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#236827 - 01/07/07 12:44 AM Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
NEPHRONOS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 13
Loc: NOCAL
Hello to all of you,

This is my first post. However, I have been reading all of you for over the last few months. I must begin by saying that I do not consider myself a piano expert. I am not a technician, I am not a piano dealer, and I am not a concert pianist. I have grown up all my life with my Baldwin grand #205109. I have always loved my Baldwin and think that it has a wonderful sound. I am now a father of two girls who are now learning to play and my wife also plays. We are having our new house built soon, and it is significantly larger than the one we are in now. So, I thought it would be wonderful to have another grand piano so, that we could play together easier. To this end I have been saving up my nickels and dimes and have come up w/ $55,000 to purchase a piano. I wanted a piano at least as good as my Baldwin but would like something w/ a little different tone. So, several months ago I embarked on a huge journey of education and boy was I surprised. I was not expecting the world of pianos to be so complicated. I really like to research things before I make a decision. As a result, I have probably talked to most of you, who are dealers. I have also had an intense and extended consultation with Larry Fine (what a wonderful guy!).

During my research, I took careful notes and wrote out a type of article and also came up with my own ranking of the pianos based on the Piano Book, its Supplements, visiting dealers, talking to the piano companies when possible, talking to technicians, reading the brand websites, and reading pwf. I did this to consolidate my thoughts and because Larry Fine informed me that he was not planning to come out with a new edition of The Piano Book. He will cont. w/ the supplements annually. I was encouraged by my wife and a concert piano player friend to post this note after a series of conversations I had with them from the posts I had been reading here.

There seems to be a lot of disagreement and argument on the forum about a great many things dealing with different brands and weather one is better than the other. Many times tone and sound is used as the primary cause. I am not a connoisseur of grand pianos. I know that many of you are. With the exception of my Baldwin, I have no experience with the technical aspects of this wonderful instrument. It seems to me that many of you are more at odds than people who are excited to share a passion. I would consider myself a connoisseur of fine mechanical watches and a specific type of hard stone fine art sculpture. So, I do know a bit about connoisseurship.

The connoisseur understands the intricacy of the manufacturing process and no detail is without importance. Quality, consistancy, materials, mechanization, country of origin, and handmadeness is all important to the connoisseur. I think that grand pianos can be compared best with fine watches or cars. In my effort, I was looking for a good grand piano in the 6ft range. Although, I am not looking for a 9ft concert grand, I did look more favorably to those makes that also offered these elite instruments, much in the same way one likes to see that there car company is racing in Formula one, or that there watch company manufactures a minute repeater, a tourbillion, or a grand complication. The idea is that technology and expertise but into these instruments will be reflected in the car, watch or piano I have.

I will talk a little bit on tone/sound/musicality/feel of the piano. Since, this is such a personal matter and can not be related in terms of one type over another, I think that it is better that tone be kept out of the ranking. Instead I looked at this as simply as a pass or fail. In other words, did the company succeed in making a piano with at least an acceptable tone to someone or is it so bad that it simply failed. The rest I think should be left to personal choice and has absolutely nothing to do with a rank.

So what did I take into account? Quality of construction, case materials, sound board materials, joints, mass produces or limited production boutique, actions, plate, technology.

There seems to be a trend in piano making in farming out product to other countries. This is tolerated by our members on the basis primarily of tone and working condition and dependability. While I think this is a real pragmatic approach, I do think that there is a difference in quality. And above simply quality, there is some amount of magic associated with the knowledge that a piano is entirely hand made in Europe, or the U.S. and that no corners were cut to save money no matter how little it affected the sound. This is the argument of the connoisseur. And this is what my grading system is based on.

I have no loyalties. I have no relationship in the industry to any institution and I am completely not biased in any other way. My wife and I are both physicians and I will not be disclosing which piano I have picked here in this post. I do this because it has nothing to do with the ranking list. I used the Fine Tier system, along with subcategories and graded each brand. I did not bother going lower than mid tier 3, since I wished to deal with only those instruments that are connoisseur level which is contained in the first two tiers. I will explain each brand after the rank. I did not consider history of instability to be a negative considering that in the piano industry this seems to be more the rule than the exception. Instead, I am only looking at what the current condition and goal of the company happens to be. Worth noting, all piano companies can go down hill very rapidly or get bought out and then start shipping parts from China or Indonesia.

