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#2354805 - 11/25/14 09:26 PM Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input
ElaineAllegro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Midwest US
I've been piano shopping for a while now, tried a wide range of new and "pre-owned" piano models locally and out of town, and have narrowed my wish list to these two models (new), listed in the Subject in alphabetical order to show no favoritism. For sure, I can't afford and have no room for both!

I've read and re-read all the past threads about larger models of Steingraeber vs. Steinway, and wanted to see if anyone had more specific thoughts about the relative merits of these two ~5'7"-5'8" models. I'll share some of my perspectives eventually, but hoped other PW members' input would help me think about this more systematically.

The room is 13'(feet) by 20' feet; ~9' height.

(Oh, I am sure my prospective dealers will recognize me here, but after mulling it over, I decided to take the risk, put my foot in my mouth, and hope for a tie-breaker and a decision soon.)

Thank you...

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#2354817 - 11/25/14 10:00 PM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: California, USA
What were your impressions of each? When you were playing them, which one did you want to continue playing the most? Did you find one of them easier to play, or more rewarding?

I realize you may have already considered these questions, but the only real answer to your question is: which do you prefer?

They are both, of course, excellent pianos. I think the Steinway has a few less refined attributes: low tenor, tenor/bass transition, and low bass tone. I've only played one smaller Steingraeber (I think the model you are talking about, but not certain) and my impression was that those attributes were more refined on that piano. But that's not a reason to buy a particular piano (at least for most people). They have different tone, and a different touch. The one you like better is the one for you.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2354837 - 11/25/14 11:23 PM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2348
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
The smaller Steinway grands. Models O, L, M, and S are being pressured by several other makers of similar sized grands as regards tone, touch and value. While these Steinways can be wonderful instruments to play, they do suffer from side by side comparison with some other top makes now. The lowest notes are muddy and indistinct in pitch. The breaks are not as smooth. The trebles are not as full, clean and even.

Well set-up the smaller Steinway grands do have much of the warm tone that is the signature Steinway sound in the middle range and portions of the bass. So if you can't live without that sound and you are sure the Steinway you are considering has no problems-the decision is made. It is just that other makers have figured out a lot about making smaller pianos that wasn't known well years ago. And Steinway has not evolved their piano designs at all.

A well set-up Steinway really only begins to outshine all other pianos with their bigger models.

I haven't had much experience with Steingraeber. But I have experienced great smaller grands from Bluthner, Sauter, Bosendorfer, and Fazioli.

I do strongly suggest you hire an independent Technician to evaluate any new fine grand. And as regards Steinway-have them make sure that the capo D'astro bar has not been hardened. Steinway sometimes does this and it wrecks the treble tone and causes more rapid string failure. It is rare but you should eliminate it.

Hope this helps
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2354855 - 11/25/14 11:55 PM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
phacke Online   content

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 578
Loc: CO, USA
Having played a number of models from both companies, I can advise with confidence...
.
.
.
you really have to decide for yourself based on your preferences.

Best wishes,
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin
F. Chopin, Prelude 28 (15)

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#2354856 - Yesterday at 12:00 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1656
Loc: California
Both good pianos.

The Steingraeber has notes like clear bells throughout the entire scale.

The Steinway has a tenor that roars, a treble that sings, and highs that twinkle.

Both have excellent touch; the Steingraeber has longer sustain, but that seems to be something jazz pianists care about more than classical pianists.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2354860 - Yesterday at 12:12 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14204
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
the Steingraeber has longer sustain, but that seems to be something jazz pianists care about more than classical pianists.


I strongly disagree with this.

First off,Steingraebers were never designed for Jazz pianists as such and have long been recognized as one of the most classic pianos made.

In fact their 5'8 grand is one of them most stunning pianos I have ever played in my entire career.

As opposed to Astoria Steinways, it is a clear tier one piano, quite possibly Germany's very finest!

Choosing between any 2 pianos is of course always a matter of personal taste, but IMHO if placed side-by-side, the difference between these two pianos would be perhaps quite spectacular.

You choose - it's your money!
[and taste..]

