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#2363205 - 12/18/14 05:39 PM Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand
integris Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 10
So here we are almost in 2015. Lots of digital pianos out there.

Let's start by forgetting all of the ones under $500.

I am looking for a digital piano to practice on when the family is sleeping. My 6'3" Pramberger JP-185 is a little loud smile

Don't care what it looks like. I want the best sound and touch for the money and don't need built-in speakers as I will always be using headphones.

I tried most of the Yamis and while the P255 has exceptional sound, the touch is well calibrated but still too light compared to most acoustic pianos. I am used to bashing on my Pramberger keys and having sore arms after playing for an hour or two. smile I have played a lot of other acoustic pianos with even heavier actions.

I can't believe that even in 2015, digital piano actions are still way too light for any serious preparation for acoustic piano play.

Any suggestions come to mind?

Thanks!

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#2363210 - 12/18/14 05:52 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 888
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
What's the high end of your budget?

Yamaha's N series (N1 - N3) have the closest thing to a real grand piano action because is is comprised of a real piano action.

Kawai has a few models (CA95 and MP11) with their 'Grand Feel' action which emulates closely (a matter of opinion of course) a grand piano action.

When faced with the similar choice I went with the Kawai VPC1 (Virtual Piano Controller) but you need to add piano software for the sound engine. I personally prefer Pianoteq for its responsiveness but again this comes down to personal opinion.

Roland also has some models with their own action designs and the V-piano which has a model sound engine instead of sampled. I have not played on any of these so can't provide an opinion one way or another.


Edited by Vid (12/18/14 06:47 PM)
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2363220 - 12/18/14 06:39 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 375
Loc: White Rock, BC.
I don't know where you are in the world, but please seek out an RD-800 to try.

Turn it on and scroll to Patch #34 "Studio Grand" and just play.

Let us know how you like it.

Jay
_________________________
National Piano Sales Manager for Roland Canada.
www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2363221 - 12/18/14 06:42 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3445
Originally Posted By: integris
I can't believe that even in 2015, digital piano actions are still way too light for any serious preparation for acoustic piano play.

OTOH, many digital actions feel heavier than my Yamaha grand, or one of my students' Bluthner. Seems to me like maybe you're just used to a heavier than average grand...?

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#2363225 - 12/18/14 07:17 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
TonyB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 464
Loc: Twin Cities
I would echo Jay's recommendation about the RD-800. I don't own one, but I have played it and its action feels somewhat heavier than my V-Grand, so that may be to your liking.

Tony
_________________________
Roland V-Grand
Casio PX-5S
My blog: http://ajourneyintomusic.blogspot.com

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#2363260 - 12/18/14 09:39 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
If you like a weightier feel, the Kawai Grand Feel pianos (MP11, or CA65/95) are what you want to go with. The VPC1 is also a contender, but you have to be OK with using software pianos, which WILL give you a much better sound than most on-board sounds. However, there is the hassle of hooking it up to a computer/laptop for the sounds. But really, not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but a great way to get something quite comparable to your acoustic.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2363270 - 12/18/14 10:55 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
bnolsen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 185
Loc: Colorado
your candidates are the kawai mp11 and roland rd800.

it may be hard if not impossible to find these boards to play. i've listed what i think are the equivalent cabinet models which should be at a local dealer:

kawai: ca65, ca85 and some of the cs series have the gf action.

roland: hp506 and hp508 (i think)

IMHO the kawai GF is most realistic. you may like the roland action, its worth trying.

you can try the very top end clavinova but IMHO yamaha seriously needs to up their game still for realistic actions.

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#2363296 - Yesterday at 12:45 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
integris Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 10
Wow you guys are great! Thanks a lot for all of the suggestions.

A lot of companies market "grand feel" or "feels like a grand" actions but quite simply, it is just marketing.

My fear is that if you don't have the actual action of an acoustic piano with the hammers hitting electrical sensors instead of strings (why has no company done this yet?) then you will never get the "feel" of an acoustic piano from an electronic piano.

It amazes me that companies can still sell basic electronic pianos at $1500-$2000 with actions that still feel more like a keyboard than a piano.

I talked to my wife about it and she said "just play the grand even if we are sleeping". LOL That's all great as long as I am playing for fun but if I start repeating the same piece hundreds of times over and over, I think she will change her mind pretty fast! smile

Thanks again. Anyone else that wants to contribute their 2 cents, by all means please don't hesitate.

