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When I was seeking a new grand piano, I had hoped to find one which in style matched the other ultra-modern furnishings of my home. With the exceptions of offerings from Sauter and Bosendorfer (both being far beyond my price range) and Story&Clark (simply not good enough an instrument), no piano manufacturer offered such a choice. All of them only offer the same "classic" design, sometimes with additional traditional variants.

Why don't more of the manufacturers make at least one model in a tasteful, modern design like a Sauter?

There could possibly be a number of reasons why many piano manufacturers don't offer ultra-modern designs, some of which may be :

- designing outside the traditional flat box would not only mean a redesign of the case, it may also require a redesign of the scale of the instrument, depending on the materials used for the new case and its shape (I've seen images of transparent, acrylic pianos, but I have no idea how they sound.)
- there would undoubtedly be a much smaller market for an ultra-modern design, so the design, depending upon how far from traditional it would have to go, might be a money-loser for a manufacturer, Seiler's offering notwithstanding.
- most piano buyers are traditionalists when it comes to the appearance of their instrument. Some of us actually love the traditional design (reluctance to change?). I think that few of us would want an ultra-modern design because the majority of homes are either traditional or non-descript (!) in design. For the purchaser, the extra cost might not be justifiable.
- some traditional "die-hards" might look askance at such an instrument, wondering: "Yes, but is it a real piano?"

Other reasons?

Regards,

Special cases are always expensive. However, I think the new Yamaha designs are more modern-looking than most.

Hey Jonathan, I've got an idea. Like you, I favor an ultra-contemporary look for my home. While I do think that a black grand that doesn't have 19th Century flourishes is timeless enough, there is something to be said for having your instrument reflect that it's the 21st Century. Steinway made a few subtle design changes to their newer grands--namely in the music desk, that brings it a bit more up to date.

If you're talking about your Estonia, maybe speak to them about having a custom music desk and legs carved to replace the ones you've got. I think these components would go a long way toward edging the instrument more toward a contemporary design without compromising the design or necessitating a six-figure purchase of a new instrument.

And Bruce, I can understand what you're saying about traditionalists, but I think that a design only retains its appeal so long. Consider those old grands from the turn of the century with all the elaborate carvings and "ice cream cone" turned legs. Every time I saw one of those or one with Chippendale legs, I immediately passed. I didn't even sit down to play it. If I went with a Steampunk home (which was a notion I playfully entertained), it would certainly be a lovely centerpiece. But amid the mid-century cubes and hexagons that won out, I think it would look ghastly, to say the least.

Richard Dain, Hurstwood Farm, will put you down for a carbon fibre grand piano delivered to your music room in Las Vegas.

Manufacturers don't do modern because there isn't enough demand for it. The demand that exists is better served by custom restoration shops, like this:

http://pianosxxi.com/piano/custompiano/

They'll make whatever you want. Check out their "Harley Davidson" Steinway.

Maybe the Mason Hamlin chrome model would be to your liking. The case is traditional but the chrome plate makes it look contemporary IMO.

Some of the best makers have made modern art-case instruments with exorbitant price tags and not always, in my opinion, a very attractive result. Personally, I believe that the traditional, classic shape for grand pianos has a timeless elegance which enhances any interior.

Robert.

I have to admit I LIKE the New York Serenade in the link JohnSprung posted.
Especially the music desk.

Gary

Doesn't YAMAHA have a Chrome model now (C2X?)?

I looked at those. The Harley one certainly had some design features but to my inexperienced eye the other 2 seemed simply to be standard pianos with custom paint jobs. Did I miss something?

Looks very striking - but has anyone ever played one?

*deleted*

I think carbon fiber pianos are a myth. Someone come on here and prove they are more than just a trade-show curiosity. Gimme some recordings and a price tag.

That's precisely what inspired my comment above. Plenty of pics, no recordings. What gives?

If only there were a website you could visit to search for such things. What a shame it doesn't exist. If it did, you might find this video:

It is all rather irrelevant. Jonathan wanted a contemporary styled piano at competitive prices. As far as I know, only the Yamaha CX line offers that in today's market. If there are others, I would be interested in knowing about them, as well.

