Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Confused Piano Dad needs help choosing a piano :-)

This is my first post - have looked through a lot of threads over the last few weeks but am hoping I can get some more targeted advice. I'll try to be as precise as possible in outlining the situation.

I'm looking at buying a piano for my 16yr old son. He is reasonably good (https://www.youtube.com/user/250blahblah is a link to his youtube channel with some piano pieces that can help you get an idea of his level), but it is a hobby and likely to remain so. For the last 10years he has been playing on an RD600, but over the last year he is finding that the action of that keyboard is so much softer than that of any acoustic piano he tries that he is unable to play properly on them. For example, he didn't do as well on his trinity grade 7 pieces because the dynamics were much harder on his exam instrument. Similarly, if he tries to play acoustics at hotels, or other friends houses he has a hard time.

So - here are my priorities:
1) An action that is closer to a "typical" acoustic piano. Yes, I know they all differ, but something that will build his hand strength and technique appropriately that he can move around.
2) Something that has a good piano sound that would make him enjoy playing

Here are my constraints:
1) I live in an apartment, so something that allows practicing with headphones
2) Something that fits in the apartment - in other words no grands
3) I live in India, so it's almost impossible to actually try any piano before buying it

Cost is *not* a constraint, but of course I'd rather not spend $15k if it doesn't get me anything I need over something that costs $3k :-)

We were recently vacationing in Tokyo and I took him to the Yamaha showroom there (because I was thinking if getting him a U1-SH). He played quite a few and didn't really like the U1 - the YUS5 was much more to his liking. I've also been looking up what a DP route might look like, and the RD800 seems like a good bet there. The purity of a silent AP appeals to me, but at the same time he likes doing compositions and is experimenting with music and layering so having a DP also has some appeal.

So - as you can see I am somewhat confused, and forced to buy without playing. Any help?

Hello Sharad,

I watched the videos of your son's playing. He needs to revise his seating before any keyboard - he may be a bit too high, but I cannot see him entirely, only his arms and hands. His wrists are too high and the bridge of his hands too flat, and his fingers are collapsing in the small joint. He will never play with strength with those positions. He definitely needs instruction from a teacher who understands technique. He is slender (like me) and he is capable of much more strength and security at the keyboard if he receives good technical instruction - something he is obviously not getting currently. If there is no one around your area who is an excellent teacher, then lessons with a good teacher over Skype would be warranted because these problems will not be solved unless they are addressed directly.

Regarding a new instrument, investigate the Yamaha Silent Pianos: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/silentpianos/

As a working pianist I own both a Yamaha grand piano, and and Yamaha digital, and without equivocation I prefer my acoustic piano. But if you could work at a vertical acoustic piano that includes digital capacity (with headphones) that would be an asset given your living arrangement.

LOL I thought PianoDad already had a good piano (FYI, there is a user here with the name PianoDad)

Welcome!

Living in an appartment does not necessarily mean you are forced to go with a DP. I am in a small appartment in a flat with neighbours on all sides and I do have a grand piano

Jonathan,

Getting a good teacher is definitely a problem here and that is one reason he has more or less stagnated in his piano playing the last year or two (before that he had a good teacher who moved back to the US). I was not aware that lessons over skype are possible. I see you are also a teacher - is it OK if I PM you to discuss this a little more?

In terms of the piano, while something like a YUS5-SH seems like the optimal choice, it takes 3-4 months to get one special ordered here in India. It's also the case that 2 yrs from now my son will go to college in the US and will likely have to live with a DP in his dorm room. So I was wondering whether upgrading the current RD600 to something else (say the RD800 or a CP4) might make sense (I can get those within a week since they are in stock in india even though not on display any where). How different would they be from the RD600?

Sorry if the Piano Dad was confusing - there must be lots of us out there :-). More than the neighbors I'm also looking out for my own sanity - not sure I can deal with listening to all the practicing myself!

Look for posts by Bennevis about this. He's an accomplished player, and IIRC, he recommends the Nord line of keyboards.

http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products

I have the Yamaha CP33, which works fine for practice, given that I also have an acoustic grand. But it's quite different than any acoustic piano.

In any case, it's important to avoid Single Piano Syndrome. If he only plays on one instrument, no matter how good or bad, no matter whether acoustic or digital, he won't develop the ability to adapt to the various pianos he may encounter. Difficult though it may be at first, the only cure for SPS is to get some practice time on a variety of instruments.

The Nords are fine keyboards that sound good and have lots of features but the action is even softer, lighter and dare I say it, even less piano like than the Roland 600.

Given the budget allowed for this might be a candidate for a hybrid piano like the Avant Grands or the analogous Roland that I forget the name of. They have full grand piano actions with whippens and bridals straps and throw a real hammer into the sensor. He would get used to an action with the escapement bump. It would also be a full generations jump in sound production technology.

As tactfully as I can: While I am not one to deny the limitations of digitals when it comes to expression, not all of the young man's difficulties in execution are the fault of practicing on what not to long ago was a top line digital. Those collapsing hands make my carpal tunnel flare just watching them.

You're a good dad for encouraging and supporting your son's music making. Good on you for it.

Kurt

I would highly suggest Kawai's MP11. It has real wooden action like Yamaha's U1Sh and I think the longest keys of any digital piano. While its no substitute for my grand, it is pleasantly playable when I just want to work quietly upstairs. For a dorm, it is absolutely your best option if you want the most realistic action possible. The RD600's current successor, the RD800, is also very good.

