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Not the story of an acoustic (- my home circumstances won't permit one), but I came close to purchasing a digital that I'd almost certainly have regretted very quickly - simply because, being brought up on acoustics, I thought that any digital that didn't resemble an acoustic of some sort wasn't even worth my time trying out.

But I was persuaded by the store owner to just try that expensive black 'slab' for a few minutes......and it turned out to be way better than any acoustic-lookalike that I'd been playing on, in several different stores, for the previous few weeks. And I bought that slab, and am still playing happily on it four years later.

Though I'm not presently in the market for an acoustic, I've learnt that every piano is worth trying out - no matter what the brand, or even appearance. I've since played some unknown (to me) brands that 'sing' much better than another 'named' brand, which costs $$$ more. And smaller grands that sound and play much better than bigger ones. And ancient rebuilt ones that sound so much sweeter than their modern equivalents, for a fraction of the cost.

So, the lesson from my experience of buying a digital in 2010 is, don't judge a piano by its appearance, or name, or even size - and don't go to a piano showroom with pre-conceived notions of what a particular piano of a particular size, with a particular price tag and name should sound and play like. If it looks like a piano, waddles like a piano and quacks like a piano, it's a piano, but you still have to try it out.......

If we're talking about digitals then I will tell anything that breathes that Kurzweil's PC3LE8 was one of the worst digital pianos I've ever owned. A watered-down version of an overpriced workstation board that had non-graded key action and no global EQ. Crap on a stick. I don't know what possessed me to buy it. It went back to the store and I had to buy back my Korg that I traded in at a higher price.

Jokes aside, IMHO this is a fairly serious question.

For years some people have "warned" quite explicitly against certain new Chinese made pianos though many have since climbed into the Upper level of Consumer Grade Pianos. While "origin" may have explained some things in past, it presumably "still does"

At same time others keep warning about the supposedly short "longevity" of these pianos notwithstanding the fact that many of the more famous Japanese pianos have long exhausted their prime in tonality after only 30 short years.

Unacceptable in many parts of Europe or the U.S.

So here's a chance for actual owners to speak up.

Larry Fine: please stay tuned in..

Norbert

My story about Kawai uprights :
Had bought a used Kawai US60M (52"/131cm) on mid 2009 from a local piano shop here, at that time, I did not really understand how a good piano is, I just merely know how to play piano. I tried the piano, sounds ok, touch ok, looks good, then bought it as my first piano. Few years down the road, slowly I began to learn what a good piano is, by playing many more pianos. Sadly the Kawai US60M was not up to standard of what big upright piano can truly deliver (in terms of touch and tone projection), even after some services. Fortunately, I found a good deal on Kawai K8 and I managed to sell the Kawai US60M soon after that to a beginner player. My Kawai K8 is now one of the best upright I've played in my life, it can even compete with other big brands' upright. The tone is sweet & mellow, touch is excellent.

Moral of the story, you can only get better by learning from your own experience, either good or bad ones. Never gives up to find your piano soulmate

Wow, i've always been curious to touch and hear how an avant grand sounds and plays. Surprising to say the least.

What BS. Anyone who has followed piano manufacturing at all knows Chines pianos have improved so "presumably it still does" is nonsense.

As far as short longevity goes you talk about famous Japanese pianos losing their prime in tonality after 30 years, but the Chinese makes have been around for less than 10 and perhaps less than 5 years. So talking about longevity makes little sense for Chinese pianos.

Serious question, don't most pianos even from the US or Europe, need some work after 30 years? Either some serious voicing but more likely need new strings and hammers - as well as a thorough regulation? I don't think this is limited to Japanese pianos.

There's a forum member here, forget his name, with a Brodmann that he claims couldn't withstand about 5 years of above average use. I believe he's a professional player so he played 4-5 hours/day. Japanese pianos have proven to withstand some pretty demanding and high use environments like university practice rooms, churches, concert venues, etc.

I also read a pretty damning review by a Brodmann owner that claims his piano became pretty much unplayable in less than a year. PM me if you want the link

So I would come back in 25 years when these new generation of Chinese pianos have been in use for 30 years before claiming victory over the Japanese pianos in terms of durability. I'm not saying they can't, but it's about 25 years premature to claim victory.

Exactly.

No! My only regret is that I didn't buy my first working piano several/many decades earlier than I did.

The two pianos that I have bought from PianoCraft (and that I wouldn't have gotten without the aid of Steve Cohen, who should pull his head out of his oven) have been fantastic.

If I live long enough, I may buy another!

Thanks!

It's a long story, and a fairly unhappy one. I wrote about it in detail in the Digital Pianos forums when I first joined in April.

Still, since I got full price for the N1 as trade in for our C2X, all's well that ends well.

The discussion about "longevity" has many facets and is by no means B.S.

If longevity means simply hearing a sound when pressing a key, most pianos will last at least 100 years.