1 April 2014: "We have completed building, and publicly exhibited a grand piano made almost entirely out of carbon fibre, which is almost ready to go into production. If any reader feels he wants to be the owner of one of the first grand pianos made almost entirely out of carbon fibre, we are ready to contract to supply and would be delighted to discuss terms."

You call that a recording? That's possibly the worst promotional video for anything I've ever seen. I was talking about a professional audio recording with quality microphones, playing some real music - not bashing out a few pop chords on an out of tune piano with the background atmosphere of a county fair.

Do you have a decent link?

Reading between the lines do I detect a touch of disapprobation?

So who even makes that piano in the video? I'm confused. And yes, I agree, the recording and the performance are a bag of hurt. It sounds about as good as my buddy's Melodigrand spinet he's got in his attic studio with that cellphone video.

Back to the original question:
Sauter does indeed, Schimmel has a modern looking variant of their uprights (and also a gazillion artcases pianos which are more futuristic than modern). Bösendorfer has a Porsche designed piano.
I think it is more a matter of doing some research than "not available". It's just that they're less well known because a lot of piano buyers are conservative when it comes to the looks of their instrument.

For an intro mainly in English see:
http://www.clavio.de/klavierforum/threads/richard-j-dains-composite-piano-projekt-1.16502/

For artistic design, check out the Schimmel "Art Collection": Link

As Ian's pointed out that piano comes from Hurstwood Farm Pianos in the UK–their well-known for their carbon fibre instruments. Searching through these forums or visiting their web site leads to a lot of previous discussion..

I've mentioned it before on these forums, I've played on that instrument and other carbon fibre soundboard pianos at Hurstwood Farm. First-hand experience is much more informative than vid from an unknown source with little if any knowledge or experience with pianos .... the vid that was posted in this discussion isn't promo from Hurstwood Farm or anyone associated with them.

Maybe, but did you detect some provocation?

Why yes, yes I do, one which I selected solely for you, kind sir.

Not really. They don't have a modern on their web site at the moment, because the demand for modern is so small. But they can do it if you want.

I have no history with you whatsoever. What's with the attitude?

You asked for a recording. Agreed that it might be a myth because you hadn't heard a recording. I gave you a recording, you whined.

This topic is already way off the rails, but the takeaway for me is:

-Any piano with a contemporary design is going to cost you dearly as a custom job, though Yamaha does offer some contemporary cases, like the one in this cute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VqTwnAuHws

-The carbon fiber piano shown in the video in this thread is apparently made by Hurstwood Farms, but then again, it may not be. There exists no PROFESSIONAL recording of this instrument besides someone's low-end phone. Someone please give a model number on that piano in the sh-tty cellphone video and call out who makes THAT piano. Someone has apparently played it on this thread.

-Hurstwood Farms grows organic, non-GMO carbon fibre soundboards that are built into Steingraeber pianos as part of a partnership between the two companies in a line known as Phoenix. Recordings of THESE instruments exist in more abundance. These instruments not only aren't contemporary in design, but actually look even more retro than most modern pianos.

You didn't give a "recording" - that video was a joke. Awful sound quality, awful piano tone, out of tune, awful playing. If you had found a proper recording you would have posted it before you posted that nonsense video. I wasn't agreeing that the piano is a myth in the physical sense - obviously they built at least one. But mythical in the sense that it's a good instrument - a viable alternative to traditional pianos at this time. I was agreeing that it is not out there for public judgement. Whoever builds these things hasn't seen fit to subject them to proper critique. It's quite possible the builder of the CF piano knows that it has some way to go in terms of being a musical instrument and is using it more as a marketing device for new materials. If that's the case, so be it. But without any decent recordings, it's pretty much irrelevant in the marketplace. If there's one thing a new piano needs if it's going to challenge the traditional establishment, it's recordings.

