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Hi all,

I am 39 now. Just started piano 3 weeks ago. My intention is to play Franz Liszt - Etude 6

Am I being realistic? I bought a digital piano (Roland F-130R). Did I make a right purchase or should I switch to an upright piano? Thanks.

You should discuss that with your teacher.

You do you have a teacher, don't you ?

If not, forget Liszt.

You are realistic since you did not specify when, it will take you a lot of time though. Don't expect to be able to play it in the next 5 years (that is with a teacher).

A Piano is in my (humble and much debated) opinion always the best choice to learn to play the Piano. (Which a digital really isn't). That said the Roland F-130R seems to be good enough to satisfy your needs for quite some time.

It's hard to say if Liszt is realistic, because that is very, very far from a beginner pianist. A lot depends on if you have a good teacher, if you are teachable (meaning you do what your teacher says), and how talented you are.

Take lessons for 2 years and you will have a better idea of approximately how long it will take to get you to the level of being able to play the Liszt piece. I say 2 years because by that point, while you still will be nowhere near ready for the Liszt, you will understand what piano study is all about and how difficult it is. This is not to be discouraging, but you help you realize what is involved. One cannot just spend a lot of time working on one piece and eventually be able to play it. A piece of music requires all of the work spent over days, weeks, and years up until that point that gives you the necessary skills to play it.

As for your piano, since you have already purchased it, stick with it for a while. As you progress, however, you will eventually need to upgrade to an acoustic grand if possible, otherwise a full high-quality upright acoustic. What you have should last you at least a year in piano, though, and you'd probably want to keep it after upgrading for silent/headphone practice at night if you are in an apartment or live with others.

Thanks for all the feedbacks. I got a teacher but I don't know whether she is good or not. I struggled to read notes on my first class. Right now, I am working on recognizing notes especially when there is a jump between lines, say from B to F. Also, on my own initiative, I am learning to play Fur Elise and working on Hanon Exercise No. 1.

I am spending more than an hour a day on this piano. Should I change it to Yamaha Clavinova CLP 545 for a better feel?

Shah-

Nothing is impossible if you really want it. Do the work needed to do. Granted, there are other factors that will come into play regarding just how long it will take to reach your goal. But if this is what you want, I say go for it! It will take however long it takes, but you will get there if you do the work.

Your Digital Piano is fine. Focus on your learning endeavor as it is the most rewarding. In my humble opinion do not bite more than you can chew as it can be very discouraging and possibly derailing your long term plans. First hand experience.

Good luck!

Most of the first year will seem a struggle as you learn the basic skills, this is just the way of things. As you progress though, your end goal of Liszt Etude No 6 may become unimportant as you hear and start to play wonderful piano repertoire of different grade levels.

The Roland F-130R appears to be a very solid entry level piano. This article specifically says " Yamaha has some serious catching up to do. Even the new $2000 (approx discount price) Yamaha Clavinova CLP525 doesn't come close, in my opinion." Whether true or not I would not advise changing DP's. Save your money for the day you treat yourself to a good acoustic.

I would discourage you from doing this "on my own". It is best to let your teacher know exactly what you are doing so she (or he) can approve it and supervise it.

Sometimes you can do more harm than good by working on something "on your own".

Good Luck

If you practice without a good teacher, than you practice in your own habits, which can be good or awful. It is easier in the long run for a teacher to correct you every week before you practice something so much the wrong way that it has become your style, becoming what some may say, "what an eccentric piano player!"

It is encouraging when a 12-year-old wants to play Liszt, but I think by the time we're 40, the statistics are not in our favor. That is not to say I would give up, but I understand that for the vast majority of people starting in our age group, few make it pass late intermediate and even fewer end up playing advanced piano with any degree of competence. The vast majority of so-called adult beginners who end up playing advance repertoire are actually re-beginners with many years of lessons as children. Those of us who really began at mid-life, well, the odds are not in our favor; that's just a fact.

Everyone faces a different set of challenges, and I don't think it is a matter of being realistic or not to want to play Liszt or any other advance repertoire like a Beethoven Sonata some day. It's just a matter of given the odds, whether you choose to be the 1% or the 99%. I think it is hard to be in the 1% bracket no matter what it is, but you never know unless you try. No one will fault you for joining the 99% statistics nor say you wasted your time.

