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Hi guys, this is my first post on this forum.

I'm not new to music, i'm a guitar player, but now i would like to explore new instruments and i'd like to learn how to play piano/synth.

Considering the following points :
- No chance to have a fix placement for the keyboard (i need to remove it at the end of the session and place it back the next time). The configuration shall be easily transportable (from one room to the other)
- I would like to learn playing "general" piano so i prefer to start with graded hammer action keys.
- Budget is low.. no more than € 500-600.
- I would like to understand if a 61 keys keyboard can be enough or if it will appear "limiting" after a short time. How frequently i will need the missing 27 keys ?
- I would like also to play virtual synth, consequently an USB connection, midi out and (possibly) midi in are required.

I was thinking about buying a compact digital piano with midi interface and a Behringer BCR2000 to have VST control and to be able to connect the whole equipment to the PC. Another advantage is the built-in speakers to be used for short sessions.

Another solution may be to search for a 61 keys master keyboard to make it easier when i need to remove/replace the keyboard from its position (with graded hammer). In this case i will connect to my Marantz MCR-510 and couple of Davis speakers through optical cable.

Finally i fell in love for the Arturia Keylab 88... it may be the only reason to spend something more... This is obviusly not a compact solution and it requires to connect PC and speakers every time.. also for short exercise sessions.

Can you please suggest me some model or some alternative configuration?

Thanks in advance and sorry for this great confusion!

To answer some of your questions, you probably will want an 88 key board if you don't have one. You can get away with using them for gigging sometimes but you will want all the keys for practice. I am not familiar with the Arturia board so I can't comment on it but my recommendation for an 88 key board that matches your requirements in that price range would be the Casio PX5S. For the money you really can't get better action, it has pretty good built in sounds, is VERY light, and looks pretty good to boot. As far as portability goes while still having a good piano nothing beats the px5s until over double the price.

For piano, yes, hammer action is important. Whether or not the keys are graded is less so, but most are anyway. There are virtually no 61-key hammer action boards, or really, in your price range, anything less than 88. You're probably looking at Yamaha P35, Casio PX-150, Kawai ES-100, Kurzweil SP4-8. Kurz is most fully featured, but heavier and so not as easily transportable.

USB is not necessary, in that even the boards that only have regular MIDI connections are easily used over USB via an inexpensive adapter.

It's a great board, but well out of his specified price range.

At your price level its hard to beat a casio px150. You'll want to include a stand and bench as well. I think your other option would be the yamaha p35 but the px150's action is definitely better.

here's a professional pianist who uses a px150 as a controller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RP21DQ2zoM

My apologies, failed pretty hard on the euro to dollar math there. In that price range, especially if you're using extra speakers, I second the Casio px150. It has the same action as the px5s and if you're using software sounds will work just as well in almost every way. The only downside of the 150 is the on-board speakers are absolutely awful, don't expect to use them for much.

It's worth it to step up to the px350 for hook up flexibility and a little bit better speakers.
The px5s is $1000.

As well as hookup flexibility ("Line In", "Line Out", real MIDI In/Out as well as MIDI-over-USB), the PX-350 has hundreds of built-in sounds. It is _not_ a "synth" -- there is limited control over the sound generator.

It would be a good choice, if it's within the budget.

If the OP intends to rely on virtual instruments, the PX-150 would be OK. But it only has MIDI-over-USB, and a headphone jack.

Note that "very light" means around 25 pounds. You can't make an 88-key, _weighted_ keyboard much lighter, it seems.

. Charles

Thanks to you all guys! Very helpful suggestions. I checked the prices of many pianos suggested in your previous post on the website of a famous european seller.

Casio PX-5S (€ 888,00)
Kurzweil SP4-8 (€ 699,00)
Casio PX-150 (€ 598,00)
Casio PX-350 (€ 744,00)
Kawai ES-100 (€ 649,00)

Considering that i will need to include also the knob controller (€ 130,00), the complete equipment becomes more expensive than what i've foreseen at the beginning. However i understood that for a good practice 88 keys are essential like the hammer action (graded is better but avoidable). Usb is replaceble by a cheap midi to usb adaptor. Am i right ?

