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Joined: Oct 2009
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Hello everyone. Please help me decide:
Yamaha CG2 (Brand new) ($19.5K) Kawai RX-6 (10 yrs old, excellent condition) ($20k) Kawai GX-2 (Brand new) ($20.K)
I like the pricing on Kawai, more bang for the buck (I think). Yamaha kinda pricy, don't you agree?
I like the sound and quality of those above.
Thanks.
Kawai GX3
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You have (at least) two different questions here: used vs. new, and Kawai vs. Yamaha. Yamaha vs. Kawai, only you can decide which you like better. Both make excellent pianos.
New vs. used: have an independent tech evaluate that RX6. If he says it's in like new condition then obviously this is the best bargain of what you are currently considering. Then you'd need to consider if buying new is more important to you, or is getting the best piano for your money the priority. 10 years isn't old for a piano, as long as it is well maintained, and from an gentle environment (not a school or church).
Pianist and Piano Teacher
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There aren't any Yamaha reps on here, so I will just say Kawai is better. Does that help? I personally prefer the sound of Kawais to Yamaha, but again my preference is just that--personal. If a tech blesses the RX, it certainly doesn't sound like a bad deal. Have you looked at any manufacturer or do you have your heart set on a Japanese piano?
2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Matriarch | ASM Hydrasynth 49 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 10 Rev4 | Yamaha ModX 61
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I'm the opposite of Markarian here, I prefer the Yamaha sound (and action) over Kawai.
However, he is ultimately right in that only you, the piano buyer can make that call.
Last edited by BrianDX; 12/19/14 09:02 AM.
Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3) Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
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The RX6 is a lot of piano for that price - normally I'd suggest that if the pianos are similarly sized you should go for the one that speaks to you the most when you play it, but the RX6 is significantly bigger than the other two, and it's hard to ignore the advantages that brings. I'd have a tech check it out just to be safe, but if you liked all three when playing them, and the RX6 gets a tech's stamp of approval, that's where I'd put my money.
Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln ASB Piano Service
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I would consider the rx-6 if it's got the millennium III cf action. If it's the previous generation abs action, I'd pass. Mainly because the abs is too heavy for my liking. Millennium III is a superior action in my opinion. But it's a personal thing obviously. 2004 was right around the time of the changeover.
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One other thing I would add here. As far as the Yamaha GC line is concerned: My wife and I did not care for the feel of the keys, sound quality, among other things. To us, the GC line has "starter piano" written all over it. That's a lot of coin to spend on something that you may not be happy with in 3-5 years.
I've talked to several folks in different parts of the country who have been able to step up to the Yamaha CX line, for not a lot more money.
Plus, there are tons of used C-series pianos to be had, many in great shape, that can be easily had for quite a bit under $20k. I would buy a used C2 in the 10-20 year old range that is provably in great condition over a new GC2 any day of the week.
Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3) Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
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Thank you for the input. I really like the Kawai GX2. I was told it is one of Kawai best scale design. However, I also like to have the option open for the RX-6 (used). I think the Kawai dealer offered reasonable price for them. Yamaha dealer offered the price of GC2 near 20K which is the same price of the Kawai GX2 and I think that is overpriced. Kawai GX2 should be equivalent to the Yamaha CX2, not the GC2. I am going to see the Kawai dealer soon.
Kawai GX3
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I agree with every response I've read here. I'll just comment on the prices since you seem to have a strong interest in that aspect.
The price of the ten year old piano can only be judged in the light of its condition, which could be average, better than average, or worse than average. Depending on that, the price could be average, lower than average, or higher than average.
The discount offered on the new GX-2 is very large.
The discount offered on the GC2 is nothing special.
GC's are stripped down models of C series. They are in Yamaha's product lineup because C series prices have become so high that they are unrealistic for many piano buyers.
Very few shoppers will come to a Yamaha showroom thinking: "I gotta have me a GC." They will make the acquaintance of the GC when it's clear to sales personnel that they can't or won't pay up for a C.