The question is, what is the point of learning piano to begin with? Is Liszt the only music worthy of spending time on the piano. It's like climbing a mountain. Most of your time will be spent NOT at the summit. I think as long as you are driven to climb, then you must be prepared for the majority of the time spent not at the peak and what that means. Also, if you open yourself to learning, you may find a great deal of music at various levels of challenge very fulfilling to learn.

For sure the CLP-545 wooden action would provide a better feel. I do think it is a bit of wishful thinking to believe a slightly better feeling instrument would make much difference in your skill outcome, but the manufacturers exploit this wish to the max. Investing in the money instead on the right teacher is far more important.

Shah, I would also advice against doing such things in your own now. Especially Hanon, which is very easy to do the wrong way.You will most likely try to raise the speed and hit a speed wall (and possibly end up with harmful tension) simply because you do not know the right body movements yet.

It will be different later when you have advanced a little. I remember how my first two years I was always worse after the summer break and my teacher had to go back to basics. That doesn't happen so much anymore. Of course there are corrections and suggestions to pieces I work on the summer, but not so much on the basic playing. This is because we have been through the basic physical issues so many times and I don't forget them so easily anymore.

But what you will learn if you stick to it and have a good teacher is that there's always something to work on. Even if the pieces won't get so much more advanced, the playing always will. It's amazing how much finesse there is to the level of playing you see on the advanced pianists and professionals and very little of it comes naturally, it requires experience gathered on the long journey.

Anyway, Welcome I also started at later age (45) and wanted to play things that are still very far away in the future after over 3 years of regular lessons.

I also agree with the above poster that your goals and dreams will probably change on the way, because there's SO many wonderful pieces to learn in the piano literature. Mine have, the list of pieces I want to do "some day" is getting longer and longer...

Thanks. It really reminds me of golfing which started 7 years ago. Today, I still can't break 90. I took lessons from several teaching pros but could not progress. On top of that I kept changing equipments believing that they will lower my handicap. Unfortunately, negative. I concluded that talent is missing.

Back to piano lesson, I guess I need to ask the teacher for some homework. At least, I will have something to work on in between lessons. Didn't know there is body movement in playing piano. Interesting.

I was giving your post another thought which left me wondering:
Do you want to play the Liszt Paganini Etude or do you want to play the Liszt Paganini Etude just as the pianist in the video?

For me for instance, I would like to be able to play:

-Schubert as Brendel
-Schumanns Kinderszenen as Horowitz
-Bach like Gould

(Of which I am sure that I won't achieve it)
Also I really really want to play Mendelssohns Lieder ohne worte. Which actually seems way more achievable then your choice. However:

I do really like this specific record of Mendelssohns Lieder ohne worte from Ronald Brautigam ( Here itunes , here spotify and here one on youtube). He plays it as songs, really singing, beatiful.

I also have a record of Murray Perahia of the lieder ohne worte which I don't care for one bit. (Like his Bach Busoni though).

In the meantime I have come across a lot of music (suggested by my teacher) which I really enjoy playing. The whole thing about learning piano is you gotta love the music and love the process.

I would like to play Liszt Paganini Etude 6 and playing like the pianist in the video is a bonus. I am heading for a lesson today and will definitely ask for a homework

So, along the way, I will come accross nice songs. Well nice songs require nice sounds. Again, is it possible to enjoy these songs with an entry level digital piano?

Yes, it is possible. I don't see your DP as an entry level DP by the way. Entry level is a 61 key non weighted keys dp. Your DP has a enough and weighted keys. Of course there are DP's which are slightly better.

Furthermore: I would discuss with your teacher whether he thinks it is necessary to upgrade to an acoustic. I don't think it is gonna be necessary anytime soon.

For what it is worth, you might enjoy playing the piano more when playing on an acoustic. The sound is really different, it is alive. It might be less enjoyable in the beginning since the way we beginners tend to bang on the keys does not always produce the most enjoyable sound whereas dp's always sound "good". That said: DP's have their advantages but in the end they are not a Piano.

On a general note: stick to what your teacher gives you as homework. Fur Elise is way out of reach for a beginner. Three weeks is as good as not yet started.

