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Thanks for your thoughts here Richard.

I don't want to turn this thread into a "European model vs. U.S. model" discussion, as that is not why I started this thread.

I don't agree that somehow method books are for younger learners. The Faber series I have studied so far has been geared very specifically for older learners, and so far I have really benefited from it. I think you also underestimate the amount of interaction between teacher and student, method book or not. At least in my case, the books are not just "following the numbers". In other cases, I can't say.

Finally, your post seems to imply that I'm saying that with the right method books chosen, the choice of a teacher is somehow less important. In my experience the ONLY critical choice is the teacher, period.

For example, in another thread there is much discussion about shaping phrases, and most of the folks discussing it do not have a teacher. Well, of course Faber has several sections about this concept, but without my teacher really putting my feet to the fire as to HOW this is REALLY done, the book would not really help in the long run.

This is how I will summarize my feelings about this. We can agree to disagree as to the most effective way to acquire the tools necessary to advance piano skills, method vs. something else. However, I think we can probably agree that the teacher accounts for 80-90% of the total learning experience at the very least.

Brian

Brian, I think we must have misunderstood each other.

I don't see where you get that.

Presumably you meant "only" for younger learners here. But what I said was that they were better suited to younger learners. The older you are, the wider your range of experiences, musical tastes, physical skills and talents, intellectual leanings and emotional sensitivity and expressiveness, the less likely you are to fit that norm and, in a one-to-one situation with a good teacher, a tailored approach will outstrip a method significantly.

The teacher can bypass teaching the skills you have developed naturally, the method book cannot. The method book must use separate lessons for each little facet but a teacher can skip a few lessons and make sure you don't miss anything by watching and listening to you. A method book must perforce be generic but a teacher can mould and craft an individual method to the student.

If you happen to be north of Rome you can get there by going due south. The method must take you round to the east first if that is it's planned course. It matters not that you've already been there. Faber has suited you so you may not see this in the same light. That's OK.

Again, I don't see where you get that. I thought I showed it to be most important thing.

She wasn't trashing them.
How random her choice was is questionable. She clearly knew the series and must either have known what to pick or could see at a glance what would do the trick but she didn't throw it in the trash can, nor did she write off what he's already covered.

Yes, to a point. But the longer you stay with a method the slower your progress is unless you just happen to progress in the same order as the generic student the course is aimed at.

Yes, we can!

Yes, we can agree to agree on that point!

I do use the Faber books - but they are the only adult books I have experience with, so I would be hard pressed to say that they are better or worse than anything else. I have to admit being a bit disappointed with the All-in-One book 2 because it doesn't seem that the theory section is engaging me as much as book 1. This could be because its harder, or because I'm less interested

I am spending more and more of my time on pieces outside of the method book. I question myself whether this is a good idea or not. My teacher seems fine with it. The issue, I wonder, is whether by not collecting pieces that have a similar and progressive theme, by learning things piece-meal - will this hurt my progress?

For example, not learning a number of pieces with the same key.

Anyway, I'm saying all this just because - yes, I am learning with Faber books and so I'm following this Faber Grad thread. But that doesn't mean I believe Faber to be the be-all and end-all.

So if your teacher doesn't like Faber, I would keep an open mind, see how things progress, and form an opinion in a few months after giving your teacher's approach the best shot you can.

Don

I'm back.

I had my first lesson with my teacher. I brought 3 method books with me. We're skipping book 1 but we'll be going through book 2. This week's homework is Brahm's Lullaby since I didn't know how lead sheets work.

Her priority for me is to learn all the cords...all of them. Good thing I only have lessons every other week. I won't be able to show much progress in a week.

She also has me doing Hanon and work on classical repertoire songs. We'll also be going through the Suzuki piano accompaniment for Violin Book 1 and 2. So yeah, tons of work ahead but I'm really glad that I'm working with a teacher.

BTW, Brian, you have a new avatar. Did you take that photo?

Nice to hear from you littlebirdblue!

Yes, that photo was taken during my 2005 trip to Japan.

Last night's lesson was very significant in several ways, as my teacher and I had a very detailed discussion along the lines of Richard's comments about method books and learning in general.

Here are the highlights:

For the older beginner my teacher has come to really like the Faber books. This comes after many many years of her studying and trying about a dozen different learning methods.

She basically said that Books 1 and 2 are kind like a lesson plan that a teacher would use to teach an adult to read and write properly. Along with the lesson plan (which sequentially introduces required skills) there is much one-on-one instruction needed which only a teacher can provide. This is where the self-learner can get into trouble.

However, once you progress beyond Book 2 things start to change. Faber Level 3A and beyond still does a good job of slowly introducing more advanced skills, however she generally starts moving toward repertoire books and away from method books. According to her, Faber is very good for the early elementary to late elementary student, but not beyond that.

In fact, starting next week we will be splitting my studies 50/50 between Faber Level 3A and repertoire books by Helen Marlais.

Apparently I'm the first student she has had in a long time to move into Level 3A, mostly at my insistence. Her more advanced students are completely out of method books. However, for me the Faber approach so far has been very much in sync with the way I learn and process information.