GRAND PIANO RANKING:

Connoisseur Level Grands:
Tier I.)
High:
A+ Bosendorfer
A+ Bluthner
A+ Fazioli
A+ Steingraeber and Sohne
Low:
A Bosendorfer Conservatory
A Haessler
A Sauter
A/A- Hamburg Steinway and Son’s
A/A- C. Bechstein
Tier II.)
High:
A-/B+ Laul Estonia
A-/B+ Grotrian
A-/B+ August Forster
A-/B+ N.Y. Steinway and Son’s
B+ Baldwin S Series
B+ Yamaha S Series
Low:
B+/B Mason and Hamlin
B+/B Charles Walter
B+/B Shigeru Kawai
B Bechstein Academic Series
B Schimmel
B Seiler
B/B- Baldwin
B/B- Petrof
Tier III.) Non-Connoisseur Level
High:
B-/ Shulze Pollman
B-/ Yamaha C Series
C+/ Boston
C+/ Kawai RX Series
C+/ Bohemia

REVIEW OF THE PRODUCTS:
Bosendorfer: What can I say? It is the top and has been there a while. No compromise in materials or workmanship or design to make what they feel will be the best piano. Who wouldn’t want to have one of these very historic pianos.

Bluthner: Incredible quality that is second to none. Costly design elements in pursuit of perfect tone.

Fazioli: Boutique, small production, quality all the way.

Steingraeber and Sohne: Also boutique production, hand made, with all wood used in piano is music grade. Very fine instrument.

Bosendorfer Conservatory Series: Same as the normal Bosies inside, with less flashy finishes.

Haessler: Identicle in quality to Bluthner’s regular line. Only designed as an American piano.

Sauter: Outstanding workmanship from an old company w/ a history of quality and low production hand made product.

Hamburg Steinway and Son’s: Much better quality control and material than N.Y. counterpart. Considered a very fine instrument

C. Bechstein: Should be ranked up with Bluthner and Bosendorfer, but has begun to cut corners and introduce Chinese parts.

Laul Estonia: Very young company, but seems to be doing everything right. Hand made, low production, extremely high quality workmanship, uses finest materials (ie Renner action, Renner hammers, White Spruce sound boards). Who knows where these may be ranked in the years to come if they continue to improve. Very individual sound with use of low tension string design.

Grotrian: Great quality, wonderful sound. Production is too mechanized. This is not hand made as other small production houses.

August Forster: Should be ranked higher, but is having significant problems currently financially and is beginning to cut corners and quality control in inconsistent.

N.Y. Steinway and Son’s: This is the Rolex of pianos. It has all the name, but quality control is a very big problem. You don’t see the same quality up and down the different size grands. Certainly, makes concessions based on cost. Questionable if you will be seeing Boston parts in the regular line. Scary since they are also in negotiations w/ Young Chang. High volume production. However, each instrument is highly individualized--some are superstars and some are not worth the effort.

Baldwin S: Problems with the company financial stability, poor quality control, high production volume, mechanization, importation of foreign parts.

Yamaha S: Another industry standard, beautiful instrument, mechnization of production, aluminum and high grade plastics used, high volume production.

Mason And Hamlin: Biggest disappointment. I know they are regarded, but serious financial instability. Now they are using Chinese parts. This is too bad. This could be the greatest American piano. It could easily compete with Bosie and Bluthner if is had solid financial backing.

Charles Walter: High quality hand made production w/ American parts and woods and Renner actions. Low production volumes, family owned and run. No concert grand sizes. Made primarily for the home and small chapel.

Shigeru Kawai: Very Fine instrument, but also no 9ft grand. Made for high level homes and studios, but not the concert stage. High volume production.

Bechstein Academic series: Great piano if good enough is what you want with a name, low quality for Bechstein with Chinese parts to make less expensive.