To make things more measurable:
The Liszt Paganini etudes are ABRSM diploma level. That's beyond level 8.

ABRSM level 1 can be reached within one to two years.
The rest of the levels will take (with a lot of dedication) at least one year per level.

So, if your are talented and dedicated and have enough time, it might be possible to play it in 9 years from now.

If you play them well ... yes, absolutely !

However, if you have your heart set on buying a higher level digital piano, go ahead. If that makes you feel better about your playing, it may be worth it.

Practice, Practice, Practice .... That is the secret.

Nothing else works. You can buy stuff ... pianos, piano courses, music books, etc ... but if you do not practice enough, you will not progress regardless of your equipment.

Focus on practicing ...

Good Luck

You have said this a couple of times, and so I'm a bit concerned. Either you are not understanding your teacher, or your teacher is not giving you thing sto practice. If the latter, then I'm rightly concerned. Do ask them what you should be doing during the week, and the more specific they can be, the better. Not just "practice this song" or "learn to read notes" but specifically how should you practice, and what you should do to learn to read notes. So do ask, and hopefully you will get good answers.

It sounds like you may be falling into the trap that you did with golf - buying better equipment in hopes it will get to play better faster. Do you not like your piano? If you don't like it, then yes, get something you like that will inspire you to play. Otherwise, stick with what you have. Most pianists upgrade their instruments over time, and your journey will be no different.

Think of it this way: as you progress as a pianist, your personal tastes will become more defined. Right now, you know very little about piano to say what's good and what's not, to say what you like and don't like. In a year or two, however, you will have a much better idea of what suits your particular style. The touch and feel of a piano is a very personal choice, and no one can tell you what is better. So it is best to use what you have and wait until you feel you cannot coax the sound that you want out of your current instrument, or if you feel technically it's holding you back. Then you know it's time to upgrade.

The technical jump from ABRSM 8 and Dip ABRSM is quite more than one year of study.
in the ABRSM 8 level is a sort of "easy" advanced pieces and can be reached in 4 to 6 years depending on the talent and time available.
Dip ABSRM might take another 2 years to be reached and the paganini etudes are in LRSM... that is another year or two after it... and you have FRSM after....
The first few levels of ABSRM are graded IMHO with kids in mind, keeping the learning at a very minimum and with a very gentle progression... an adult should be able to fly up to level 4 or 5 in very little time ( a couple of years.. top)

I'm 40... the age is not on our side, you need to go as fast as possible and with the best teacher you can afford. There is not time for trial and error by yourself or pick bad habits, also, at this age, learn to don't beat yourself up if you feel you aren't learning or be too harsh... with practice it will come, but you can't get depressed.

I think when people ask if it's possible to learn such and such like Liszt Etude no. 6 they are really possibly asking two different questions.

One that we and most piano teachers usually interpret is whether it's possible and/or how long does it take to learn something as hard as that? Which is the general answer we give and also the much discussed 10,000-hour rule.

The other question is how long would it take to learn just Etude no. 6, meaning if I work on nothing else, and learn a measure at a time, and I don't care if I don't play that well, is it possible and how long?

I think the not playing so well part is a huge variable, but if you work on just this and nothing else with no piano background depending on inborn mental and physical facilities, maybe 2 years, if there is a teacher willing to teach like this, which is unlikely. However, adults I've heard that have tried this method all end up quitting and starting over with the basics. The only people who succeeded were those who had achieved at least level 6 or 7 skills as a child and only work on one piece returning as an adult, refusing to start over at level 6 or 7. Even so, those I heard needed almost a year to learn a piece like this. I personally do not have the personality to work on nothing else but one piece of music for a whole year no matter how much I liked something. If my teacher doesn't let me put something away as done in 3 months, I get very antsy. That's only happened a few times, and I've learned to work really hard in the last couple of weeks to really push it through and get it done.

8 octaves, working on a single piece, 1 bar at the time, no matter the difficulty is almost suicidal. That piece is 220 bar with any kind of difficulty. Even at 1 bar per week would be about 4 years of work and a beginner won't be able to cope with the techniques required, or the sheer endurance.
Just take a look at it.