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#2363314 - Yesterday at 02:17 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 88
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: integris

My fear is that if you don't have the actual action of an acoustic piano with the hammers hitting electrical sensors instead of strings (why has no company done this yet?)


Yamaha does make "hybrid" pianos which are digital pianos with an action designed from acoustic pianos (NU1, N1, N2, N3), but they are more expensive than usual digital pianos.

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#2363318 - Yesterday at 02:44 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
jtsn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/14
Posts: 126
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: integris
My fear is that if you don't have the actual action of an acoustic piano with the hammers hitting electrical sensors instead of strings (why has no company done this yet?)

This had been done long ago, those pianos are called "electric pianos" and they got out of fashion, because they sound nothing like an AP and must be tuned and regulated just like an AP.

Due to the latter even most people interested in EP sounds buy a DP emulating an EP.

Quote:
It amazes me that companies can still sell basic electronic pianos at $1500-$2000 with actions that still feel more like a keyboard than a piano.

DP buyers usually look for an upright piano replacement. Uprights don't feel and play like a grands either. And most people prefer not having sore arms after just one or two hours of practice.
_________________________
Kawai ES100 (broken), Yamaha NP-31 (lent out), Steinberg UR-22, Moddart Pianoteq 5

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#2363331 - Yesterday at 04:04 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Rolf Benz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/11/14
Posts: 14
Hi integris,

I know exactly how you feel as I have done exactly this research as you some months ago. I own a Steinway Grand and also use digital pianos mainly due to their variety of sounds (also vintage E-pianos) and MIDI capabilities. Nevertheless I wanted something with the best action which would be as close as possible to my acoustic.

I would recommend the Kawai MP11 on your shortlist. If you prefer a heavy action, this is the one to go. The breakoff-weight is heavier than on my Steinway, the let-off simulation feels a bit different but touch and feel of the action resembles pretty closely what you would expect from a grand piano.

Yet I have to confess that my instrument required some post-buy service (I mentioned that somewhere else on this forum) but nevertheless, I love this great device and really enjoy playing it.

Concerning Roland, I was quite lucky to check some of their slabs recently. I really liked the action of the RD-700NX, it was slightly lighter than the MP11 but felt a bit more "fluid". But when I played it I was not able to directly compare it to the Kawai so please take this statement with a grain of salt.

Compared to the RD-800 the action of the 700NX felt better and more realistic. I can not give a technical justification for that, I just had the intention that the 700NX was closer to an acoustic grand while the 800 felt more like a very good electronic piano. You would have to try this on your own.

If you like something *REALLY* heavy, there would be the Kawai VPC-1. No internal sounds, just a controller. I only played it once but for my taste it really was a bit too heavy. I needed to "work" those keys, so it would resemble the ultimate heavyweight champion on my list.
If the MP11 and the Rolands are still to light for you, give the VPC-1 a try. You might easily plug a laptop with some decent VST sampler into it so soundwise not a big issue. But you might like the action from what I have read in your posts.

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#2363368 - Yesterday at 07:49 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
leafhound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 44
Loc: Everywhere
grin In this order.

1. Roland - V-Piano (amazing dynamics and expression)
2. Kawai VPC1 - galaxy II (good sound)
3. Yamaha - N3
_________________________
“To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders.” ~ Chang Tzu

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#2363387 - Yesterday at 08:50 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: leafhound]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9679
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: leafhound
grin In this order.

1. Roland - V-Piano (amazing dynamics and expression)
2. Kawai VPC1 - galaxy II (good sound)
3. Yamaha - N3


In my opinion:

1. Best action & all-in-one package, but most expensive: Yamaha N3
2. Almost best action, most realistic sound: Kawai VPC1 + software piano (Ivory, VI Labs, Galaxy, Pianoteq)
3. Okay action, best dynamics and expression, but unrealistic sound: Roland V-Piano

Of course, there are a number of alternative options not on this list.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2363393 - Yesterday at 09:06 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12215
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Have you looked into a Silent Piano option on your current acoustic piano? I know nothing of these personally and have heard varying results. Some say it doesn't change the feel at all, others say it does. Just throwing that out there as an option to research. Perhaps you can look in on the Piano Tech Forum on this site to see what the technicians have to say about them.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2363422 - Yesterday at 10:21 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5541
If you are looking for an acoustic piano replacement and you play classical music, and value the kind of (almost) unlimited tonal and dynamic range that acoustics provide, only the V-Piano & Grand will suffice. Nothing else comes remotely close, especially if you are pushing towards the extremes of expression.

