Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum online piano courses - anyone have any experience with them?

Full disclosure - I'm a piano teacher, and of course think there is no substitute for having lessons from a flesh and blood teacher, but i can also see it might be hard for someone who works full time, has children, etc to make the financial and time commitment to weekly lessons.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with an online course, and how it worked out for you. If you have youtube video of you playing I'd be curious to see also. If not, just the pros and cons of the course, what the course was, and how long you've stuck with it. Thanks in advance

Beth, do you mean those courses where people watch a set of videos, or are you including Skype lessons where there is personal interaction between student and teacher?

I'd be interested in thoughts on Skype lessons as well, but I'm particularly interested in how people go with courses where they aren't getting personal feedback at all. Either using YouTube courses, dvd lessons or other online courses.

I have had 3 instructors:

1) At a store in a mall - for just $20 you got a lecture every Saturday and a 1/2 hr. tutorial once a week - for 6 weeks. But, it was a thinly veiled attempt to sell you an organ. They taught the basics, but tried to wire you into the features of their organs (eg one-key chording, drum machine, etc.).

2) eMedia Piano and Keyboard Method V3. When I started this I was still working and traveling a lot. So I would take a 25 key portable in my suitcase and do my practising and lessons in the hotel. The program is very well thought out and provides feedback in numerous ways.
Pros:
- portability
- schedule flexibility
- good interaction with virtual instructor and on-screen feedback

Cons:
- requires at least intermediate computer skills to set-up and use (which I have - so not an issue for me)
- some feedback was misleading; I often received the feedback "there were some problems with note durations" but no indication of where in the piece the problem(s) occurred.

3) I had a live instructor come to our house twice a month over this last summer.
Pros:
- better feedback on hand position, pedaling, fingering; i.e. all the things that require visual confirmation by the instructor
Cons:
- difficult to schedule (this is a long story - suffice to say it was a challenge for both of us)
- inflexible methodology; e.g. practise scales because Royal Conservatory says so. I never plan to take an exam so this explanation left me wondering.

I could go on - but that gives you a feel for one person's experience.

Also, here is a video of my playing after instructor #2 above.
https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2185731/Re:_Ecco_Fatto_Café_–_post_.html#Post2185731


Jake

Thanks Jake. I just took a look at your video. You're going well, but I think your position at the keyboard could be improved. I don't ever see pianists from the front when they're playing, so it's hard to say, but it looked like your wrists were at an uncomfortable angle. I'm thinking it might have something to do with your seating. Perhaps you aren't quite far enough back? Or at the right height? Your forearms should be parallel to the floor when you play, and elbows free and slightly in front of your body. Also if you could get a bench without a back I think it would really help you. You're supposed to sit on the front half of the bench with your body weight going into your feet so your arms and upper body are completely free. If that's not possible though, just try sitting a little bit further away from the keyboard, lowering your computer chair if it's adjustable, and see if it is more comfortable for you. Thanks very much for your detailed reply, I'm glad I got at least one!

FYI - I got a proper bench shortly after that video was made. Also, over the summer I was playing on my wife's upright piano, which has a bench (although it is not adjustable height).

All along I have paced my purchases based on whether I was still interested and still wanted to continue. The bench was the latest addition. So far (2 years) I'm still practicing 5 out of 7 days and learning new things.

The biggest hurdle for me is that we go south for 3 to 5 months every winter. In my home town there are only 2 or 3 instructors within 100 km radius, and they all prefer school kids, and they base their schedules on the school calendar. Meanwhile, in winter in AZ, I have tried responding to ads on Craigslist, but they don't write back (perhaps because it would be for a limited duration).

Oh good! Thought I'd mention it just in case, since seating is something a lot of people don't think too much about.

If you mention that you can come during the day the teachers might be a bit more interested? At the start of their afternoon session, or end of a morning session? A lot of teachers (myself included) are wary of adult students because they usually don't last long or practice much compared to averages for children. If you mention you've been at it for 2 years and practice 5 days a week (well done by the way, that's amazing!) then they may be more receptive.

They may also not reply because there are scams going around where people send an email to a piano teacher asking to teach say, 10 lessons while they're on holidays, then they pay, ask for a refund, and the money bounces and they're left out of pocket. That might not be how it works exactly, but it's something like that. Anyway, because of those a lot of piano teachers are wary of any requests for a specific period of lessons from someone out of town.