So here is my 5 year goal:

Keep progressing through Faber Level 3B, 4, and 5. At the same time, start moving a larger percentage of my studies into carefully chosen repertoire books. Of course, depending on what happens, I may leave the Faber series earlier than that, we'll see.

And finally, if I hit a series of walls (which is likely to happen) adjust the schedule out as needed. According to my teacher, I have enough natural ability and work ethic to eventually progress to the Intermediate level. If I ever get to that point, I will be 100% fulfilled.

Just passed the 1/3 finished mark for Level 3A.

There are some really good pieces here, including several with Alberti bass, slightly more advanced left/right hand coordination, and tenuto just to name a few.

Things seem get harder from here on in, other than a slight respite teaching 3/8 and 6/8 time signatures that at first glance look quite easy.

Also spending time with pieces from the Helen Marlais Festival Collection, which fit right in with Faber at this point.

I'm really pleased with this material right now, challenging to say the least, but doable within a reasonable amount of time and practice.

I've also reduced the pressure I've been putting on myself, no rush to get things done. I'm now bringing pieces that are not quite there yet to my lesson, and allowing my teacher to do what she does best, fine-tune my technique and help me fix problems with sight-reading, timing, and dynamics.

Well I'll bump this up one more time I promise.

Just got to the 1/2 way mark for Level 3A. Lots of fun things to play, some pretty hard but doable.

As I've said before, Faber does a real nice job of moving the ball down the field without causing undue stress.

If no one is still interested in this thread, I'll stop posting in two weeks.

Brian - it sounds like you are making good progress!

I don't contribute to this thread because
(a) I'm not making particularly good progress - I'm down to only about 25% of my time on Faber and it is also getting harder
(b) I'm doing different books (I'm doing 1&2 All-in-one) from you, so I can't actually see the music you are doing and don't appreciate the progress

So I do read each of your updates but not sure how I can contribute to the thread.



Don

Not much new to post here. I'm just over half way through book 2 Accelerated Piano Adventures for Older...

Nice to hear from you guys. No worries, post something here when you can.

It also appears that after Thanksgiving I'll be temporarily putting Faber on hold while I do some more work in the Marlais Festival Collection.

Also, starting in January my teacher and I will begin work on the Piano Guild auditions work for later in the Spring.

I want to keep progressing in the Faber series, but after 14 months straight, I could use a break...

It's always great to see posts of you all progressing. I'm still "trucking" along. Off and on lessons; my teacher/friend is very patient with me, but I've lurked my way back into pounding away on to the keys. Threads like this always give me hope.

Same here as well, although I'm on a two-week "road trip" with family, so I'll have to get things rolling again after New Year's.

One other tidbit; I have have found that the Faber "Developing Artist" series may be a great supplement once you reach reach the Level 2 / Level 3A level. May purchase this early next year.

Hi, I am finishing the last few pieces of Faber (for older beginner), level 2. For me the struggle is coordinating the timing with the pedal! So good to hear that so many are using this series as well as Alfreds. Once I finish this I move onto Alfreds for later beginner level 2. I find using two different series consolidates learning. How about other people' experience? I am encouraged when I hear people's comments and feedback. Cheers!

To Brian DX, I am new to the forum, and old as in age! Dontknow how to go about making the quote box yet!!
I am not familiar with the Helen Malais series. How are you finding it please?
Would love to hear how you are progressing.

Hi Gemgem, welcome!

First off, I am enjoying the "Succeeding With The Masters" book 1 by Marlais. Once you get to the end of Faber level 2, this book provide a great supplement.

I am currently in the second half of Faber Level 3A, and really enjoying it. I have to tell you, I studied with the Alfred's book many years ago, and I much prefer the Faber books, especially once you proceed past the mid-elementary point.

I'm on a road trip in Toronto for the next 3 days with limited internet access. I would be more than happy to continue this discussion after the first of the year.

Regards,
Brian

Haven't heard of the 'Developing artist'. The structure and content look very similar to the Repertoire books from the RCM Celebration Series.

I think the official series name is "Succeeding With The Masters" compiled with Helen Marlais.

Each book in the series has pieces from four different musical periods. My only complaint is that the difficulty of the pieces range from really easy to moderately hard.

That is why I may be switching to the Faber "Developing Artist" series, which are structured the same way, seem to contain a uniform level of difficulty, and also have some teacher-student duet pieces.

http://pianoadventures.com/publications/mainLibraries/devArtist.html

My monthly update:

I'm about 4 weeks away from finishing Level 3A. There have been some amazing pieces I've learned, including a couple of older compositions in their original form.

One addendum to my last post: I have decided to switch to the the Faber "Developing Artist" series in March for supplemental material. First, the pieces are more interesting and diverse, and they are closely aligned with the Piano Adventures books overall. Second, they are separated by periods of time just like the Marlais books.

There are some easier pieces (mid-elementary) and slightly harder ones as well (late elementary), so my teacher and I will be carefully selecting which ones I will work on first.

For those of you in Level 2A/2B the Preparatory Literature book has some real nice supplemental pieces (many with teacher duets).