Thanks for all the responses.

Don't worry about being tactful - he is not trying to make a career out of his piano playing. It's a hobby and what's most important to me is not that he become super good, but that he enjoys himself and builds up the skills to have a companion for life in his music. I'm certainly going to try and see if I can get him some technical instruction since clearly he can do with some help, but I'm happy to upgrade the piano regardless (a lot of the controls on the RD600 have also given up the ghost over the years).

I am certainly no expert on this, but intuitively it seems that a lighter action potentially might allow you to get away with substandard technique more easily, which would get caught out on a heavier action. So while it is true that once you have the right technique you can practice on anything, having a heavier action can help you understand when you are doing something that will not scale up.

I was just told by the Yamaha dealer here that it's not even possible to special order anything other than the U1 since the other models are not built to survive the weather here, so at this point it looks like a DP is my only realistic option. I looked through the Kawai website but can't seem to find a dealer in India - so I might be limited to the "big" Yamaha/Roland brands in terms of what I can get my hands on.

All things considered the RD800 seems to be the most logical answer for me at this point ...

At least in the US, digitals can easily be bought online, even Amazon.

The Kawai MP11 would be high on my list. Yamaha's AvantGrands are also really nice, but are just as bulky as an acoustic piano so not very portable. Never tried a Roland.

I'd post this question in the digital forum too if you haven't already.

This is the best alternative to an acoustic that I've played.
Check it out.
http://m.usa.yamaha.com/products/pianos-keyboards/hybrid-pianos/nu1/nu1.html

+1 Kawai MP11. Very close to the feel of my 1889 Mason & Hamlin grand, maybe a tad heavier. No where near the sound though, at least coming out of speakers (Yamaha HS8's). Much better with headphones. And much better through speakers with Pianoteq. I'm sure that would also be true for other software pianos.

I wouldn't recommend any kind of cabinet digital for a college dorm. I got away with an RD-700 in mine, so that leaves you with the stage piano options recommended above. The Kawai MP11 is just a portable CA95 with no speakers or cabinet. It also costs less than $3000, which is not what you can say about an Avant Grand.

You say he didn't like the sound of the U1. I'm wondering if that could be because he is so used to an old digital (which is only an approximate piano sound). I've known students who haven't been comfortable on an acoustic after having extensively played a digital, and in the ones I've followed up, they had the volume turned down, generally a very mellow sound. Any that I know, I tell them to crank the volume up, and try to adjust it to sound like a real piano - one bought a keyboard amplifier to achieve that end.

A U1 is basically how a piano should sound - there are some which are brighter (like my Grotrian) or more mellow.

I don't own a digital and the only one I've tinkered with was a very low end one a number of years ago. However, I'm wondering how much of an advantage they offer compared to acoustics in that the piano is always in tune? Perhaps discussed before, but I'd like to hear some thoughts from the acoustic and digital owners about the difference in sound quality between the two considering the digital is always in tune as compared to the acoustic yet why their preference for the acoustic? I mean, the digital doesn't buzz, captures the sound of a concert grand, doesn't require maintenance, etc., as factors in its favor. Really would like to know.

A digital is like watching a YouTube video of a first person view of riding a roller coaster. An acoustic is like riding a roller coaster

I have fairly good stereo, not some over-the-top $20,000 stereo, but still a pretty nice stereo with relatively big Polk floor speakers, Yamaha amp, etc. But if you play the piano next to it there's no contest.

Maybe it's simple physics. The piano's soundboard is 6' x 3-5'. Speakers are usually about 6"-8" and made of paper. Borrow a nice stereo from Best Buy and play it next to your piano. I think you'll see what I mean.

Backto_Study_Piano: I don't think it's a case of his not liking acoustics - in that same showroom he was very happy with the sound of the U3, YUS5, the SU7, and the grands. We also travel a fair amount and he gets to tinker around with pianos in hotels (typically grands but some uprights) which he enjoys. For some reason he just doesn't like the U1.

Others: unfortunately it looks like I am going to be constrained more than anything by what is actually available to me here in India. Even for Yamaha, if you look at http://in.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/ you will see that there are entire lines (e.g. hybrid pianos like the NU1 or the Avant and even stage pianos like the CP4)that are totally missing. Roland seems to do a much better job of offering almost everything in India.

Given this it looks like the RD800 is almost the only choice left for me, so I think I will just go ahead with that.

Thanks for all the help, especially to those to took the time to watch my son's pieces and give constructive feedback. I am definitely going to try and get him some better technical instruction and that will probably matter a lot more than the piano I buy. 2 years from now when he has to buy a piano for his dorm room (which he can order in the US) I will encourage him to come back to this forum and get some advice :-).

The RD-800 is a fine choice. I think it will be a great companion to him in college as well.

Before you pull the trigger, call these guys and ask if they have the MP11:

http://thememusic.in/aboutus/

That's interesting. I wonder why Yamaha isn't trying to market in India. I heard there were a lot of people there and a rapidly growing middle class . Is music education not a priority there for most? I hear a lot of good things about Roland from some friends and people here. Seems like a good way to go.

I would guess its because India is still very much attached to their own traditional classical music and there isn't a big of a cultural push to adopt Western music or push their kids to learn piano.

I'm sure music education is very important, just maybe not getting their kids to bang out Chopin.