Another option might be skype? More and more teachers are doing that these days. You might even be able to find a skype teacher who prefers adults. They're rare but they're out there!

surprises me to read this, I thought all adults were as motivated as me. Seems not to be the case.

For the price, I have been impressed with the Emedia software. BTW to see the problem notes there is a toggle you use. I just wanted to learn more about music in general and thought getting an inexpensive key board (Yamaha P105) and such software would be perfect for an old retired guy like me.

If, and of course this is a big If, you are willing to work every day for at least 45 to 60 minutes, within a year you will be reading music and progressing well (It took me took 2 years to finish every lesson). I can read music and know enough to figure out fingerings for most music that I want to know as well as, according to my wife, sound "reasonable".

I bought the second portion of this software that is significantly more advanced. I learn well from books and online instruction (I've taught about 75 graduate levels classes online), and think for certain people this learning tool is a good one. It appears they have an instructors version, and I can see how this software would work well as a "virtual" class room.

My goal is not to play in a great hall, but just for myself and it worked for me. I have my P105 hooked up to a DAW that has a complete orchestra so I can use the key board to play any instrument now:). I think instructors who don't look at the synergy of this type of tool are missing a great opportunity to enhance their knowledge delivery to their students IMHO.

The Fundamental Keys (fundamentalkeys.com) online course is pretty well done. The courseware is produced by a practicing teacher of classical music and she creates videos to demonstrate and discuss the material in the workbook material. She is presently in the process of reworking her entire course but should be ready to go by the new year.
I would consider her course as the next best thing to a live teacher sitting right beside you.

She is also available for personal lessons through Skype and or personal feedback via videos, for an additional fee, of course.

I haven't read that exact opinion for years. There are motivated adults who practice and the rest. And then there are those who aren't, and don't. the children are forced to practice by their parents, otherwise they might slack off too.

When I first started with piano, there was no way for me to afford piano lessons. The only logical way was to start learning the basics from resources found on the internet and youtube. Countless hours to familiarize myself with notes and how to locate them on piano, reading music and all that basic stuff.

I must say, for the very basic stuff the internet has been invaluable asset and I have learned a lot. But when you want to learn the correct posture, correct way to move your hand and fingers, correct fingering with classical pieces, I would say a live teacher would be needed. There is only so far one can go with recorded online lessons.

The amount of different material is tremendous and one can get really anxious of trying to grasp everything available online and not getting anything out of them due to the overdoing it. In my opinion, it is vital to find one resource that you feel comfortable with and stick to that.

As a new thing, skype lessons are getting popular and I don't wonder why. Now I can get a good piano teacher all the way from US while I'm here in Finland. It kind of resembles piano teacher IRL, because you are in the piano anyway and heshe is sitting next to you (in this instance, inside your computer/tablet screen).

Hello Beth,

before deciding to answer to this, I checked out a few of your posts, and your YouTube channel. You seem like a sincere person, and kudos for posting videos for the rest of us to learn from.

I'm an adult student, just turned 60. I would also be a teacher's worst nightmare, which is the main reason I don't have one All the things I have seen mentioned by teachers about adult students: they only want to play their own choices, they don't listen to advice, they don't practice the things I give them to practice, they can't keep scheduled appointments, they get bored with lessons.... oh that's me to a teeth.

I work from home, so in dead periods when the phone isn't ringing, I have time to practice my piano (standing 3 feet from my computer), but I can't ever leave during the day (to go have a lesson), nor can I have anybody come here to teach, as I have to do my work when the phone rings. Peace and quiet for me to get serious about playing comes between 10pm and 2am - don't think I can get anybody to teach those hours. Apart from that and the other reasons above, I'm just a self-taught kind of person. I like doing things that way.

I have always wanted to play, but never really had the time. Never had any lessons. Did sing in the choir at school, but lost my voice as a teenager (some sort of vocal cord damage), so that was the end of that.

Then in July of 2009, I started seeing all kinds of online information on 'how to play the piano', stumbled upon an online keyboard (!) you could play on and had some fun with that. When my husband saw my joy in being able to 'klimper' a little bit, he suggested we go look in a music store. Not wanting to spend a fortune on what might just be a passing craze, I ended up with a Yamaha Keyboard, 61 keys.