But that's not the point.

Of at least equal importance is the sound and the quality of it over the years as a musical instrument.

If soundboards are loosing their crown by drying up, hammers are hardening making piano unduly bright by changing the sound spectrum of the entire instrument, then what does "longevity" really mean?

Why is it generally considered worthwhile to rebuild older American and European pianos, but few if any among those not exactly belonging to this group? With no Colleges needing to stage their annual "College Sales" to receive brand new pianos after having used their existing stock for only one year?

It's quite obvious that none of this has to do with 'reliability' - but sound and "sound retention" over the years.
And/or plain business.

Meaningful longevity of course would void the constant push by the industry to "upgrade" and buy a "better yet" piano after only few years.

So it's evident that 'longevity' is a complex not exactly "easy" subject. And it's certainly not B.S.

What has become popular here [by some] is to readily point out the presumed excellence of some makes at the expense of others.

Perhaps the "Chinese" provide a [presumably for now..] "convenient" target: for one they have only been few years on the market but perhaps more importantly,they have by now become the biggest thread to certain others.

Which if I may suggest,is the very point for the ongoing, highly targeted and relentless criticism by certain members here.

And that's exactly where some major "mistakes" can - and IMHO *are* being made.

Except it's not about "mistakes" any longer.

It's pretty having become plain resentment for the success of some of the pianos we represent.

With a generous added measure of [attempted] bullying and side-stepping.

Hidden industry interests hiding behind some anonymous pseudonyms?

Appearing in full force whenever chance is given?

Not exactly B.S....

Norbert

No one said a discussion of longevity was BS. Two posters said your comments about longevity were BS.


Originally Posted By: Norbert
It's meaningless to argue here, the PIANOS we offer are without doubt the best quality at their price point.

You should know better, this has nothing to do with sound retention, but economics. It's not worth spending $25,000 rebuilding a Yamaha C3 because a new is about the same price. But a Steinway would be more worth rebuilding because a new one is easily double or triple that.

We'll see in 10 years if anyone's going to spend $25,000 rebuilding a Ritmuller. I seriously doubt it.

My Estonia L190 has been a nightmare. No matter what has been done to try to remedeate it, it still sounds terrible. Trying to sell one is harder than fixing one.

No need to defend it Norbert, it is what it is...

Norbert need not defend it, however I will.

While it may be true that you have had problems with your Estonia I can tell you that you are, BY FAR, the exception to the rule.

Estonia pianos are excellent instruments and the company stand behind their instruments absolutely.

Please PM me the details of your problem and I will intervene on your behalf.

Thanks Steve!

Also: very sorry to Mark!

As perhaps can remember, I have tried on several occasions to help out but have never fully understood the problem.

It's something very difficult to get "long distance".
Especially when involving a sound issue that one can't hear oneself.

Disappointments can happen with any piano: recently someone voiced what he perceived as as problem with a Sauter Delta in Sweden involving one particular string: again I was not able to fully understand what exactly the problem was.
[ P.S. Nor did his tech who had apparently come out several times...]

Mark lives near New York and there surely must be someone who should be able to shed some light at the issue. Besides there are dealers not too far like Ori and Rich.

In cases like that nobody needs to put his head in sand but should step out helping as much as can. Even if it's not his own customer. I certainly tried my best.
[Thanks again Steve.. ]

The best resource in such case is always one or several experienced technicians who should inspect the piano 'on site'.
Everything else is simply guessing around.

Receiving a report by a tech and then forwarding it to manufacturer,I know of no company which would not fully stand behind a customer these days.

Most certainly not Sauter and Estonia....

Norbert

Slightly OT, but are there any dealers in the Seattle area that carry a good assortment of Estonia's line? I heard a demo of their new 210 and wanted to spit take. Its not often a European piano of the same size of my piano makes me feel jealous.

I have some mixed feelings about my 69 M&H Model A.

MH is an excellent brand, of course. And it's a beautiful piano, in great condition. It sounds good to me, though my ears are not as great as many folks on here.

My beef is that I have a tough time playing softly. I don't think that it's as responsive as I'd like, and I plan to have my RPT work on it soon. He thought it was a good buy, and a big step up from my old Kawai 41" console. But I think that the diff in playing a console made it hard for me to know whether I liked it or not because a grand feels a lot different.

When shopping, I suppose I could have looked longer, though I went to quite a few shops in the area. Probably over 90% of the pianos around here are asian, and many were too bright. This one was in my budget, and it was a step up, even though it's from the era when MH wasn't at their best. So, I've had it a year, and have upgrade lust already, haha.

It had a 5 yr warranty so maybe when that's up, I'll be shopping again, and I'll be a better player by then, so maybe I'll be happier the next time.

No real regret here, but anxiety and discouragement over work needed that I believed would not be necessary 14 years after purchase...and cannot afford. This really deserves its own thread...