So for the typical Yamaha retailer, the spread between his price on a C-2 and his price on a GC-2 is what's most important. The GC is intended to recapture the shopper's attention before sticker shock sends him out the door. I should admit that I'm personally biased against piano lines that are developed for marketing reasons.
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Provided the Kawai RX-6 is checked by an independent technician and gets the all-clear, and of course, provided you like it, I believe that it would be the most musically satisfying of the selection as it is a bigger grand piano. From my experience of playing and listening to the RX-6 model, I think that it was the finest model of the RX series.
If it were made in 2004, it would have the Millenium III action.
I like both Yamaha and Kawai pianos. Both manufacturers make excellent, durable pianos which are affordable and represent very good value financially. Tonal preferences are subjective and I believe that the quality of care-giving for the piano, whether it be a Kawai or a Yamaha, by both the owner and the piano tuner/technician, has a big influence in shaping the sound of the instrument to one's desire.
Season's Greetings!
Robert.
Last edited by Robert 45; 12/19/14 01:39 PM.
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If it were made in 2004, it would have the Millenium III action.
It would, but when a seller says "10 years old", it often means 11, 12 or more years old. in reality. Also an RX6 bought in 2004 may well have been made in 2003. It's something to check, in any case. It affects sale price too. I'd pay a lot more for an MIII action. I think the Millenium III action is something I would want as a minimum requirement on an RX piano - it's that much better than its predecessor, IMO.
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To sum it up:
Have a tech check out the RX6, pull the action to see if it's got Carbon Fiber wippens, get the date of manufacture from Kawai using the serial number, and if it's good, go for it. A seven footer makes a world of difference in sound and character when playing. When it comes to grand pianos, "bigger is better" isn't a hard and fast rule, but it's not a bad rule of thumb. Good luck.
2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Matriarch | ASM Hydrasynth 49 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 10 Rev4 | Yamaha ModX 61
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Yes, Ando, I was caught out on that once. In 1998 I bought a "new" Boston GP 178 which I assumed was brand new. After getting the piano installed I found out from the serial number and on checking with Steinway that it had been made in 1993.
Caveat emptor! A case of buyer beware.
Greetings!
Robert.
Last edited by Robert 45; 12/19/14 02:57 PM.
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Provided the Kawai RX-6 is checked by an independent technician and gets the all-clear, and of course, provided you like it, I believe that it would be the most musically satisfying of the selection as it is a bigger grand piano. +1: a no-brainer, really. Once you would show serious interest to buy a Yamaha C5 or Kawai RX6 new, same dealers would quickly call the other, smaller models mentioned by you "entry level" It's funny how quickly things change when showing money, i.e. "more money"... P.S. a widespread malaise in the industry. Solution: perhaps find pianos which offer you same or 'near same' quality as musical instruments among their smaller as well as larger models. How to? Specs, specs, specs - play,play,play! Norbert
Last edited by Norbert; 12/19/14 05:51 PM.
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I have exciting news I would like to share with you all. After taking in the advice from all of you (thanks a lot by the way), I've decided to fly to AZ Piano in Phoenix, Arizona. Jason, the owner of AZ Piano has a large display facility and a large wharehouse. I really like Jason. He is very humble and he doesn't mark up the price like any other dealer I've spoke to. He carries a lot of new/used (mostly new) Kawai and Schimmel pianos. He also has a few used Steinway, Balwin, and Young Chang.
Anyway, I came there with the intention to purchase a brand new Kawai GX2 or the 12 years old RX-6. I really like the RX-6. However, my wife doesn't want me to buy any used piano (superstition reasons). Jason sold his last Polished Ebony GX2 yesterday and he only has Satin Ebony GX2 on display. (Again, wife doesn't want Satin Ebony. I like it though). So Jason offer me the Polished Ebony GX3 for a very very low price. I took the offer without any further negotiation. I can tell you that you can't the the GX3 at the price he offered me. I signed the paperwork and waiting it to be delivered in the first week of February. (I can't sleep now since I am so anxious to have it now). I spent about 3 hours there playing different pianos ranging from 5' to 9'. I will post pictures soon. He also has a cherry red custom Schimmel 7' grand that I really like but it is out of my budget.