Norbert wink


Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 02:02 AM)
_________________________
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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2354861 - Yesterday at 12:16 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2783
Loc: western Wisconsin
I'm sorry to say I've never played...or even seen a Steingraeber 170. If you had the chance to describe the experience of playing both to us, that would be fabulous!
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#2354863 - Yesterday at 12:19 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: Norbert]
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: Norbert
[quote]
I strongly disagree with this.
+1
I love long (useful) sustain. I don't know why a classical pianist wouldn't.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2354866 - Yesterday at 12:29 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: musicpassion]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1656
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: musicpassion
[quote=Norbert]
Quote:

I strongly disagree with this.
+1
I love long (useful) sustain. I don't know why a classical pianist wouldn't.

Of course a long sustain is useful for classical pianists. My experience is usually they don't value it. YMMV.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2354870 - Yesterday at 01:07 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: phantomFive]
ElaineAllegro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Midwest US
Thank you all for your responses. Here are my admittedly non-technical, intermediate adult student impressions:

Steingraeber pluses: Incredibly easier to play, I didn't want to stop, very responsive, amazing quality of sound that washes over me directly so I can track what works when I practice, projects tone well across entire range bass to treble, even the very top notes seem to have distinct and full tone (vs. "toy piano" sound on some other pianos I tried). Not "cookie cutter."

Steingraeber concerns: If it's that easy to play and makes me sound so much better (per friends who listened), will it really help me further develop my technique if there's no struggle? Will I develop sufficient technique that will carry over to performing on less responsive pianos? Depth of sound washing over pianist might start to feel overwhelming in a long practice session. A170 shape is wider than most pianos of its size, less curve; where do you put the singer or string player? [This is really a minor quibble.] How will it wear over time? I hadn't heard of it until a few years ago, so I am not aware of how they hold their quality or value? If I ever needed to trade it in, would it command a competitive price vs. Steinway?

Steinway pluses: The Steinways I've liked best are ones I've played at other peoples' homes, recital halls, etc., and seem to be from the 1930s through 1950s. I don't know if their lovely touch and sound is due to age and use, or differences in manufacture. The new Steinway Ms sound lovely from the listener's location, but less full from the player's bench. There seems to be variation in "precision?" for want of a better word, depth, tone or muddiness, across the piano. Bass seems overly loud vs. treble, and less clear, in several I've tried. (My teacher says that is good for me as I will learn to tone down LH and project RH more, but...) Other pluses: my teacher prefers it, and most places where I have recitals or attempt to perform have Steinways, so it may be worth being more comfortable with that action. Universally known, holds resell or trade-in value.

Steinway concerns: Didn't grab me at first. Now that I've tried several for longer periods of time, I feel more comfortable and confident with it.

The difference is almost like love at first sight (sound) vs. a relationship that develops over time. If I could have a Steinway to practice on and a Steingraeber to perform on, that would be the best of all possibilities, but...

Other thoughts in response to the above?

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#2354872 - Yesterday at 01:22 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1656
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
If it's that easy to play and makes me sound so much better (per friends who listened), will it really help me further develop my technique if there's no struggle? Will I develop sufficient technique that will carry over to performing on less responsive pianos

Going from more responsive to less responsive pianos is easier than vice versa.
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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#2354878 - Yesterday at 01:51 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: phantomFive]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1655
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: phantomFive
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
If it's that easy to play and makes me sound so much better (per friends who listened), will it really help me further develop my technique if there's no struggle? Will I develop sufficient technique that will carry over to performing on less responsive pianos

Going from more responsive to less responsive pianos is easier than vice versa.


This is an oversimplification. It depends on a number of factors and the individual player.
Quite often if I'm in a recording studio that has a beautiful grand in the recording space and an old crappy upright in a rehearsal room I'll warm up on the upright and try to get the 'music' flowing. After getting acclimated to the upright, moving up to the better piano makes 'getting into the zone' much easier because of the more pleasing touch and tone. The better instrument creates a smoother transition into an inspired musical space.

That being said, I think that practicing regularly on a high tier instrument gives a pianist a stronger ability to coax the maximum potential from lesser instruments. I would never be concerned about having too good an instrument to practice on. This will only make you a better and more adaptable musician over time. The only downside is that it might be more difficult to find inspiration on lesser instruments after being 'spoiled' on a great instrument.
My two cents from personal experience....
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

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#2354879 - Yesterday at 01:53 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
ElaineAllegro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Midwest US
To Ed McMorrow, RPT-
Thank you for mentioning two issues I hadn't thought of. I knew to call in an independent Techician when looking at used pianos, but appreciate the idea of doing so for new pianos as well. Also thank you for mentioning the issue re capo D'astro bar, which I've now researched more online.

