Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2340439 - 10/23/14 02:13 AM Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms.
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1315
Other than that, I have no idea what to do or how to fix big things or how to tweak the system to get a better sound. I tried to play around with the controls in Ivory, but I'm not sure what most of it really means so I largely left it all alone.

Oh, I did use the VPC1's built-in velocity curves for Ivory.

Other than that, and after getting Ivory to sound at all, I really didn't do much but sit down and try to play it right through like it wasn't a computer. It took me a bit to get used to the keyboard; it's really distracting watching the notes go by, and of course it isn't my acoustic. It sort of ends better than it starts (I just got this thing yesterday and this is the first full length piece I've tried to play, not to mention the fact that I am not yet done with this piece), but it still sounds better on a piano. However, a lot of it is probably due to the player being rather freaked out by the whole new medium.

There were a few wrong notes here and there, which was actually good news because it made me go in and figure out how to fix 'em.

That was oddly satisfying.

I felt like god.

And it felt just a little bit wrong. Fortunately, there weren't more than a handful of wrong notes; just a few isolated hiccups here and there.

So, my first foray into midi: So much fun! Can't wait to really take it for a spin and figure out what I can do with it, how I can improve the sound, and what other tools are at my disposal.

Soundcloud: Brahms, Intermezzo Op. 118, No. 2

Youtube:

_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
The Right Mic Makes all the Difference. Piano Mics at Sweetwater

Click Here


#2340450 - 10/23/14 03:07 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1379
Loc: uk south
Sounds lovely to me. You don't need to watch the display spewing out data. Of course it'll all seem a little strange at the outset but judging by your sound I've no doubt you'll quickly get used to it.

We'll all benefit by your feedback and thoughts on how the timbre/feel of the instrument should change.

How do you find the let-off simulation when playing pp/ppp?

Top
#2340451 - 10/23/14 03:10 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1315
There doesn't appear to be a way to fail to make the note sound at all at ppp. Is that something I can change? Because it's not natural feeling to me!
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
#2340453 - 10/23/14 03:13 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1379
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
There doesn't appear to be a way to fail to make the note sound at all at ppp. Is that something I can change? Because it's not natural feeling to me!


Go into the 'session' tab and play around with the 'silent key vel' setting. I think it defaults to 0, but if you set it to, say, 30, you'll quickly see how to optimise it for yourself.

Top
#2340460 - 10/23/14 03:38 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1315
Cool, will do. I do like being able to play extremely delicately, but not if I can't feasibly produce it on an acoustic. Fortunately, I don't think any of the key strikes in the Brahms dropped below where I would fail to sound the note at all on my acoustic.

Other than that, I found it reasonably authentic feeling! There's a weird mid-treble thing that gets a bit digital sounding to me, but I can live with that. It also kind of doesn't show quite as much out from under big romantic pedal wash, so I guess I'll stick with this type of repertoire for a while, haha.

It also kind of lessened a tad when I increased the "release" setting. Still, there's something in there I can't quite identify that sticks out to me and brings me away from feeling like I'm playing a piano.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
#2340463 - 10/23/14 03:47 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1379
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Still, there's something in there I can't quite identify that sticks out to me and brings me away from feeling like I'm playing a piano.


Well, we're all ears. You've a grand piano so if you can find any way to pin down the differences, that could help us all get closer to an ideal. It's obviously always going to lack something.

I can't remember what you said you were monitoring through - I think it was decent headphones?

Top
#2340464 - 10/23/14 03:49 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1315
Sony MDR-MA900 over the ear headphones.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
#2340466 - 10/23/14 03:56 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1379
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Sony MDR-MA900 over the ear headphones.


I don't know them but at their price point I'd expect them to be very faithful. I was wondering about your metallic sound - I suffered that much more with monitors than headphones but, for sure, the timbre is what it is. It might be worth your while playing around with the EQ at some point to see if you can shape it a little. Not always fruitful, I'm afraid...

edit; I see you said 'digital', not metallic. That's going to be even more intractable...


Edited by dire tonic (10/23/14 03:58 AM)

Top
#2340467 - 10/23/14 04:11 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9367
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Sounds lovely to me too! wink

Enjoy feeling like a God, but not too much...

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2340485 - 10/23/14 06:54 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1751
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
I felt like god.


For once, and this IS rare, the word awesome would seem to be truly appropriate.

