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Joined: Jan 2015
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Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I'm actually mainly a drummer, and have picked up some patchy piano advice along the way and tried to learn on my own, but haven't taken proper piano lessons. I mostly play jazz these days on drums, and have learned some basic piano voicings by going through Mark Levine's Jazz Piano Book, and have also sat in on a few courses in jazz harmony.. I can play some jazz standard heads by memory, and have tried to play along with a couple of solos on these standards (from Miles Davis cds, and Charlie Parker using the omnibook, but after I learn them I tend to forget them quickly!). Things are progressing slowly, but I'm wondering if things would progress quicker if I got some proper lessons. I just wanted to ask some experienced pianists, has anyone been at this stage and found that getting lessons really helped to move things forward, or does it sound like I'm doing the right things on my own?
Since it's a second instrument I kind of enjoy that there's no pressure to practice scales/arpeggios and to worry about technique etc, and I wonder if getting proper lessons would force me right back to the beginning and away from the aspects that I enjoy.
Thanks for reading, Caroline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,861
2000 Post Club Member
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Hi Caroline, Welcome to Piano World! I think you'll get more expert advice from jazz pianists if you also post this in the Non-Classical forum: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/35/1/Pianist_Corner_-_Non_Classical.html I am not a jazz pianist but I think the right teacher will tailor his/her instruction to your experience, goals, and needs. Since you're already a fine jazz drummer (I checked out your videos!) your rhythmic sense puts you way ahead of the game when it comes to jazz piano. Good luck!
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,119
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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Hi Caroline,
I am a teacher, so, for transparency I'll state that first. Second, my answer comes from experience working with many students over the years who've raised the same or similar questions that you've stated in your post. And there was a time of course when I was wondering if and who I should study with (for me that was Jaki Byard and Charlie Banacos and some others including Marian McPartland). In any case a question that often comes up with students considering lessons is will a teacher ruin enjoyment of studying and playing by forcing or enforcing stuff a student simply doesn't want to learn?
That's a concern that can be addressed completely by finding the right teacher. A teacher with whom you feel you're collaborating and partnering. A teacher who understands your goals and wants to help you move towards them. A teacher who listens to you and who builds on what you know instead of discarding your previous learning and accomplishments.
The right teacher is going to be someone who takes all of that into account and then helps you with additional stuff that for whatever reason is difficult to do on your own much less to make progress with on your own. So you mentioned scales and arpeggios ... well, that might comes into the picture at some point. But a good teacher should also know how when and how to introduce stuff so that you see the benefits and not just the discipline, and formalities.
A good teacher will help you work with Charlie Parker (hopefully) – if that's what you want to do – so that the benefits stay with you and become foundations rather than interludes and short projects that don't otherwise add up.
So, yes, you'll progress much faster with lessons but it's all dependent on working with the right teacher. And the right teacher will also be an individual who will challenge your world view. It will be someone who helps you to see over the horizon where you may not have thought there was anything to see.
I see on your website you're in Boston at NEC. I'm an alum from the jazz program there but from a long time ago. I know from my own experience that Boston's filled to the brim with great teachers. And you're playing in the band at Harvard and Vijay Iyer's in-residence there. So in theory you're surrounded, literally and practically by some of the best players and educators in jazz. Have you spoken with any of the piano teachers there?
I also see you're in London a lot and there are great teachers there. If you want, send me a PM and I can recommend a fabulous teacher in London. Because I'm in Leicester (along w/R3) - but I'm from the US originally - I'll mention that and also that I teach on Skype. Once you get to the world of Skype there are TONS of great teachers to choose from because they (and we) are all over the world, literally. Many of them are here and active on these forums.
In short, do the math, find a pianist who teaches and who plays in a way that captures your attention and who can inspire and direct you onto the path you'd l ike to travel. Don't forget to consider the path may have unforeseen and unpredicted byways well are worth traveling! And thats the point of study isn't it? To go to the new places. To get to to the new skills. To broaden. To expand. .... And ask you drum instructor who they recommend!
Good luck in the search and the journey!
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,334
5000 Post Club Member
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Hi, jazzy_caz ! The eminent drummer Jack deJohnette said during his masterclass in Jerusalem the following brilliant phrase: "I play on drums like on the piano".Do not even need to mention that J. DeJ. Is a professional pianist. Just by analyzing tuning of his drum set, including even the triangle, we can see that it does this in practice. He is actively involved not only in the rhythm and phrasing of Keith Jarrett, but also in ITS HARMONY! This is what can give systematic piano lessons for you . All drummers are obliged to play the piano! (and all pianists - on drums)
Last edited by Nahum; 01/04/15 02:59 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Thanks for the warm welcome. Mark thanks for your detailed response. I'm not in Boston anymore (should really update my website!) and am now based in London. I've heard great things about Charlie Banacos - that must have been great for you getting to study with him and Jaki Byard. I have a friend in London who studied with Banacos using his taped lessons, which I think his wife is now continuing to send to students on his behalf.
You mentioned Vijay Iyer.. I'm actually really grateful to him as he let me sit in on classes for his first semester at Harvard. The course wasn't actually piano based, although I did get a good roast on drums! As luck would have it Herbie Hancock was also around on-and-off in their music dept last year and I was allowed to sit in on a course on his music (I have our big band leader to thank for allowing me into these!). That's probably about the point that I started taking piano a bit more seriously.. However, I still haven't had anyone who can play actually watch me play to give advice, I'm just picking up bits of information here and there and trying things out at home. I think I'm convinced now that getting some lessons from the right person is a good idea to move forward, Mark I will PM as you mentioned.
Thanks Jazzyprof, I'll repost in the forum you mentioned.
Best, Caroline
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,119
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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Caroline,
What am amazing set of experiences you describe. I mean, literally, you've been next to the best. Which is what I remember from my uni days at NEC with Jaki Byard.
In those days Miroslav Vituous, the great bassist who was one of the co-founders of Weather Report was a guest artist there. I was playing with him in a jam session when he learned over and said something to me. Everyone in the room wanted to know: What that pearl of advice? The answer was simple: Miroslav was lost in the tune we were playing which was Invitation. So he asked "Where are we?"
Anyway, I'm guessing you went to HH's Norton lecturers which most of the rest of us are hoping will get transcribed into a book! Stravinky's Norton lecture is where his famous statement about limitations comes from
"My freedom thus consists in my moving about within the narrow frame that I have assigned myself for each one of my undertakings.
I shall go even farther: my freedom will be so much the greater and more meaningful the more narrowly I limit my field of action and the more I surround myself with obstacles. Whatever diminishes constraint diminishes strength. The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees oneself of the chains that shackle the spirit."
I've responded to your PM ... don't hesitate to ping me if you further questions. Best of luck to you! Because you've got some great experiences on which to build!
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Anyway, I'm guessing you went to HH's Norton lecturers which most of the rest of us are hoping will get transcribed into a book!
I did indeed - but did you know that they're now on youtube? There were six lectures, and they're all up there
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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