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#2354887 - Yesterday at 02:20 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
Steingraeber pluses: Incredibly easier to play, I didn't want to stop
Sounds to me like you prefer the Steingraeber.

In my opinion there is no question whatsoever about the durability of a Steingraeber. Resale value is whole different question - and I'm not even sure if that can be known.

I'm not sure I understand your observations about the "downsides" of good touch. Good technique comes from quality practice and working with a good teacher.

Folks who don't like the Steingraeber (I think) usually conclude they like a different sound, and sometimes feel the touch isn't "friendly" to them.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2354889 - Yesterday at 02:31 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
my teacher prefers it,
Toss this one out as irrelevant. It's not your teacher's piano. He/she can buy whatever he/she wants. This is coming from a piano teacher, by the way. I do help my students in buying process, but I don't impose my preference.
Quote:
and most places where I have recitals or attempt to perform have Steinways, so it may be worth being more comfortable with that action.
Are you going to be performing a lot? Once a week? Several times a week? Big concerts? Once a year? If someone is performing twice a week on a Steinway D, then yes I think that's an argument to have a Steinway D at home. But keep it in perspective about what you're actually planning to do. If you're playing twice a year on a Steinway, just visit a friend's house before - it's good practice for performing anyway.
Quote:
Steinway concerns: Didn't grab me at first. Now that I've tried several for longer periods of time, I feel more comfortable and confident with it.The difference is almost like love at first sight (sound) vs. a relationship that develops over time.
First impressions are important. I think a relationship with any piano develops over time - including those you loved at first sight.
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

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#2354898 - Yesterday at 03:21 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1567
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
The room is 13'(feet) by 20' feet; ~9' height.


In that case, you can easily go with a larger piano than these. Some of us even have 9' grands in rooms like that. They can be had used at remarkably low prices, because there are so few buyers who have that much room. I've seen some very nice 1930's Baldwins under $25k.



Edited by JohnSprung (Yesterday at 03:24 AM)
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

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#2354900 - Yesterday at 03:45 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 731
Loc: Leicester, UK
Elaine,

You have a fun choice in front of you. Take your time with it. Because time when choosing a piano is your friend smile

Reading your original posts reveals much about the piano you prefer. And it seems you prefer one specific instrument for sound (and sounding) reasons.

I tried Steingraeber 170s along the path I took to acquiring the larger Steingraeber I have now. They (170s) are known as extraordinary instruments that play and sound to a level far greater than their size. Which is what your description points to. My own experience with 170s (trying them) is they're absolutely unique beasts. If I could have I would have acquired one with my 205! That's how much I liked them.

But that descibes my experience. Really, if you keep playing both instruments (continue to visiit the dealer) you'll know which one you prefer. And that'll be a perfect choice!

Hope this helps ...

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#2354919 - Yesterday at 06:20 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1816
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
I'm a Steingraeber owner, though I also love a good Steinway.

FWIW, to me the key phrase in your comparative assessment is, "...incredibly easier to play, I didn't want to stop."

Isn't that how you want to feel about the piano you'll play every day?
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2354947 - Yesterday at 08:33 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Karl Watson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 378
Friends:

As usual, Ed explains it all in a way that I am totally unable to do. I consider myself a Steinway man and LOVE the various As, the B, C and D as none others.

Geraldine Farrar used to say about voices: when discussing singers, one must always put Rosa Ponselle and Kirsten Flagstad in a category all their own. I feel that way about vintage Chickerings and esp. Masons. But as a universal norm, the larger Steinways define piano tone for me. One is always hearing from friends and others about exceptional Os or Ms or even Ss. I've yet to play one I really liked. It's not the same for the comparable vintage smaller Baldwins. They can be and often are surprisingly good.

The smaller Steingraeber is a remarkable piano and I consider it the best in class. I think it must be said that the perspective of the European pianist is different from ours in the states. They are much more inclined to look toward Bosendorfer, Bechstein and/or Bluthner, all wonderful pianos in their different ways. Although not to my liking, one cannot ignore Fazioli.

The question remains: when will the smaller Steinways be revised ? In the meantime, we must look to our artist-rebuilders to perfect them.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY



Edited by Karl Watson (Yesterday at 10:04 AM)

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#2354954 - Yesterday at 08:55 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Steve Ramirez Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 1098
Loc: El Cajon, California
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro

Steingraeber pluses: Incredibly easier to play, I didn't want to stop, very responsive, amazing quality of sound that washes over me directly so I can track what works when I practice, projects tone well across entire range bass to treble, even the very top notes seem to have distinct and full tone (vs. "toy piano" sound on some other pianos I tried). Not "cookie cutter."