Oh, and for the record, when I first saw that CF piano mentioned on PW a year or two ago, I did go looking for a proper recording - it was nowhere to be found.

Besides that, Markarian made some strong statements (stronger than mine actually) and I didn't see you getting all snide with him and taking him on. What's your interest in me? You're like a stalker.

Yeah, can someone please get snide with me? Don't let Ando hog the sarcastic replies! I'm having a boring night eating instant noodles and Tweeting dumb pictures.

Hey Markarian, why don't you stop polluting this thread with useless posts you noodle-gobbling tweet!
(There. How's that?

If you don't like what I found, that's fine, but find one yourself. No need to be a complaining-Ando.

Article published on 03 April, 2014

Progress on our Carbon Fibre grand piano

Our first prototype piano was completed at the end of August 2013. Hearing it speak for the first time was memorable. The big unknown question, whether it would sound like a traditional piano was answered... it did... but with longer sustain and exceptional and superior power particularly in the upper two octaves.

A few weeks later we took the piano together with one of our Phoenix pianos incorporating carbon fibre sound board to the Music Festival at Cremona for public exhibition in the same part of Italy that spawned Christofore’s first piano in the eighteenth century.

Since then the prototype piano has been exhibited in Paris and at the Birmingham Exhibition Centre in the UK. It has been awarded several major prizes for innovation. Phoenix pianos which incorporate much of our new technology but look conventional, have also been exhibited at Trade shows in Shanghai, Munich ,Frankfurt, and at the NAMM show. Phoenix pianos with carbon fibre soundboards were also shown at PTG events in Grand Rapids, Chicago, Las Vegas and others. In all these venues our pianos have attracted huge interest. In Munich we won the coveted first prize for Innovation in the Arts which is a contest for all arts including painting, architecture, musical instruments, furniture, fabrics and many other branches of art. The Phoenix Piano later shown in Shanghai was loaned to the Queen for the event when she entertained Foreign Royalty and Heads of State attending the marriage of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge .

The purpose of a prototype is to learn. We have spent an intense 6 months studying the vibration and acoustics of carbon fibre soundboards /bridges/case/strings and rib configuration using an extended form of existing computer modal analysis which has enabled accurate assessment and optimisation of many features both individually and in combination. Several thousands of these massive calculations have been undertaken.

We are currently building a second prototype using most of the components of the first as a basis. We refer to this piano as our preproduction piano. For any person who is interested in owning one of our preproduction pianos we would be pleased to negotiate a contract to supply. It is in our opinion a vast step forward in climate resistant and durable piano design which we have taken with every possible reference to the demands of achieving a design costing no more and hopefully rather less than current pianos of similar size and high end performance.

R Dain April 2014

http://hurstwoodfarmpianos.co.uk/newsandarticledetails.php?page=news&catid=1&atid=16

Thanks! So we have the Hurstwood Phoenix CF, recorded by someone with a craptastic phone at a composites tradeshow with a performer of, shall we say, budding talent.

Anyone know of any recordings of the Hurstwood Phoenix CF? From the copypasta above, it's been around since at least April.

The video in question is two years old, actually. Where has this thing been sitting all that time?

Why not ask Richard Dain?

For anyone interested, an excellent recording featuring a Steingraeber-Phoenix piano (if I am not mistaken with Bridge Agraffes and Carbon Fiber Soundboard) is "Eric Himy plays Schumman" by Centaur Records available in Amazon.

According to Richard Dain, "Both Audio Emporium in the USA and BBC Music magazine in the UK pronounced the recording to be the best piano sound ever put on CD. It is indeed a very fine CD worth listening to. There were highly complementary remarks also in Musical Opinion who attended the recording session".

I'll be interested to hear what forum members think of this recording. In particular, if anyone is able to detect any evidence of:

- the "Longitudinal Mode Interactions" that some claim to occur on Phoenix Pianos with Bridge Agraffes

and/or

- the carbon fiber soundboard imparting an unusual tonality

I am not claiming there is none, since I"ll be the first to admit that I am still a neophyte when it comes to the evaluation of performance grade pianos.