Schimmel: Good quality, high volume production, and highly mechanized German piano. Sound needs to be more unique.

Seiler: Family unfortunately no longer in control. Cost cutting efforts and possibly importing parts. Otherwise, great piano with high volume production and mechanization.

Baldwin: Still with financial instability. Shaving costs, high production volumes, poor quality control, and importing parts from the East.

Petrof: Quality control is improving, but bad idea to stop using Renner parts. High production volumes. Need to use higher quality materials.

Shulze Pollman: Lower quality materials, high production volumes, foreign parts, and mechanization and not very individualized sound.

Yamaha C: Also an industry benchmark. Extremely high production volumes w/ mechanization and use of Chinese and Korean parts.

Boston: A really good piano. With great Steinway design and good quality control at Kawai’s Japan factory. Highest production volume and mechanization.

Kawai RX: Good piano w/ extremely high production volumes and assembly line mechanization. Cost cutting Chinese and Korean parts.

Bohemia: I don’t know very much about this piano. Too new. May be better than is ranked. High production volume. Lower quality materials.
_________________________
Baldwin Grand #205109

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#236828 - 01/07/07 02:02 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6193
Hi,

Welcome to Piano World, thanks for sharing your research on different piano makes/product lines, and thanks for carefully qualifying your ranking/evaluation. It must have taken quite a bit of your time.

Won't argue over "quality" (mostly because I haven't seen any concrete, measurable functional definition of such offered -- either for construction or for material), but would like to offer this one minor correction that I hope will be clear-cut and completely un-controversial:

You wrote: "Shigeru Kawai: Very Fine instrument, but also no 9ft grand[/b]."

The "no 9ft grand" part cannot be true -- I played a Shigeru Kawai 9ft grand just five weeks ago. \:\)

Other than that, perhaps you might also want to clarify your criterion for what qualifies as "high volume" production (e.g., how many pianos a year)... it seems to me you're not applying that criterion consistently in your write-up or your data regarding production volume is inaccurate. (Actually, I think your data is inaccurate when you wrote, in the Boston section, "highest production volume.")

Welcome again, and enjoy the Forum. \:\)
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#236829 - 01/07/07 07:14 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1077
Very good analysis and thorough research, but boy are you in trouble now. Expect to hear from Steinway lovers.

Your conclusion that manufacturers can go downhill quickly if they start using Chinese or Indonesian parts may well be true, but it is contentious. You might want to specify which parts you are talking about, and how you know these parts are in particular pianos. For example, if M&H is using Chinese parts because of their financial problems (I'm not even sure I know what these financial problems are), which parts are these, and how are these parts diminishing quality? Have there been customer complaints, or can dealers verify these problems?

Finally, may we assume that new Asian arrivals such as Pearl, Broadmann, Nordiska, Wendl & Lung, etc. are rated below C, or have you not looked at these instruments?

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#236830 - 01/07/07 07:59 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4983
Loc: boston north
 Quote:
Originally posted by NEPHRONOS:


Many times tone and sound is used as the primary cause.....

tone/sound/musicality/feel of the piano. Since, this is such a personal matter and can not be related in terms of one type over another, I think that it is better that tone be kept out of the ranking. Instead I looked at this as simply as a pass or fail. In other words, did the company succeed in making a piano with at least an acceptable tone to someone or is it so bad that it simply failed. The rest I think should be left to personal choice and has absolutely nothing to do with a rank.

So what did I take into account? Quality of construction, case materials, sound board materials, joints, mass produces or limited production boutique, actions, plate, technology.

[/b]
Welcome. Interesting read, with how you look differently upon a piano purchase/rating, than others might.

I, myself, cannot imagine rating an instrument without touch and tone being of primary importance!

And I care about quality. Actually I 'expect it' on fine pianos, no matter where they are made.

In your price range, I could wager a bet as to what you purchased (or maybe what I would have purchased with your qualifications). I should first ask, "Did you travel?"

LL
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#236831 - 01/07/07 08:17 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
hockeyguy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 133
Loc: toledo oh
I agree with Numerian's questions. Perhaps the parts that are "made in China" will eventually prove to be excellent, without the inferior quality stigma. Back in the 1950's -70's, "made in Japan" had a negative stigma as well, until that was overcome...