Steinway pluses: The Steinways I've liked best are ones I've played at other peoples' homes, recital halls, etc., and seem to be from the 1930s through 1950s. I don't know if their lovely touch and sound is due to age and use, or differences in manufacture. The new Steinway Ms sound lovely from the listener's location, but less full from the player's bench. There seems to be variation in "precision?" for want of a better word, depth, tone or muddiness, across the piano. Bass seems overly loud vs. treble, and less clear, in several I've tried. (My teacher says that is good for me as I will learn to tone down LH and project RH more, but...) Other pluses: my teacher prefers it, and most places where I have recitals or attempt to perform have Steinways, so it may be worth being more comfortable with that action. Universally known, holds resell or trade-in value.


You rave about this particular Steingraeber but you have good things to say about Steinway pianos in general and most of those things are about what other people think about Steinways, including your teacher.

You're only going to buy one piano, not an entire brand. You're going to play this piano for many years, not your teacher. You're going to hear it from the keyboard, not from several feet away.

I don't mean this as a criticism but I am absolutely blown away by the power of the Steinway name to mess with the minds of pianists. By the way, my teacher feels the same about Steinway as yours does.

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#2354976 - Yesterday at 10:04 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: Steve Ramirez]
ElaineAllegro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Midwest US
It's helpful to hear the RPT, teacher, and musician perspectives. My takeaways: play both pianos a lot more, maybe set up camp at the dealers. This is THE serious upgrade, my piano for life, not anyone else's. While I'd love to be rearranging the living room right now, thank you for reminding me to take the time needed.

I do play ~weekly, mostly informal settings. By now I've had a chance to get familiar with a wide range of pianos so I'm less thrown by the differences in action than a few years ago. So...no need for a Steinway D. :-(

While the room may handle a larger piano, for the two brands I've narrowed it down to (after trying a wide range of contenders), my budget won't go beyond "living room" size.

To Mark Polishook: Thank you for weighing in. Your previous posts and videos were very helpful in my shopping process.

Interesting, one of Steinway's sales points is that its model M has been consistent for umpteen years, vs. Steingraeber's focus on consistent innovation where effective. Both can be virtues from different perspectives, I guess.

Back to practicing...

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#2354981 - Yesterday at 10:13 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Karl Watson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 378
I have to say that the only response to the salesman is that the M has been consistently and invariably mediocre, an instrument that has, from my perspective, virtually nothing to recommend it.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

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#2354992 - Yesterday at 10:53 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2058
Loc: Suffolk, England
Elaine

I can't advise you but what I'd think about is the one I'd regret not having. I'd know what my answer would be!

The other thing I'd consider is a trip to Bayreuth. Have you done the virtual tour on YouTube?

Good luck.
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

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#2354995 - Yesterday at 11:01 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
plumpfingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 171
Loc: Northern California
I agree with all of those who have stressed that this decision is purely personal, but having played a number of Steingraebers of many different sizes, I was always struck that each "punched above its weight" in that each sounded like a larger model. I own a Steingraeber 238 that holds its own with any concert grand I've played or owned. Good luck with your choice and you will undoubtedly get years of joy from whichever you choose.

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#2354996 - Yesterday at 11:02 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
phacke Online   content

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Registered: 10/18/12
Posts: 578
Loc: CO, USA
Greetings, ElaineAllegro-

Regarding the smooth and consistent Steingraeber action, they are very meticulous when putting the action together, and voila, the results.

Regarding where to put the violinist with respect to the Steingraeber, the one I play with likes to stand behind me, so that is an idea for you folks.

On the S&S, the lack of RH volume is something I've seen at the dealers and on naively made rebuilds. Multiple techs, such as Mr. McMorrow, indicate that the out of box S&S hammers need trimming to get their weight in synch with the pitch so that they don't damp the sound. My S&S M is great in the melody. It seemed to me that S&S coming off the line right now were better in this regard too. Anyhow, S&S has to deal with that.

Some plains states S&S dealers don't invest in tech preparation of the pianos, so even if you asked for optimizations to your concerns (lack of treble, touch), they may or may not even know how to improve it. But, why not ask so you can evaluate? If it were me evaluating an S&S, I would check out some of the specialists in the costal states for new and rebuilt ones.