If you just want a keyboard to bang on at night, and want a heavy action, any of the alternatives others have suggested will do.

Classical concert pianists use the AvantGrands for learning new pieces (and the drilling of notes 'into the fingers') and technical stuff that requires a lot of repetitive work, to spare the wear and tear on their acoustics' actions. They don't use them for developing tonal nuances and interpretation - their limited range of expression and dynamics would drive any classical pianist mad. (Of course, if you don't require to play so expressively, all bets are off......)

As for software pianos, my experience is limited to the free Pianoteq samples. They don't 'feel' in the least realistic, and sound totally disconnected to my playing, as if there is an intermediary robot (similar to the fly-by-wire system in modern aircraft) between my fingers and the sound that comes out.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2363437 - Yesterday at 11:05 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: bennevis]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 867
Originally Posted By: bennevis
As for software pianos, my experience is limited to the free Pianoteq samples. They don't 'feel' in the least realistic, and sound totally disconnected to my playing, as if there is an intermediary robot (similar to the fly-by-wire system in modern aircraft) between my fingers and the sound that comes out.


To me, and disregarding sound issues, this very much sounds like a latency problem, possible coupled to a key velocity curve adaptation problem. And it sounds familiar. I have never managed (so far, and short of buying a dedicated computer) to couple my VPC1 to a software sound with a latency that was short enough for nuanced playing with good tactile feedback and for avoiding a 'disconnected' feel. (Which is why my VPC is coupled to another instrument rather than a software.)

Thus, if as a classical pianist you go the software route, expect to (1) buy a powerful and suitable computer that really is up to the task, and (2) to fiddle around with the setup and its settings for quite some time.

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#2363443 - Yesterday at 11:15 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: maurus]
PianoManChuck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/12
Posts: 113
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: maurus
Originally Posted By: bennevis
As for software pianos, my experience is limited to the free Pianoteq samples. They don't 'feel' in the least realistic, and sound totally disconnected to my playing, as if there is an intermediary robot (similar to the fly-by-wire system in modern aircraft) between my fingers and the sound that comes out.


To me, and disregarding sound issues, this very much sounds like a latency problem, possible coupled to a key velocity curve adaptation problem. And it sounds familiar. I have never managed (so far, and short of buying a dedicated computer) to couple my VPC1 to a software sound with a latency that was short enough for nuanced playing with good tactile feedback and for avoiding a 'disconnected' feel. (Which is why my VPC is coupled to another instrument rather than a software.)

Thus, if as a classical pianist you go the software route, expect to (1) buy a powerful and suitable computer that really is up to the task, and (2) to fiddle around with the setup and its settings for quite some time.

In my experience (take Ravenscroft from VI Labs for example), I get latency if I run it as a standalone program... but if I use it as a VST inside of my DAW then the latency problem disappears!

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#2363458 - Yesterday at 11:46 AM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: PianoManChuck]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1505
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: PianoManChuck

In my experience (take Ravenscroft from VI Labs for example), I get latency if I run it as a standalone program... but if I use it as a VST inside of my DAW then the latency problem disappears!

That was a quirk peculiar to the UVI workstation where, as a standalone, it suffered high latency whereas within a host it behaved itself (only UVI would know why!). My guess is that UVI's developers have sorted this out by now but I haven't checked the latest revision.

The parallel here with sample players living inside hosts would be the Kontakt player (UVI's counterpart) which behaves impeccably as a standalone.

@maurus, you say you had latency problems when running software within a computer. Can you remember what the latency was set to?

<edit: pronoun deficiency>


Edited by dire tonic (Yesterday at 12:47 PM)

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#2363464 - Yesterday at 12:00 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
bnolsen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/14
Posts: 185
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: integris
Wow you guys are great! Thanks a lot for all of the suggestions.

A lot of companies market "grand feel" or "feels like a grand" actions but quite simply, it is just marketing.