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#236832 - 01/07/07 08:28 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
ASOP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 144
Loc: USA
This is a physician's fantasy. Telling the world one's thoughts without having to put a name to the piece.

Also feels he is doing Larry Fine a favor -rationale he says for doing this is that Larry is not putting out a new book???

All that said it's an interesting read and one person's opinion based on some personally ranked objective and subjective data--although again none of it properly sourced or attributed.

JAMA has a peer review process that ensures articles are of quality--again isn't is wonderful to just let 'er rip?

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#236833 - 01/07/07 08:39 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
NancyM333 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 1550
Loc: Roswell, Georgia
I'm sure you'll start a firestorm with this, but I really enjoyed reading it. I haven't looked at Larry Fine's book in several years and even then wasn't buying a grand, so I'm not familiar with a lot of the pianos I read about here on the forum. It was very interesting to read what you determined about each brand. If I ever get that many nickels and dimes together, I will be sure to start with your list when I go out to shop!

Nancy
_________________________

Estonia 168, Yamaha UX3

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#236834 - 01/07/07 08:45 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6193
 Quote:
NEPHRONOS wrote:

"The connoisseur understands the intricacy of the manufacturing process and no detail is without importance. Quality, consistancy, materials, mechanization, country of origin[/b], and handmadeness[/b] is all important to the connoisseur."
NEPHRONOS ranked pianos using some "connoisseur" (his term) criteria which specifically separate "country of origin" from "quality,"[/b] and it's obvious that according to the "connoiseur" yardstick he has chosen to use for "country of origin," the German/Western European stuff ranks up high and the Oriental stuff ranks way low. I don't agree with this methodology and I don't agree with the criteria used (frankly, some of the things he termed "connoiseur", I would call "snob"; and we can argue whether the real "connoiseurs" would actually disregard sound/touch/history/heritage when it comes to piano), but at least NEPHRONOS is consistent within his stated methodology with regards to "country of origin".

Of course, I have my reservation with some of his claims on which makers are sourcing parts from where, but then for a person who's spent only "a few months researching pianos", what should I expect? Lots of us hang out here for years and even we can't keep up with who's sourcing parts where. Even for the dealers, we often hear stories of this or that salesperson are ignorant (or plain dishonest) about who is sourcing parts where. So what can we really expect from NEPHRONOS?

One can substitute "country of origin" with "handmadeness" for my two paragraphs above and they would still apply.
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#236835 - 01/07/07 08:57 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
sleepy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 330

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#236836 - 01/07/07 08:58 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
ASOP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 144
Loc: USA
Since everyone is predicting a firestorm I would like clarification on one point from the author:

Is this an editorial or a scholarly piece?

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#236837 - 01/07/07 09:38 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2773
Loc: Not in Texas
Welcome to the forum Nephronos and thanks much for sharing your thought process with us. You're not kidding when you say you like to thoroughly before you buy! Although I'm sure many here will pick at various bits of your criteria and/or ranking, the fact remains it's your[/b] piano and you can use any criterion you want in its selection and ranking - heck, even if you like the scripting of the name on the fallboard when you are playing.

Personally, I don't necessarily equate "hand craftsmanship" with "superior". Although it's certainly possible that may be true the reverse is also possible. As someone else said here, many people have an image of grey haired, bespectacled workers poring over every detail of piano construction when the reality often is (and has been) low paid immigrant workers.

But, as I said, it's your ranking and your piano and I really enjoyed reading your analysis and thought process. Welcome aboard!
_________________________
Greg

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#236838 - 01/07/07 10:58 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 20381
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by NEPHRONOS:
Mason And Hamlin: Biggest disappointment. I know they are regarded, but serious financial instability. . It could easily compete with Bosie and Bluthner if is had solid financial backing.
[/b]
Nephronos:

On what do you base this statement?

Has anyone else heard about any "financial instability" or "lack of solid financial backing" at M&H?