Finally, there are the fundamental differences in the philosophy of the sound.

It is the Steingraeber C212 and S&S A3 and B that get interesting, personally.

Best wishes-


Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
Thank you all for your responses. Here are my admittedly non-technical, intermediate adult student impressions:

Steingraeber pluses: Incredibly easier to play, I didn't want to stop, very responsive, amazing quality of sound that washes over me directly so I can track what works when I practice, projects tone well across entire range bass to treble, even the very top notes seem to have distinct and full tone (vs. "toy piano" sound on some other pianos I tried). Not "cookie cutter."

Steingraeber concerns: If it's that easy to play and makes me sound so much better (per friends who listened), will it really help me further develop my technique if there's no struggle? Will I develop sufficient technique that will carry over to performing on less responsive pianos? Depth of sound washing over pianist might start to feel overwhelming in a long practice session. A170 shape is wider than most pianos of its size, less curve; where do you put the singer or string player? [This is really a minor quibble.] How will it wear over time? I hadn't heard of it until a few years ago, so I am not aware of how they hold their quality or value? If I ever needed to trade it in, would it command a competitive price vs. Steinway?

Steinway pluses: The Steinways I've liked best are ones I've played at other peoples' homes, recital halls, etc., and seem to be from the 1930s through 1950s. I don't know if their lovely touch and sound is due to age and use, or differences in manufacture. The new Steinway Ms sound lovely from the listener's location, but less full from the player's bench. There seems to be variation in "precision?" for want of a better word, depth, tone or muddiness, across the piano. Bass seems overly loud vs. treble, and less clear, in several I've tried. (My teacher says that is good for me as I will learn to tone down LH and project RH more, but...) Other pluses: my teacher prefers it, and most places where I have recitals or attempt to perform have Steinways, so it may be worth being more comfortable with that action. Universally known, holds resell or trade-in value.

Steinway concerns: Didn't grab me at first. Now that I've tried several for longer periods of time, I feel more comfortable and confident with it.

The difference is almost like love at first sight (sound) vs. a relationship that develops over time. If I could have a Steinway to practice on and a Steingraeber to perform on, that would be the best of all possibilities, but...

Other thoughts in response to the above?
_________________________
phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Sonata No. 1 in B minor (BWV 1014) duet with violin
F. Chopin, Prelude 28 (15)

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#2355001 - Yesterday at 11:12 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2348
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
ElaineAllegro,
You should find out if your teacher will be paid a commission by the dealer. Some teachers do take/ask for commissions.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2355004 - Yesterday at 11:15 AM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
MRC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany
You're going to spend hours a day with your piano. The more you love the sound and the feel of the piano, the more you'll want to practice on it.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that a piano that makes you struggle harder will be more beneficial to your technique: it will only make you more frustrated. Take the piano you fall in love with.

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#2355290 - Yesterday at 11:59 PM Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
Dwscamel Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 495
I noticed that your Steinway "pluses", for the most part, weren't pluses at all. "My teacher likes it more, resale value, I like OTHER PEOPLE's STEINWAYS." Who cares about other people's Steinways? All that matters is how you feel about the one that you might end up with . . . !

I agree with the other poster that lamented the power of the brand name to sway people's opinions . . . after all, the only "truth" is your reaction to playing the pianos. It looks like a no-brainer to me to get the Steingraeber; the fact that it's easier to play than most of the pianos you'll encounter should be a plus, not a minus, because you'll enjoy it that much more than you would other pianos. Don't diminish your own enjoyment to accommodate the mediodcrity of lesser pianos.

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#2355295 - 4 minutes 58 seconds ago Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: Dwscamel]
ElaineAllegro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Midwest US
Dwscamel, you are right (about my "plusses" and the power of brand). Thank you for putting my comments into perspective. I was hoping this thread would help with that. It's sometimes hard to see clearly when inside the decision; probably that's why there are so many "this piano vs. that piano" threads. I'm going to enjoy checking out my hunches a few more times, and will plan to post pictures of the outcome.

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#2355299 - 1 minute 25 seconds ago Re: Steingraeber A170 vs. Steinway M - appreciate helpful input [Re: ElaineAllegro]
phantomFive Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 1656
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: ElaineAllegro
and will plan to post pictures of the outcome.

yay!
_________________________
Poetry is rhythm.

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