Started searching for 'the right thing' to learn from on the internet, and found the lessons of Andrew Furmanczyk (http://howtoplaypiano.ca/). No cost, nothing required, except an honest will to watch and learn. That impressed me. Andrew is young and has a style that an oldie needs to get used to at first, but he is brilliant, and if you listen, you will learn - a lot. And I did watch and listen, for hours on end.

Andrew does not give you 'homework', it's up to you to set you practice schedule and find your own sheets to work with. So on to places like 8notes, GmajorMusicTheory, and the like, in search of sheets. The beginners sheets available are often incredibly childish and/or boring, so ended up making a lot of my own, of whatever music I like and happened to feel like playing. I was amazed at how much you can learn if you put your mind to it.

I don't usually record what I play, but exactly 1 month after starting, I made a little film of what I had accomplished, to send to some friends in the States (we had moved to Germany). As you seem genuinely interested in what can be learned, and I feel like striking a blow for online learning, I uploaded it for this post: http://www.piano.christrup.net/PIANO/2009%2008%2002%20PIANO.wmv (sorry, it's a bit big)
For someone who didn't know a thing about sheet music or playing a month earlier, not too shabby.

This of course was 5 years ago. I wish I could tell you I am now capable of concert playing, but I'm not. Life happens, and piano playing had to take a back seat. I have now started again, sadly to find that I must almost start from scratch, but that's ok, as long as I have fun with it, and that I certainly do.

This is probably one of the things that must drive teachers nuts, adult students that have priorities quite different from that of children, and usually no ambitions other than to please themselves.

Anyway, my take on pro's:
- flexibility, play when and however much you like
- you're on your own, nobody to dictate what to do (I happen to like that)
- you play what you like, without anybody rolling their eyes in despair

and con's:
- you're on your own, nobody to guide you (some people prefer that)
- risk of forming bad habits in playing
- if you get stuck with a problem, who do you ask?
(which is why we turn to forums)

Yes, I'm limited to my husbands 'that was nice dear' in way of constructive criticism. But the fact that the piece I couldn't play at all last week I now can play, is progress report enough for me.

The fact that I 'fell off' the piano for a while, had nothing to do with the course being 'online'. And I'm now returning to it with glee.

Had to return...
Just had a thorough listen to your playlist of Alfred's Adult... I did so, because I've been hearing (reading) about this as being used a lot. And I was thinking, maybe I'm missing out on something here....

Let me first of all say: I really admire the fact that you so freely hand out of your knowledge (basically shooting yourself in the foot, as this is your livelihood - and not a very good (financially) one you state (yes, went to your website). I think you're a great person, and probably a good teacher.

Now back to Alfred. I listened to most of it, well every 2nd or 3rd or so, to see what's in there, and the progression. God Almighty! Apart from really liking how you played the little Harp Song, it was painful. And this is called ADULT material? This is what I was talking about up in the previous post. If I had had to take lessons from this material, I would have quit within the week!

Every now and again I feel that I probably should 'hunker down' and practice from some 'official' lesson book, that there's probably some benefit to be had from that. Then I turn to Johannes Rövenstrunck's 'Music for piano education'. And it's boring the living daylights out of me. I'm sure it's good for me, in fact I know it is, but oh my... so incredibly hard to stick with for any length of time.

Is it impossible to make 'educational' scores from misc music that adult ears can stand for more than 5 minutes? I was fed up with Twinkle-Twinkle, Mary Had a little lamb, London Tower, and what else is served up as 'starting out' sheets, in a matter of hours. Whereas I'll happily practice Bachs' Jesu Bleibet..., Tchaikowsky's Swan Lake (small excerpt), Procol Harum's Whiter shade of Pale, Scales and Arpeggios from Disney's Aristocats (that ought to please a teacher), Waldteufel's Skaters Waltz, Beatles' Michelle, a bunch of danish stuff you wouldn't recognize (the list goes on and on) for hours, days and weeks, measure by measure, and never tire of it. Isn't motivation the most important thing for a student??