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#236839 - 01/07/07 11:28 AM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
NEPHRONOS

Interesting piece indeed. You must have been suicidal when watches became battery powered instruments. The combination of accuracy and cost reduction restructured the swiss watch making business overnight.

Wonder what your thoughts are on Bosendorfer's financial stability compared to M&H.

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#236840 - 01/07/07 12:27 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17896
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by fathertopianist:
NEPHRONOS

Interesting piece indeed. You must have been suicidal when watches became battery powered instruments. The combination of accuracy and cost reduction restructured the swiss watch making business overnight.

Wonder what your thoughts are on Bosendorfer's financial stability compared to M&H. [/b]
:D \:D

Nephronos, it's your $55,000 and you can spend it how you want. I also find rankings interesting, and I appreciate the time and effort that you invested in writing your post. Welcome to the forum!

However, and I am trying to say this politely and with all due respect, any ranking system of grand pianos that does not take into account the sound and action of the piano is, imo, of so little utility that I am not sure what function it serves.

I would be extremely interested in hearing from you how many of the pianos on your list that you have actually played? If you could indicate that somehow on your post, with an asterisk, perhaps, that would help me know how to interpret your rankings better.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#236841 - 01/07/07 12:32 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22710
Loc: Oakland
I wish someone would rank pianos starting with the cheapest ones, rather than the most expensive! There are a lot of really cheap pianos that I would prefer to some of the most expensive ones.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#236842 - 01/07/07 12:34 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
I'd be interested to know if Nephronos spoke directly to any piano manufacturers during his research, and whether he offered them any right to reply to his initial conclusions before he thought it was time to publish such musings on a public forum.

I have to say that I agree with ASOP on what I have read so far.

-Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#236843 - 01/07/07 12:43 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1549
Loc: New York
There is little in that ranking that ican agree with.

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#236844 - 01/07/07 12:46 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
jollyroger Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 849
Loc: Houston, TX
Having spoken to techs about Yamahas, they appear to be a delight to work on, for the most part; specifically, when changing parts. Due to their precision automation, parts replacement is a dream. While I too appreciate all things hand made, there's also something to be said about quality automation.
Just my 2 cents.
Roger
_________________________
Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
Estonia 190 - Serial # 6561

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#236845 - 01/07/07 01:01 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3529
Loc: US
Interesting indeed. Nephronos, can you tell us the basis for some of the statements that you make such as the suggestion that Steinway would put Boston parts in their pianos? As for talking with Young Chang, YC made the Essex piano originally so they have spoken to each other for years!
On what basis do you say that white spruce is the "finest" material for a soundboard or that various makers are "cutting corners"? I'm not asking rhetorically,I'm really interested.
Opinions are great, we are all entitled to them and to expressing them around here. It would be great to be able to separate what is your opinion from any factual basis for your comments.
Everyone is entitled as well to determine what is of most value in a piano and it sounds as though your standard is, as you said, looking at hand work and aesthetics. That doesn't necessarily translate into the best performance for what a piano was designed for: creating exquisite sound and responsiveness to the hand of the pianist. Whatever gets us there has my vote.

Sophia

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#236846 - 01/07/07 01:17 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
mdp1w Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 325
Loc: PA
 Quote:
INDEPENDANT NONBIASED NON-AFFILIATED PIANO RANKING
I smell STINK here. Again.

Daria
_________________________
Only love is real, everything else is of ego and is an illusion.

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#236847 - 01/07/07 01:20 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
I too enjoyed your thorough analysis of top teir pianos, but I whole heartedly agree with Monica when she says:
"However, and I am trying to say this politely and with all due respect, any ranking system of grand pianos that does not take into account the sound and action of the piano is, imo, of so little utility that I am not sure what function it serves."
For the player the action and (for his/her audience as well) the sound of the piano are the ultimate tests. Does quality of construction always equate to beautiful sound? Probably not.

Welcome to the forum!

Mike
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#236848 - 01/07/07 01:23 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho
Nephronos,

While I appreciate all the time it must of taken to assemble the above rating scale, your comments about the piano brands sound mostly like a collection of off the cuff salesmen soundbites. (Some real dandys in there!)