Unfortunately i cannot place a fixed stand and chair. I will use a foldable one.

Actually i'm thinking about a little sacrifice for a Kawai ES-100 + Behringer BCR2000... what do you think about this combination ? (About 800,00 with foldable stand)

The es100 is a great board and you will likely be very happy with it. I would suggest playing it a bit as well as the 150 if at all possible before you make a decision though. For less money you could end up liking the Casio more.

As mentioned, ES100 is nice as a stand alone DP. As a controller for a computer, not so much. Doesn't have Line Outs either.
Best advice, get the PX5s and hook it up to your stereo for starters. Then connect the USB to your computer and get that going.
The Casio's have a case that is form fitting too. Easy to wrap up and lean against the wall in the other room. No other board makes it that easy.

I agree with emenelton. The Kawai is a bit better in its action than the Privias (not by that much IMO), however the lack of connections really make it limited in terms of use. If you want to connect, use, and modify virtual instruments, having more connections and options is always a plus. Basically the reason why I myself chose a PX-350 over the ES100. I just couldn't deal with the fact that there was no line out in a digital piano. I know I could use the headphone jacks, but it became a deal breaker for me.

The 350 has internal speakers which is a big plus for practicing. For a person that wants to learn piano it's a really good choice.

The moment you start talking about computer control, the px5s has a special place in more ways than one in Casio's line.

I use mine for piano only how-ever, it is really something else.

Can you explain me why you consider the PX5S as a better choice talking about computer control ?

Between 150 and 350 speaker is the only main difference ?

The px5s has 6 sliders and 4 knobs that can control your computer through usb.
If you look at Giancarlo's post he details some of the reason's he choose the 350 over the ES100. The same differences exist with the 150 except the 100 has better built in speakers than either Casio.

The knobs and faders can be useful for controlling virtual instruments, however if you're primarily playing a software piano, I doubt there is a strong need to make adjustments in real time.

I expect the majority of players initially change settings with the mouse, then, after they've found the sound they're looking for, concentrate on actually playing.

Kind regards,
James
x

Main differences:

1. PX-350 has "Line In", stereo "Line Out", MIDI In / MIDI Out jacks.

2. PX-350 has auto-accompaniment ("chord following") feature,
and lots of built-in accompaniment styles. Also many rhythm patterns. Also has "auto-harmonization" for melody lines.

3. PX-350 has (I think) over 200 built-in tones, including full "General MIDI" set. PX-150: 18 tones.

The keyboard mechanism, and basic "grand piano" sounds, are the same for both PX-150 and PX-350.

If you only want to play piano, the PX-150 is OK. If you want a more flexible instrument, the PX-350 is a better choice.

. Charles

I'll add my opinion to the chorus suggesting that the Casio PX-350 probably meets your stated needs best (while remaining in your price range). It has a surprisingly good action (considering the low cost and weight of the board) and very acceptable sounds. It has the connections that let you run it to PA speakers, or connect to a computer to run virtual instruments for better sounds, or other midi instruments. It has built in accompaniment features and rhythm patterns to play along with. it has a built in multi track sequencer. It's an excellent board to learn on, and it's sophisticated enough to grow with you as you do so. Were I in your shoes, it would be at the top of my list of boards to check out.

Guys, I think that PX-350 is actually at the top of my list!



With the Line In, can i work as follows ?

PX-350 Midi Out --> Behringer BCR2000 Midi In
Behringer BCR2000 USB --> Computer USB (Running VST)
Computer Line Out --> PX-350 Line In
PX-350 Speaker --> WONDERFUL SYNTHESIZER SOUND TO MY HEAD ?

The only doubt I have is related to the downsides listed in this post :
https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...son_of_Portable_Digital.html#Post2167459

In particular "Note Sample : 34 strecth groups" and "Built In Speakers : Bad". What do you think about those "defects" ?

Thanks to all!

just go direct from px350 to computer withh the usb and bypass the unnecesary midi converter. the piano already has one! for pure midi controller the px150 doesn't have unnecessary stuff. Also for limited px150 sound set you can use headphone out to go direct to an amp although you lose the onboard speakers.