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Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
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#2352363 - 11/19/14 02:52 PM Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy
Peter071 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/14
Posts: 26
Loc: Nederland, Leiden
If I play on my digital piano with headphones I always feel a bit giddy, dizzy and nauseous sick. (I used a dictionary, in Dutch it is: duizelig, draaierig).
I think it is the added stereo effects that makes the sound move from left to right that makes me dizzy. It is on my six years old) Medeli SP40a. (a bad buy).
At the moment I use it with a Kurzweil Sound Module. On the module I choose a mono piano and set the effects to 0.

I want to buy a new DP, my first choice is the Kawai ES100. But I am afraid that it will also makes me dizzy.

Today I listened with my headphone to a promotion cd from Roland with recordings of the LX-15 (supernatural technology and acoustic projection) but with the same effect. Dizzy after a few minutes.
I think two much added effects makes the sound "wave" to much.
I hope I have explained it well.

The headphone is fine, other music gives no problems.

Someone recognizes this problem?
Is there a solution ?

Peter

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#2352412 - 11/19/14 04:10 PM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2419
Loc: UK
I think you will have to explore which brands and models do not have this effect for you, if any. Try also a software VST.

As now, maybe a solution for you is to listen in mono? Usually one of the line outs has a mono plug if only one of the two line outs is connected. Some stage DP's have a quality mono sound (CP4 comes to mind).

Have you tried an EQ, also some DP's have a stereo pan option.

Not sure what else to suggest, I hardly notice any stereo effect on my DP on headphones, even with left and right earphones switched. Maybe a less sensitive headphone, or open instead of closed, or earbuds, or on ear, or .... I really don't know.

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#2352418 - 11/19/14 04:22 PM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: spanishbuddha]
Peter071 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/14
Posts: 26
Loc: Nederland, Leiden
It is difficult to explain in a foreign language. I am not sure if it actually is the stereo effect. I hear some kind of wave, perhaps it is the chorus effect that makes me dizzy.
Something is added to the sound what makes the sound not stable, like it is moving in one place.

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#2352427 - 11/19/14 04:40 PM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 58
Loc: France
Yes, the left LINE OUT is generaly called L/L+R or L/mono which imply a mono signal if the R plug is not used, but the headphone Jack has 3 contacts : Sleeve/Ground, Ring/Right and Tip/left, a mono plug, will only connect the tip and the ground and the headphone will have no signal on the right (tested on my piano)

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#2352428 - 11/19/14 04:46 PM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
Zippo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/09/14
Posts: 4
Loc: Italy
As you describe, I would "accuse" more the reverb effect (if any is on), that simulate the waves in a different environment. Try switch it off, if it's on obviously smile second test: change headphone model or reduce volume..

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#2352443 - 11/19/14 05:11 PM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: spanishbuddha]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1476
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
I think you will have to explore which brands and models do not have this effect for you, if any. Try also a software VST.

As now, maybe a solution for you is to listen in mono? Usually one of the line outs has a mono plug if only one of the two line outs is connected. Some stage DP's have a quality mono sound (CP4 comes to mind).

Have you tried an EQ, also some DP's have a stereo pan option.


+1. Further thoughts:

My PX-350 _does_ have two "Line Out" jacks, and one is labelled "Left / Mono", and produces monophonic sound if it's the only jack that is connected.

. . . If you only have a "Headphone Out" jack, that won't help.

You could use a small mixer to combine the Left and Right channels, from the "Headphone" jack, and feed the combined signal to both ears.

I agree with "Turn off all the effects!" -- reverb, chorus, etc.

On VST's: Pianoteq has a "Monophonic" mode. I often use it that way. I can't hear much difference between "monophonic" and "binaural" (two ears).

I _suspect_ (= guess) that "open-back" headphones will be better for you, than "closed-back" headphones.

. . . What headphones are you using?

For seasickness on boats, a proven remedy is:

. . . Go onto the deck, and watch the horizon.

That way, your eyes tell your brain that the boat _really is moving_, the same message as from your middle ear. Seasickness happens when you're below deck, in the cabin, and your eyes say:

. . . The boat isn't moving

and your ears say:

. . . Yes it is!

Please report back -- your "discomfort" is our "intriguing problem".<g>

. Charles

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#2352458 - 11/19/14 06:00 PM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
Peter071 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/14
Posts: 26
Loc: Nederland, Leiden
I also have "Line Out" jacks, and one is also labeled "Left / Mono".
I used an adapter plug to connect my headphone the the mono line out. But than the sound still comes from the speakers. So I put another adapter plug in the headphone jack to turn of the speakers.
But the sound is only on one side and very soft.