I'm sure all forumites would like to know how you sourced your information.

BC
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright

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#236849 - 01/07/07 01:49 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
petrof1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 151
Loc: Gulf Coast
NEPHRONOS SAID:[/b] I do not consider myself a piano expert. I am not a technician, I am not a piano dealer, and I am not a concert pianist.

Nephrons: With all due respect the above statement from you does not qualify you to post this ranking
_________________________
Make music not war

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#236850 - 01/07/07 01:59 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Casalborgone Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 1046
Loc: San Francisco Area
As others have pointed out, with pianos connoiseurship has a relation to musicianship. Many, if not most, thoughtful piano owners are concerned primarily with the musical qualities (and affordability) of the pianos they search for.

I think that in the case of musical instruments that connoiseurship must include musicality as the highest quality, rather than other attributes suggested by Nephronos. A connoiseur may be someone who understands the subtleties of craftmanship and design. With pianos these subtleties are extended into another realm completely, that of music and the esthetics of performance. A piano is not much like a fancy watch, except to a wealthy person for whom possessions are very important. A piano is not like an expensive watch which is really just something for a weathy person to own, admire and show off.

There is also a huge world of old pianos that anyone who is truly a connoiseur would have to know about and care about. The world of old pianos is unknown, evidently, to Nephronos.

Nephronos implies that he is a connoiseur, despite his claim not to be, but this word really can only apply to those who are really experts in pianos. Many of the posters here, both amateurs and professionals, really do understand important things about pianos that Nephronos clearly does not. For example, his claim about the high significance of handcrafting; this idea has been discussed at length. What about this "connoiseur's" perspective on the all-important issues of piano preparation? No mention by Nephronos. Last, wouldn't a connoiseur of pianos be deeply interested in pianos with particularly fine case designs? Again, no mention; there can be little real knowledge.

Not everyone can be a real connoiseur of pianos. It takes time and effort to gain accurate, useful knowledge. Thankfully, there is an abundance of this real, and really valuable, expertise here on PW. Nephronos could get a lot closer to his goal of being a connoiseur simply by going through the archives thoughtfully.
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Mike
Registered Piano Technician
Member Piano Technicians Guild
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#236851 - 01/07/07 02:00 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10635
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Sock?
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#236852 - 01/07/07 02:03 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Derick II Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 1426
Loc: New York
Neh, he's a piano mover. I bet you know him.

Derick
_________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."[/b] - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)


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#236853 - 01/07/07 02:06 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
pianistical Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
It seems to me that there is a strong correlation between the degree of acceptance and the position of ones piano in the list.

Exactly one year ago the forum members rated Larry Fine´s tier one pianos in the following way:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/12654.html#000000
_________________________
“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
1955 Steingraeber upright.

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#236854 - 01/07/07 02:25 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
VGrantano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 771
Loc: New Jersey
Does any one else but me think the guy is trying to set himself up to be the next Larry Fine?
M&H has better financing then all of the top tier
pianos put together. I can't wait for the lawyers
start to try to find him to get him to retract.
I have a Rolex since the early '80s that I'm very happy with, thank you.
And I say all of this, not with all due respect!

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#236855 - 01/07/07 02:34 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
Casalborgone Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 1046
Loc: San Francisco Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by VGrantano:
Does any one else but me think the guy is trying to set himself up to be the next Larry Fine?
M&H has better financing then all of the top tier
pianos put together. I can't wait for the lawyers
start to try to find him to get him to retract.
I have a Rolex since the early '80s that I'm very happy with, thank you.
And I say all of this, not with all due respect! [/b]
LOL!

Yeah, the new Larry Fine, keeping all the bad stuff of Fine's books (rating pianos in groups) and ignoring all the real and useful detailed information about pianos.

I love this statement: "not with all due respect!" I would probably have simply said "with all due disrespect!"
_________________________
Mike
Registered Piano Technician
Member Piano Technicians Guild
Not currently working in the piano trade.

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#236856 - 01/07/07 02:45 PM Re: Grand Piano Ranking for the New Year.
ASOP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 144
Loc: USA

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