You see now why I said I'm a teachers nightmare? I would insist on playing what I like to hear, or not play at all. That said, I also play a lot of scales for warm up and such. I really do want to learn things and get better. I just has to be on my own premises.

I know that for centuries learning to play piano was something little children did, and thus the material was made for them. And I imagine a teacher's education was directed towards teaching children. But the world is changing. People of mature years are finding time (and now cheap pianos and internet info) to pick up the piano playing they never had a chance to do in their youth. By the thousands. I bet I'm not the only one lamenting the lack of truly ADULT material to learn from, and not everybody feel like making their own.

Just had to get that off my chest. And thanks again for taking interest.

The great classical composers of old have left us a multitude of simple piano works. This searchable spreadsheet lists many pieces but you might be interested in all the grade 1 & 2 pieces.

I agree with Earl. That spreadsheet is also sortable by grades from the drop down box at the top.

I'm working on a Grade 1 piece by Bach (Agay is under copyright and I'm not sure what the Alt ones are) but a few Bach pieces. I'm not sure I found the correct Aria in A Minor either since looking at the Aria Varieta they all look pretty advanced.

I've also found YouTube as an invaluable resource to search for the piece I'm about to work on to hear how it sounds before I get started.

jytte
you might enjoy checking out the Fundamental Keys method book. It focuses on classical music and uses real compositions from well known composers, often the compositions they used to teach their own students. it starts with very simple pieces but does build quickly and has some rather lovely selections. while not perfect, it may be more to your liking.

Warm Regards

You might check out this nice young lady who teaches by remote control from Moldova:

http://www.pianocareer.com/about/

Her specialty is classical, so I didn't try her. But there was a lot of free material to read.

Also check out Robert Estrin's videos at livingpianos.com. They're small (2-5 minute) pieces on specific topics. I've learned things that I actually use there.

Surprised me a little too. My teacher teaches mainly children, but says adults tend to be more motivated by the time they get to her, and doing it because they want to. Some of her adult students had lessons as children, or were students of other teachers. I took up piano under two years ago, and she has been my first ever piano teacher. So she jokingly refers to me as her 'green field site' student.

Having taught guitar at various times over the years, I found it not uncommon that an adult might have long wished s/he could learn to play, but had no idea how much effort such a undertaking requires. Performers make it look easy and one never sees the "behind the scenes" work it took to get to that performance. So sometimes the path lessons take for an adult might simply be to try it, find that it is not the priority s/he thought it might be, and then move on to something else.

In my opinion as the teacher in these cases, the experience and at least the willingness to try it, are good things. Adults are able to make decisions about these experiences, try new things, and end up doing something they really wanted to do after all. I have a friend who felt he always wanted to learn to play guitar. He tried it for three years and finally decided it wasn't for him. He moved on to model railroading and is really enjoying that. Nothing wrong with either pursuit, or with trying one thing and another to find what works.

Another experience I had was finishing college as an adult. I finished my last two years in night classes. During my senior year, I had to meet with my adviser to make sure I had fulfilled all the requirements for my degree. I remember commenting that he must get many more students as adults (i.e. less dropout rate) because an adult would have a much clearer idea of what s/he needed the degree for and therefore be more motivated to finish the coursework. He told me that the dropout rate for adults is really rather high and that few actually finish their degree plans.

It seems that, despite good intentions, life does often intrude. Job demands, kids, and just life as an adult with responsibilities, is quite busy for most people. Activities such as music lessons are things to be done when one's responsibilities have been attended to, and there may not be much energy left for yet another activity.

I can certainly see adults wanting to learn to play, deciding to take lessons, and then realizing that they don't really have the time and/or energy to consistently do what is necessary to succeed.

Online (or self-teaching) courses can be good because the adult student can make at least some progress, however small, according to that person's schedule. Not everyone is training for the concert hall and maybe some just want to make a little music in some completely amateurish capacity. Self-teaching is a very flexible way to do this. It may be that a person CAN get in an hour a day, but when this practice happens varies greatly from day to day, such that committing to regularly scheduled lessons may not be possible.

Each person has different needs and motivations. There is no "one size fits all" in this regard. What we see in a person's life and what the reality is, may be completely different. What we see as lack of commitment, may actually be lack of energy as that person copes with things in his or her life that we may be unaware of.

Tony