My fear is that if you don't have the actual action of an acoustic piano with the hammers hitting electrical sensors instead of strings (why has no company done this yet?) then you will never get the "feel" of an acoustic piano from an electronic piano.

It amazes me that companies can still sell basic electronic pianos at $1500-$2000 with actions that still feel more like a keyboard than a piano.


Physics and engineering. A mechanical system can be modelled by system of levers, pullies, weights, friction, etc. Once a proper model has been established and reduced it can be recreated to various levels. It all depends on the accuracy of the model and how well its recreated. That's where the engineering kicks in.

One thing going for the modelling is the variety of piano actions (between and within brands) out there. You just need to recreate a system that falls into the family of grand pianos and not necessarily exactly copy just one.

The yamaha clavinova clp990 was an interesting beast. If yamaha had pursued it instead of killing it and if competitors would have been more sophisticated at the time digital piano actions might be way ahead of where they are today.

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#2363473 - Yesterday at 12:13 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Alexander Borro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 94
Loc: UK
Only from beginner player here, but I would say with a decent PC nowadays latency can be made to very acceptable levels on a dedicated PC, and I would imagine even for the most seasoned players. There also dedicated pro level PCI soundcards that will shorten latency even more but the cost of those can be as much as a PC itself, like the the Pro audio ones.

I any case, I've always build my own PC systems. What I can say is that in my case use a fairly standards USB 2 audio interface with a decent driver, but the CPU is very quick and heavily overclocked from the stock 3.5 MHz up to 4.5 MHz. I can actually compare the native piano sound coming out of the digital cabinet and the software piano coming out of the speakers and they seem to be simultaneous to me ... as far as I can tell. I can max everything out in Ivory i.e. no of voices, put my arms on the keys with the damper pedal down and press more keys I would ever do playing, and as rapid as I can and the system doesn't bat an eyelid, not a crackle or pop.

The processing latency in my case can be brought down to about < 1 msec wit Ivory 2, be it in Cubase or with the standalone cantabile, pianoteq does great too.

I couldn't tell you what the actual complete roundtrip latency is, but it will of course be more than 1 msec quite a bit. That said, the speed of sound is 340 m/sec, so even for sound to travel 1 meter, and with the bouncing around that already amounts to of the order of milliseconds even with acoustic setups. So technology is getting there, thanks to the speed of light laugh

Probably my dream setup in future would be something like the VPC1 with software for home at some point in the future ( If I don't find it too heavy action when I come to upgrade, anyway that will be years ahead.)

Just beginning to get that feeling that the samples build into the digital consoles and sound engine are secondary to me more and more, nice to have, but no match for the software.

For < 2000 pounds, a killer PC can be bought, + a VPC1. Even with that adding it all up it is not that much in the scheme of digitals. Even a Yamaha CLP 585 which presumably would be nothing special in terms of action and sound for a good pianist, and that is 3K !

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#2363516 - Yesterday at 02:04 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
Gretel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By: integris
It amazes me that companies can still sell basic electronic pianos at $1500-$2000 with actions that still feel more like a keyboard than a piano.


This sounds either uneducated or arrogant. Not sure about the action on your grand, by my upright has an action that is a lot less enjoyable or precise than most actions that I have encountered in digital pianos >1000$.

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#2363517 - Yesterday at 02:04 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 867
@dire tonic and others: I've posted about my settings in other threads and don't want to repeat that here. In my experience a latency of 3ms or so, and anything above, is disconnecting the immediacy between the tactile feel of the keys and the perceived shaping of the sound. With my laptop (a MacBook Pro but definitely not the best there is) I could (so far) not bring it below that value without creating digital sound artefacts, dropouts etc. YMMV.

To play my little red one with the VPC, on the other hand, is a very satisfying experience (as I've said here before).

_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#2363523 - Yesterday at 02:28 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: maurus]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1505
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: maurus
@dire tonic and others: I've posted about my settings in other threads and don't want to repeat that here.

It's a two or three digit number - quicker to repeat it than type "I've posted about my settings in other threads and don't want to repeat that here."

...but putting that to one side...

Quote:

In my experience a latency of 3ms or so, and anything above, is disconnecting the immediacy between the tactile feel of the keys and the perceived shaping of the sound. With my laptop (a MacBook Pro but definitely not the best there is) I could (so far) not bring it below that value without creating digital sound artefacts, dropouts etc. YMMV.