I was playing the GX2 and GX3 side by side and comparing the sound. At first, I like the sound of GX2 more since it has a louder/clearer sound. I think I like it because I owed a U3 Yamaha and maybe I get used to the louder sound? The GX3 has a richer but much more mellower (dull maybe) sound which I didn't like it at first. But after playing both grand for some times, I start to like the GX3 also. However, I am not sure which sound is better since I am not an expert level. Jason told me the the GX3 sounds better but he told me that he will have someone do some voicing to it and it only take them about few minutes. He said that they can apply a think chemical on the hammer to give the sound more attack to sound a little more like the GX2 since he knows that is what I like but he recommended not to make it sound like the GX2 but half way from GX3 to GX2 (in term of attack) I am still undecided as to whether should I have him voice it at all. He said that he will have a guy (an expert who does voicing) to come and make adjustment at his own expense. So, please let me know whether I should voicing the GX3 at all or just leave it like that and my ear will adjust to the sound as time goes by. Thanks.
Last edited by Vu Le; 01/18/15 12:36 AM.
Kawai GX3
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Sweet. Congrats! And welcome to the growing Kawai club here on PW!!
If it were me I'd ask the dealer if he can extend his free voicing offer for at least 6 months. The tone might brighten up a bit on it's own.
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Below is my dream piano. I forgot to take a picture of the inside of the piano. Gorgeous. All red inside with gold emblems.
Kawai GX3
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Don't forget that the GX3 will most likely brighten with some time and use. If the mellowness does not offend you now, you may want to think about waiting on the voicing. The thing about hardening the hammers chemically is that it's not easy to undo.
Voicing can always be done down the road after you have the piano fine tuned in the situation it will live in, and after you've gotten to know if for a few months.
Baldwin M Casio PX-330 Casio AP-45
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I completely agree with jrcallan. Radical treatment of the hammers by chemical hardening is not something that you should do before the piano has settled in your house and given at least a couple of tunings. Hammers always get harder with use anyway. You also need to hear how the piano sounds in its new situation before tonal adjustments are made.
Congratulations on buying a new Kawai GX3!
Kind regards,
Robert.
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Congrats Vu!
I had exactly the same buying experience as you. The dealer had every size of Kawai grands and I had played the RX2 at another dealer location. Had the dealer with the GX2 been able to break free the day I returned, that piano would probably be sitting here. However, I'm glad the way things worked out, as I'm sure you will too.
The GX3 is a lot of piano. I had a Yamaha for 17 years and to my untrained ear, the Kawai sounded vastly different. Again, my opinion about the Kawai tone mirrored yours, to a tee. My RX had to grow on me. I know Robert45 gets sick of hearing this but thanks to sharing his many insights, observations and responses to my endless pestering, I have an expanded appreciation for acoustic pianos, especially my RX3. I don't have the vocabulary but I'm learning, which for me, is just as fun as playing.
You asked about voicing, so I'll respond. This coming April will mark 2 years of ownership. I held off (again thanks to Robert) voicing until I lived with the piano for some time. I'm in the camp with others, wait. I think voicing would be a pretty drastic first move. Robert said pianos grow up, like kids. He's right, many of the issues I had disappeared over time. I tune 4X a year and on the next to last visit, my tech wanted to voice the treble stating it sounded harsh to him. I didn't hear that and I wanted to "hear it" before making changes. Like I said, I'm learning. I prefer a bright tone so on our next tune, we're going to voice but just a little with the goal of keeping it a bit bright for my tastes.
My tech is very patient and he teaches me, which I considered a requirement. Ok, enough about me, this is about you! Feel free to PM me if you like. I'm so happy for you. I don't think I could wait that long. I think I bought mine on a Thursday and it delivered on Saturday. I took pix and videoed the arrival. The guys just laughed and said everyone does that now. I think the GX series is stunningly beautiful, you're gonna love it. I just stare at mine, to the point it's worrying people.
Congrats again, what a blast.........blob
KAWAI RX-3 BLAK YAMAHA GRANTOUCH GT1
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