I like your version of this intermezzo a lot. Very warm - I got some of the meanings of the music I didn't get from Dmitri Alexeev's version.....and he's pretty good smile

You can probably pump up the pedal a bit - nearly everyone who comes from acoustic to digital finds the sustain pedal less generous, regardless of which DP or VST you're using.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

Top
#2340553 - 10/23/14 11:03 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
de cajon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/13
Posts: 187
Loc: London, UK
I do find that the headphones make a surprising amount of difference. The ones that came with my Yamaha piano (HPH-200P) are great. Some good quality Sony ones I also have (MDR-7506) don't sound as nice. They are both over the ear.
_________________________
Yamaha C3X SH

Top
#2340570 - 10/23/14 11:45 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: de cajon]
Alexander Borro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 50
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: de cajon
I do find that the headphones make a surprising amount of difference. The ones that came with my Yamaha piano (HPH-200P) are great. Some good quality Sony ones I also have (MDR-7506) don't sound as nice. They are both over the ear.


That's interesting. Would you say it is due to the fact that the yamahas you have are open back and it is due to sound staging and more spacious sound, or due to other tonal qualities ?

In any case sounds like twosnowflakes bought a very decent set. I also had the sony MDR-7506 but they broke just before I got my copy of the American D ( darn, such bad luck ). Was just thinking about getting them again, since I always liked them, but you have me thinking.

Now I am a total beginner on top so do not have the honed ears that you will have out there , but I too identify something in the treble range, particularly second C from middle and up a few notes sound rather harsh on this piano, almost distorted ( not caused by clipping or anything) and have been unable to dial it out, but at the moment I am using my old fallback headphones sony XBR-300, not very flat performance and bass boosted, I suspect they have a bearing on this, they are very treble thin anyway have that nasal sound. Surprisingly, from the midrange down into the bass they took me by surprise a little bit, for cheap cans sounding rather good in that mid range to bass department with the American D.

In any case. I am in the market for something new myself as well. budget around US 200 dollars. Will pop into town and listen to a few. I am strongly considering a set of open back ( sound leakage is not a problem for me )

Sorry for the off-topic perhaps, though it may be of related interest how to get the best out of this piano VST. smile

Top
#2340591 - 10/23/14 12:44 PM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1393
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:

I felt like god.


Just don't get confused -- _feeling like God_ doesn't mean that you _are_ God.<g>

A suggestion:

. . . Put the computer behind you when you play.

You want to concentrate on the sound you're making, not on the notes and MIDI velocities.

A counter-argument:

There's a story about Les Paul, told by (I think) his son. His playing was really smooth, and he made good use of all the (limited) dynamic range of his recording gear.

His son was in the studio one day, and asked:

. . . Dad, how do you manage to play so evenly?

and dad said:

. . . I watch the VU meter!

. Charles

PS -- a "VU" meter is an ancient analog device that shows the recording level.

Top
#2340612 - 10/23/14 01:51 PM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1098
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Cool, will do. I do like being able to play extremely delicately, but not if I can't feasibly produce it on an acoustic. Fortunately, I don't think any of the key strikes in the Brahms dropped below where I would fail to sound the note at all on my acoustic.

Other than that, I found it reasonably authentic feeling! There's a weird mid-treble thing that gets a bit digital sounding to me, but I can live with that. It also kind of doesn't show quite as much out from under big romantic pedal wash, so I guess I'll stick with this type of repertoire for a while, haha.

It also kind of lessened a tad when I increased the "release" setting. Still, there's something in there I can't quite identify that sticks out to me and brings me away from feeling like I'm playing a piano.


You will get there and probably soon based on your rapid progress. You are describing the same things that bothered me. And while the default settings sound quite nice there are a few wrinkles that need to be ironed out.

The metallic sound around mid-range is one of the harder parts to clean up. Some combination of more sustain, change in listener perspective and EQ/environment will help to almost eliminate it. I can't help you more specifically right now because I only have a few moments for this post.

The silent key is important for the reasons you mentioned. When you look at the graph you will see that the numbers on the x/horizontal axis will correspond with your silent key value. You want the curve to be closer to pp on the y/vertical at the intersection of your silent key value. I'm not really sure what mine looks like because I'm not at home. But something like that, if it even made sense.

The big romantic pedal wash, if I understand correctly, is another thing that will help it sound more authentic. You don't want it to sound too clean and you want there to be a great deal of variability to your playing. It should be somewhat difficult to tame, just like an acoustic. The same settings I mentioned above for reducing metallic sound will help in this regard.

I barely got to listen to your recording but it sounds wonderful. I will try to listen later.

Top
#2340706 - 10/23/14 06:07 PM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 851
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Sounds good! I like a lot of what you're doing with the Brahms.

With God like power comes God level responsibility. wink
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

Top
#2341093 - Yesterday at 04:15 PM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: Alexander Borro]
de cajon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/13
Posts: 187
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: Alexander Borro
Originally Posted By: de cajon
I do find that the headphones make a surprising amount of difference. The ones that came with my Yamaha piano (HPH-200P) are great. Some good quality Sony ones I also have (MDR-7506) don't sound as nice. They are both over the ear.