My headphone is closed.

I just listened to some youtube clips using my headphone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLdVR1OkCCA

When the pianist plays the a flat in his right hand (0:22) you can hear what I mean. Some kind of "new age" effect that is added to the tone.
With speakers there is no problem, but with a headphone I can't listen to this clip.

I have no criticism on the pianist or piano, it is only an example.

I tried earplugs (had to look everywhere), but it gives the same problem.
I just tried one earplug, I still hear the "wave". So it is not a stereo effect. It's not a clear piano tone, you can hear that it is manipulated and effects are added.
It is not that I don't like it, the problem is that it makes me dizzy/seasick.

My hearing is normally not very sensitive. When a piano is a bit out of tune I have no problem with that.

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#2352571 - Yesterday at 12:26 AM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 58
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Peter071
I also have "Line Out" jacks, and one is also labeled "Left / Mono".
I used an adapter plug to connect my headphone the the mono line out. But than the sound still comes from the speakers. So I put another adapter plug in the headphone jack to turn of the speakers.
But the sound is only on one side and very soft.

I have tried on my piano and found the same problem. Since the Line Out is mono, it is notmal to have only the left side on the headphone. Line Out amplifier are olso expected to be weaker than headphone plugs.

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#2352578 - Yesterday at 12:46 AM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
TX-Bluebonnet Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/15/14
Posts: 274
Loc: Central Texas
I don't know if this is relevant or not, but a quick Google search shows some people experiencing this sort of problem with noise cancelling headphones.
_________________________
Linda

Started my piano journey June 2014 at age 54.
My digital piano: Casio Privia PX-850.
Working on "Alfred's Adult All-In-One Course" Book 1
XXXV

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#2352616 - Yesterday at 04:00 AM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
Peter071 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/10/14
Posts: 26
Loc: Nederland, Leiden
I don't have a noise canceling headphone.
So I have decided I decided to do a hearing test.

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#2352622 - Yesterday at 04:56 AM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 326
Loc: Valencia, Spain
I've experienced similar sensations, Peter071, aside of sickness.
That feeling of "too much effects", "wave of sound in an annoying frequence".
I did several things:
-I bought a pair of new headphones. Semi-opened. Flatter response (though not ideal). Sennheiser HD518.
-I set EQ in order to lowering the mid range.
-I stored different settings: one for playing via speakers; one for practicing with headphones; one for recording...

I always practice at low volumes. Our brain is very active, it rises its attention levels if the sound is not that strong, so you finally end up hearing more or lees the same volume, with less damage.

It worked well, in the sense that now I can practice with headphones and don't feel tired of them. Anyway, digitals make sound artifacts here and there. The cheaper/older they are, the more disgusting their sound is.
If the same cans do well when listening to other sounds, then it's time to change.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.

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#2353153 - Today at 10:58 AM Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3790
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Peter071
I also have "Line Out" jacks, and one is also labeled "Left / Mono".
I used an adapter plug to connect my headphone the the mono line out. But than the sound still comes from the speakers. So I put another adapter plug in the headphone jack to turn of the speakers.
But the sound is only on one side and very soft.

My headphone is closed.

I just listened to some youtube clips using my headphone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLdVR1OkCCA

When the pianist plays the a flat in his right hand (0:22) you can hear what I mean. Some kind of "new age" effect that is added to the tone.
With speakers there is no problem, but with a headphone I can't listen to this clip.

I have no criticism on the pianist or piano, it is only an example.

I tried earplugs (had to look everywhere), but it gives the same problem.
I just tried one earplug, I still hear the "wave". So it is not a stereo effect. It's not a clear piano tone, you can hear that it is manipulated and effects are added.
It is not that I don't like it, the problem is that it makes me dizzy/seasick.

My hearing is normally not very sensitive. When a piano is a bit out of tune I have no problem with that.


That piano piece was as good as any I've heard. Darned wish I sounded like that. I noticed no adverse effects.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2353213 - 24 minutes 37 seconds ago Re: Using a headphone make me feel a bit dizzy [Re: Peter071]
hv Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 1235
Loc: Cape Cod
Could be the result of too good a seal on the headphones wrecking your sense of orientation. Many engineers only listen with one can on their ear. Or use open back headphones.

Stepping into a deadened space can be similarly disorienting. When I have piano players or tuners in for critical recording sessions where the piano is surrounded by foam maxwalls, they always freak out a bit when they first enter the zone.

Howard

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