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What would it take to gain an equivalent amount of instruction, training and playing experience as if one had majored in piano performance? To be clear, this is purely an academic question. I have neither the time nor money to pursue it myself at my age. Just curious as to the time wasted on things outside of the actual musical training.

I personally believe the hardest component to recreate would be the pressure of making the grade or wasting the college tuition money.

I went with the same topic with my teacher, that eventually will be my college professor.
there are some aspect that do make the difference.

1) the amount of time that you are suppose to practice on a daily basis... his golden rule is 4 to 6 hours.
2) the amount and kind of repertoire that you will learn... not everything of your choice but what help you to improve.
3) the environment and the networking. you will play in ensembles, you will accompany singers, other soloist.
4) you will learn about other aspect of music, like theory, ear training, history on a predetermined schedule.

the bottom line is that you will go all in and you have to keep the pace, instead of keeping your own pace in private lessons.

at the end of the 4 years, you will have anywhere from 6000 to 8000 hours of practice, if you keep going for the master you will have another 3 to 4000 hour under the belt...
a motivated amateur with a day job can practice 1 to 1,5 hour every day... that makes 350 to 500 hours per year...

the money part is the one where the college IMHO is cheaper.
to accumulate 8000 hours of playing as amateur with a college level teacher will require about 16 to 20 years of lessons.... with 50 lesson per year at an average of 100$... you do the math... is 80,000 to 100,000$ in lessons...

I have toyed with this idea myself. I also asked my teacher to help me devise a plan to get to the standard of playing of a BA degree graduate. She was very supportive, and will help me try. However, a grade 8 ABRSM or 10 RCM standard is the entry level for a BA degree, and I am still a long way from that standard, at about ABRSM 6. Even with 3-4 hours practice a day, it will probably be two to three years before I have achieved Grade 8 ABRSM. Still, it is a nice dream to be able to sit down and learn a Beethoven Sonata confidently, to understand music in depth, to play with confidence and finesse. And, it is all about enjoying the journey!

+1

I spent some time in my college's music department, many years ago.

There's _no way_ that you could duplicate the breadth, and depth, of a college music major's education, just by studying piano on your own with a teacher.

. CHarles

PS -- I like the "practice-hours equivalent" computation!

As a former university professor (a post-academic), Charles' comment is right to the heart of the matter. There's much, much more to studying in a university or a conservatory than "just" lessons with a great teacher. Lessons with a great teacher are the centre of the experience, of course. But they're one piece of the experience at best.

Classes, performance opportunities, gigs, concerts, friends and acqaintances, the opportunity to double-major and take classes at related institutions–that's all part of the experience for music majors. In terms of context–a lot of the learning in university music program happens when two pianists step outside of the practice room and compare notes and talk about what they're working on–the why and the how of it all. Very literally, it's a 24-hour immersive experience where learning and knowledge come from a million different sources. A single music instructor, no matter now well meaning or knowledgable, simply can't offer all of that.

But–a great teacher can definitely help a student to sort through goals, options, and choices.

Ok, I do understand everything you said and I completely agree. But, my question was never intended to suggest that you would reach that level with just 1 private instructor. In my mind I had envisioned that you would probably have 3 or 4 different private teachers, each focusing on a different aspect of your music education.

For example, a teacher for classical technique, one for theory, one for sight singing/ear training and one for jazz/pop etc...

Playing opportunities for gigs, concerts, collaborations, etc...are everywhere if you are willing to look for them.

To restate the question: What lengths would one have to go to in order to simulate, as closely as is possible, a university degree in piano performance through those resources available in or near a reasonably sized city? Resources that would include access to excellent private teachers of various styles of piano and voice training, and enough population to allow for the networking of the individual musician into the local music scene.

Wow, I didn't realize you had such a goal! I think ABRSM 8 or RCM 9 will be hard enough for me. Both RCM 9 and 10 would take many years and harmony exams are hard. I think BA level equivalent would be impossible. Then there is the aging problem. The older you get, the more practicing hours you need to equal the 1-hour of an 18-year-old. I think if I was super ambitious, I would go for ABRSM Diploma or RCM ARCT level and call it a day. I'm certainly not aiming for those myself but I would track toward that if I had enough productive years left. I don't know your age, but if you're in your 30's then you may still have time. My train has left the station, unfortunately.

Well, you've modified and clarified you're original question quite a bit. It's now very different in scope from what you posted originally. Why not just look at find a few music programs that have what you want and then see what it would take to re-create them privately on your own in the locales of your choice?

Upon re-reading my response from earlier, I find it quite discouraging in tone. That was not my intent. I was simply surprised, and personalized it too much as the same goal is so hopelessly out of reach for me, but my post came out sounding the wrong way. Apologies.

I never meant for the original question to imply a single teacher. I guess when I said "what would it take" I thought I was implying all the variables involved in the question as I restated it. Sometimes vagueness in the question opens the doors for a flood of possibilities in the responses, sometimes it doesn't. This was just one of those times when it did not...lol.

Anyway, for me, it is not in the cards to pursue any of the courses we discuss. I long ago graduated from college and am knee deep in the profession I have chosen. But in my job (teacher/coach) opportunities have been presented to get involved in the development of some new (to us) music programs which will expand the course offerings in the music department. Just looking for practical advice to students who may also be pursuing other careers but may also love piano or guitar or some other instrument.

I just thought it was an intruiging topic. Similar, I suppose, to the question of how long would it take engineers to attain the engineering skills if they didn't have to waste time studying history and psychology, etc....

No apologies needed! It is a lofty goal. I am far older than 30's, at 62, but I played as a child and came back as an adult in 20007. I have one advantage over some here, in that I am retired and have many hours to devote to piano. I guess I simply believe in aiming high and not putting limits on myself. Will I get to B or Music standard? Who knows, but I am enjoying every minute at the piano in the meantime!

One can always supplement study at a local Jr college or university extension program . And of course there is the Julliard evening division!

http://catalog.juilliard.edu/content.php?catoid=21&navoid=2284

The OP poses an interesting idea and a good teacher could come up with a curriculum. But there are so many variables. Schools and programs and students are not all alike. We all know of individuals who are graduates of certain programs and wonder how it could be, as well as the persons with no credentials who are quite impressive. Resources are important but also a person's self-discipline (and talent.....sigh!).


SwissMS,

Your goal is very inspiring. I'm similar in age and background and have just retired. I'm wondering how much I'll learn. I feel I'm a faster, smarter learner now than when I was younger-- for instance as a teenager there were always so many "issues." I'm much more efficient now. The biggest problem now is that I injure myself if I'm not careful. I just won't try to play big stretches or anything that hurts. I'm hoping to play intermediate and early advanced music musically, become a fair sight-reader of intermediate music, and just have a better all-around knowledge of theory and musical styles/history (those parts seem easier than the playing!)

Best wishes with your goal!