That's interesting. Would you say it is due to the fact that the yamahas you have are open back and it is due to sound staging and more spacious sound, or due to other tonal qualities ?


I'm not much good at describing that kind of thing (and my hearing isn't up to par either). I just know they are surprisingly different. I did just go and try them both again. I'd say the Yamaha ones are "richer"; perhaps that means a better bass (to my ears).

I think you may be right: maybe the open back is producing a significant part of the difference. I hadn't even fully realized that they were open and the Sony ones closed.
_________________________
Yamaha C3X SH

Top
#2341287 - Today at 09:39 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: Pathbreaker]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1315
Originally Posted By: Pathbreaker
Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
Cool, will do. I do like being able to play extremely delicately, but not if I can't feasibly produce it on an acoustic. Fortunately, I don't think any of the key strikes in the Brahms dropped below where I would fail to sound the note at all on my acoustic.

Other than that, I found it reasonably authentic feeling! There's a weird mid-treble thing that gets a bit digital sounding to me, but I can live with that. It also kind of doesn't show quite as much out from under big romantic pedal wash, so I guess I'll stick with this type of repertoire for a while, haha.

It also kind of lessened a tad when I increased the "release" setting. Still, there's something in there I can't quite identify that sticks out to me and brings me away from feeling like I'm playing a piano.


You will get there and probably soon based on your rapid progress. You are describing the same things that bothered me. And while the default settings sound quite nice there are a few wrinkles that need to be ironed out.

The metallic sound around mid-range is one of the harder parts to clean up. Some combination of more sustain, change in listener perspective and EQ/environment will help to almost eliminate it. I can't help you more specifically right now because I only have a few moments for this post.

The silent key is important for the reasons you mentioned. When you look at the graph you will see that the numbers on the x/horizontal axis will correspond with your silent key value. You want the curve to be closer to pp on the y/vertical at the intersection of your silent key value. I'm not really sure what mine looks like because I'm not at home. But something like that, if it even made sense.

The big romantic pedal wash, if I understand correctly, is another thing that will help it sound more authentic. You don't want it to sound too clean and you want there to be a great deal of variability to your playing. It should be somewhat difficult to tame, just like an acoustic. The same settings I mentioned above for reducing metallic sound will help in this regard.

I barely got to listen to your recording but it sounds wonderful. I will try to listen later.


Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely take any detailed setting advice you've got if you want to expand your recommendation!
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
#2341290 - Today at 09:41 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: de cajon]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1315
Originally Posted By: de cajon
Originally Posted By: Alexander Borro
Originally Posted By: de cajon
I do find that the headphones make a surprising amount of difference. The ones that came with my Yamaha piano (HPH-200P) are great. Some good quality Sony ones I also have (MDR-7506) don't sound as nice. They are both over the ear.


That's interesting. Would you say it is due to the fact that the yamahas you have are open back and it is due to sound staging and more spacious sound, or due to other tonal qualities ?


I'm not much good at describing that kind of thing (and my hearing isn't up to par either). I just know they are surprisingly different. I did just go and try them both again. I'd say the Yamaha ones are "richer"; perhaps that means a better bass (to my ears).

I think you may be right: maybe the open back is producing a significant part of the difference. I hadn't even fully realized that they were open and the Sony ones closed.


Mine are open-back. Very comfortable and seem to contribute to the feeling like I'm listening to something just around me rather than something being pumped into my ears, if that makes sense.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

Top
#2341293 - Today at 10:14 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
ColinDS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 19
Very nice playing. I do miss the subtle shading of 1/8 and 1/4 pedaling that I can obtain on my acoustic grand.

Top
#2341299 - Today at 10:43 AM Re: Got the VPC1! Hooked up the Ivory! Played Brahms. [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Chrisl Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/14
Posts: 193
Loc: Chicago, IL
Is adjusting the indiv. keys a Ivory or VPC function? I agree, the middle C position is kinda metallic sounding, esp. compared to the bass.
_________________________
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
8 Live Ragtime Piano Players on the Cape!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha UX vs WX
by goldmund
31 minutes 57 seconds ago
Need help with chords
by Shirz
Today at 07:52 AM
Which are the best forums for piano technicians and DIYers?
by Withindale
Today at 03:17 AM
Prelude
by noobpianist90
Today at 01:55 AM
Red Striped Screws and Fancy Nuts
by chernobieff
Yesterday at 11:57 PM
Who's Online
127 registered (anotherscott, anamnesis, 36251, ando, 33 invisible), 1422 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76651 Members
42 Forums
158488 Topics
2327517 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission