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![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/oVXkaeP.jpg) The similarity of tie and slur notation has always bothered me, but I haven't found a case of real ambiguity until this prelude. There is a slur/tie connecting the D in the RH chord of measure 3 to the next measure, as marked in red. (The same slur/tie occurs in the LH.) The question is: Does the D get played again at the beginning of measure 4? The answer, according to every recording I sampled, is: yes. But how would we know that without recordings? What in the score tells us to replay that note; i.e. what tells us the marking is supposed to be a slur, and not a tie? -Jason
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There is an tenuto above notes on first beat. It indicates that it's a slur not a tie.
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Generally, the way I know is by examining where on the notehead the end of the marking lands. If it is in the middle, it's a tie; if it is above or near the top (or underneath, as the case may be), it's a slur. That usually works for me. But sure, if the spot in question is visually complicated, it can be hard to tell. And engraving isn't always as clear as it should be, either.
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There is an tenuto above notes on first beat. It indicates that it's a slur not a tie.
Also, the fingering for the note is given there, and not in the earlier chord, which is where it normally would be if it were a tie.
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When I learned this piece (w/o a teacher) I always played the Ds. I probably did this because I'd heard a number of recordings of it, and it sounded right.
I think a bigger question for me was how to pedal this. The "melodic" chords are long and sustained. However the lower "accompanimental" chords are very specifically marked staccato. I always pedaled through them in order to keep the line intact. So the accompaniment was *played* staccato but since the pedal was down they were also sustained. I suppose one could use the sostenuto pedal, but that just seemed pointlessly complex and I don't think I've heard a recording where someone does that. Please post a link to one if you can find it!
--------------------------
Bach WTC 1 #7
Brahms Op 76 #1, Op 118 #5
Debussy Suite Bergamasque
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You're right that it's a bit ambigious, but the D is already linked with a tie on bar 3 (last in the 1st system), so there's no need to tie that again...
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In my edition, the slur starts on the quarter note d, making it very clear that the half note d in the next measure is played.
In your edition, this is clearly shown in the left hand of the same measure.
Great piece. Have fun.
Edit: Interesting, my edition is identical with down to the sub-millimetre placement of rests and dynamic markings, except for that one slur. Weird.
Last edited by prout; 01/07/15 09:16 AM.
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When I learned this piece (w/o a teacher) I always played the Ds. I probably did this because I'd heard a number of recordings of it, and it sounded right.
I think a bigger question for me was how to pedal this. The "melodic" chords are long and sustained. However the lower "accompanimental" chords are very specifically marked staccato. I always pedaled through them in order to keep the line intact. So the accompaniment was *played* staccato but since the pedal was down they were also sustained. I suppose one could use the sostenuto pedal, but that just seemed pointlessly complex and I don't think I've heard a recording where someone does that. Please post a link to one if you can find it! TimV: Alexis Weissenberg's recording does something like what you describe, though I *think*, rather than using the sostenuto pedal, he lifts his fingers and silently replaces them on the chord. Weissenberg Rachmaninoff B-minor Prelude Jeff Kallberg
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I have played it both ways - with, and without the sostenuto. I like the purity achieved with the sostenuto, but the pedal is not always available to the performer.
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Thanks for the replies. I have a feeling that the actual giveaway is the fingering. There's very little fingering in this edition and I think it's Rachmaninoff's. Of all the things to give fingering for, those B minor triads are strange choices... unless the point is really to tell us to replay the top notes.
-J
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....What in the score tells us to replay that note; i.e. what tells us the marking is supposed to be a slur, and not a tie? ....I have a feeling that the actual giveaway is the fingering.... Assuming that what we're seeing there is for real (i.e. from Rachmaninoff rather than some editor), to me the giveaway is that 'accent' mark (or whatever we should call it) over the D. Even without that mark, I would have thought it pretty certain that you re-strike the D, just from the 'ear test' (i.e. what seems to make sense to the ear), but with that mark, IMO there's just no doubt.
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....What in the score tells us to replay that note; i.e. what tells us the marking is supposed to be a slur, and not a tie? ....I have a feeling that the actual giveaway is the fingering.... Assuming that what we're seeing there is for real (i.e. from Rachmaninoff rather than some editor), to me the giveaway is that 'accent' mark (or whatever we should call it) over the D. Even without that mark, I would have thought it pretty certain that you re-strike the D, just from the 'ear test' (i.e. what seems to make sense to the ear), but with that mark, IMO there's just no doubt. If everyone would look carefully, the lower staff has the identical structure, only the phrase mark (NOT a slur) is misplaced in the upper staff. My copy, has it printed correctly, if such a thing as 'correctly' exists in the music publishing world.
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Assuming that what we're seeing there is for real (i.e. from Rachmaninoff rather than some editor), to me the giveaway is that 'accent' mark (or whatever we should call it) over the D. (I assume you mean the D in measure 4.) Maybe. It's certainly a good hint, although I can imagine a world where the D is tied and that mark is supposed to apply to the lower notes in the chord. Even without that mark, I would have thought it pretty certain that you re-strike the D, just from the 'ear test' (i.e. what seems to make sense to the ear), but with that mark, IMO there's just no doubt. Here I'll disagree! I think it's impossible to separate "what seems to make sense to the ear" from "what you're heard your whole life". I think, although it's difficult to prove one way or the other, that to someone who didn't know this piece it would sound good either way. -J
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Assuming that what we're seeing there is for real (i.e. from Rachmaninoff rather than some editor), to me the giveaway is that 'accent' mark (or whatever we should call it) over the D. ....Maybe. It's certainly a good hint, although I can imagine a world where the D is tied and that mark is supposed to apply to the lower notes in the chord. I have to give a flat 'no' on that, because if it were that, Rachmaninoff never would have put that accent mark exactly where it is. (Assuming again that the mark is for real.) Even without that mark,..... You forgot the comma after "that." (Kidding.) 
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As a supplement to the points made above, my Boosey & Hawkes edition settles the matter by saying in its editorial report: "...it is clear from the manuscript that the slurs refer to the lower voices and that the upper minims are not to be tied." In my edition, all slurs that were incorrectly placed in the first Gutheil edition have been corrected.
(Used to post as SlatterFan)
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As a supplement to the points made above, my Boosey & Hawkes edition settles the matter by saying in its editorial report: "...it is clear from the manuscript that the slurs refer to the lower voices and that the upper minims are not to be tied." In my edition, all slurs that were incorrectly placed in the first Gutheil edition have been corrected. Nice job! -- except that the Brits have got to stop using a word like "minim," which sounds like something minimal, for a long note.
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In my edition, all slurs that were incorrectly placed in the first Gutheil edition have been corrected. If the implication here is that, at least in theory, ties are supposed to be visually attached to the noteheads while slurs are supposed to be visually placed above the noteheads, then I'm happy.
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