Best Regards

Miguel Angel

Nobody's complaining - just stating a fact that this piano is virtually impossible to evaluate. There are no proper recordings to be found. What is the matter with you anyway? Do you have some issue with me? You have an unhealthy personal obsession with my comments. Why don't you go and hassle somebody else.

It takes Two to Tango (and the same is true with bickering) ... Could we please get back to the matter at hand?

Miguel

That CD has quite a high price tag here but there are MP3 clips for the rest of us:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homage-Schumann-Eric-Himy/dp/B00OTUQCR2

Withindale, thanks for providing the clips.

Still no recordings of that little Phoenix CF all Carbon Fibre one we saw in the trade show video. It continues to take my breath away at how poorly those selling instruments that cost more than most cars can continuously neglect to avail themselves of the technology that would better showcase their products.

Watch this space ...

Miguel,

Hope you don't mind me asking ... how have you made out with your piano adventures? (and thanks for posting about Himy/Schuman/Steingraeber/Phoenix). Again, hope you don't mind me asking ...

Jonathan, go check out the "Odd Baldwin" thread on this forum. It could be just what you're looking for. It looks very "Mid Century Modern" to me.

Quote from Mark:

"Hope you don't mind me asking ... how have you made out with your piano adventures? (and thanks for posting about Himy/Schuman/Steingraeber/Phoenix). Again, hope you don't mind me asking ...:

Hello Mark. I don't mind at all, thanks for asking.

I am still in the middle of my apartment renovation, and at least six to eight months away from finishing and being ready to bring a piano into it.

The good news is that I keep making changes to make the apartment more suitable for what I have in mind, which is a hybrid space that will serve as my home as well as an Art, Photography and Music Studio and Performance Space. With that as a goal, interior walls keep coming down and outdoor gardens keep going up !!!

In the meanwhile, I continue to: 1) Educate myself in the subject of Performance Grade Pianos (by purchasing recordings, reading books and participating in forums like this one); 2) Contact companies that are willing/able to export their pianos to Ecuador (directly from their factory); 3) Explore rebuilt options (just started on this one).

It has been a long road, but I am one of those that enjoys the ride as much as the destination (which by itself is the beginning of yet another journey) !!!

Best Regards

Miguel Angel

Thanks for that update Miguel. Keep on the good course! Which it sounds like you are ... Looking forward to hearing how it all works out for you. Itook me 18 months to get to the piano I ended up with. So, yes, I totally hear you about enjoying the process

All best wishes,

Mark

P.s. And I just downloaded the Himy recording from iTunes.

I asked Richard Dain.

In brief, the piano pictured in this thread was an initial prototype. Thee team has fed what they learned back into the design process and have now built a pre-production prototype.

So that everyone can hear the sound of the piano, two professional artists will be recording Liszt’s La Campanella and Rachmaninoff’s Valse within a couple of weeks or so. The recordings will then go on to the Hurstwood Farm website in Youtube format.

Richard says La Campanella places big demands on the upper registers and Valse on the lower registers. This may be the first time a professional pianist has had the confidence to perform these works publicly on a baby grand size piano.

Anyone who has a serious interest in the piano will be most welcome at the Hurstwood Farm studios.

That would explain why it was never properly recorded - it wasn't finished yet and didn't sound as good as it needed to. It will be interesting to hear the final result.




That would be Ravel's La Valse, I think. Those two pieces will certainly test out this new piano - especially the Ravel, with its requirement for tonal depth. I look forward to hearing it. Imagine how great it would be if pianos could sound just as good, but be 1/5th of the weight and stable in all climates. Would be a fantastic development.

For something more affordable you could try http://www.edelweiss-piano.com/contemporary-piano-range

Nice link.

I appreciate all the responses. Among them was a suggestion to take a look at the limited edition offerings by Steinway. This is representative of what I am getting at: http://www.steinway.com/pianos/steinway/limited-edition/the-125th-anniversary.

Which model?