To play my little red one with the VPC, on the other hand, is a very satisfying experience (as I've said here before).

I'm guessing your VPC1 is controlling your little red one via MIDI? So if you play a two-handed chord, say eight notes, you're apparently satisfied with a timing spread within that chord of anything up to 8 millisecs - quite bit more than that if you happen to be using partial pedalling through the playing of the chord. And that doesn't even take into account the response time of the Nord.

How do you reconcile that with a claimed intolerance of 3 millisecs?

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#2363525 - Yesterday at 02:39 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: bennevis]
Vid Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 888
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Originally Posted By: bennevis
As for software pianos, my experience is limited to the free Pianoteq samples. They don't 'feel' in the least realistic, and sound totally disconnected to my playing, as if there is an intermediary robot (similar to the fly-by-wire system in modern aircraft) between my fingers and the sound that comes out.


I have the totally opposite experience with Pianteq. I wonder as others have pointed out that you may have experienced latency issues.
_________________________
Kawai VPC1, Pianoteq, Galaxy Vintage D

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#2363527 - Yesterday at 02:42 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: Gretel]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1505
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Gretel
my upright has an action that is a lot less enjoyable or precise than most actions that I have encountered in digital pianos >1000$.

- yes, and I'd bet most who have experience of both would agree with that.

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#2363532 - Yesterday at 02:53 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: Vid]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5541
Originally Posted By: Vid
Originally Posted By: bennevis
As for software pianos, my experience is limited to the free Pianoteq samples. They don't 'feel' in the least realistic, and sound totally disconnected to my playing, as if there is an intermediary robot (similar to the fly-by-wire system in modern aircraft) between my fingers and the sound that comes out.


I have the totally opposite experience with Pianteq. I wonder as others have pointed out that you may have experienced latency issues.

I guessed it may be that.

But I use a MacBook Pro (bought new in 2013). If that's not 'powerful' enough to cope with software piano without obvious latency, what is?
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2363534 - Yesterday at 03:00 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: bennevis]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1505
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: bennevis

But I use a MacBook Pro (bought new in 2013). If that's not 'powerful' enough to cope with software piano without obvious latency, what is?


If the MacBook Pro has user-adjustable settings for latency and you don't know how to set them, the results could quite easily be unacceptable.

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#2363543 - Yesterday at 03:20 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: Vid]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3900
Loc: North Carolina
Pianoteq is the one piano on which it was easiest to minimize the latency. (Too bad I don't like the sound!) frown

To get any other libraries to work I had to bump up to an external sound card. (ASIO4All helped reduce latency on my old laptop, but not enough.)
Originally Posted By: Vid
Originally Posted By: bennevis
As for software pianos, my experience is limited to the free Pianoteq samples. They don't 'feel' in the least realistic, and sound totally disconnected to my playing, as if there is an intermediary robot (similar to the fly-by-wire system in modern aircraft) between my fingers and the sound that comes out.
I have the totally opposite experience with Pianteq. I wonder as others have pointed out that you may have experienced latency issues.

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#2363544 - Yesterday at 03:20 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: integris]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 867
Bennevis, I really wonder whether the tolerance of different players concerning latency is indeed quite different. Some of us want to have the feeling of being able to shape the tone of polyphonic voices with the fingertips, others bang away chords.

dire tonic, I've had this discussion before. The midi delay of complex chords is equally unacceptable to me, and I can hear and discern it. But then I rarely play music consisting of homophonic, unbroken 8-note chords. I should add that I just have to go to another room to sit down at a grand for comparisons, and that of course I did a lot of A/B comparisons between VPC/Nord and VPC/MacBook Pro, with a number of different settings. I'm not saying no one can manage to get a pianistically satisfying setup this way but I am relating my experience that it is harder than I thought, and I've not succeeded so far. Again, YMMV.


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#2363545 - Yesterday at 03:26 PM Re: Experienced pianist: digital piano to "replace" grand [Re: MacMacMac]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5541
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
Pianoteq is the one piano on which it was easiest to minimize the latency. (Too bad I don't like the sound!) frown


I don't like the Pianoteq sound either, and have no inclination to try it out again.

Not even if someone here volunteered to fly out (by hot jet and helicopter) to my humble little abode and set my Mac up for me to minimize the latency........ wink
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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