Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards How to use a stage piano to run virtual piano sounds?

Hello everyone, hope your weekend's going well.

I have an MP11 that's set to arrive next week. I know that software piano sounds have the capability to sound pretty terrific and at some point I'd like to explore this. While the VPC is built with this in mind, I'm assuming I could still use the MP11 as a controller?

I have a stand along powerful laptop (it's just bulky) that I can place near the mp11. What would I need to do to sample virtual piano sounds in terms of connections?

Is it midi out from the MP11 then USB into the laptop? How does it connect to my monitors?

Also, I think I've heard there is 'trial' piano software sounds for ivory and other brands. I'm not sure how that works - does it just limit you to a few keys to see what it sounds like? Kind of new to all of this - all I know is that I've seen the virtual piano software on websites.

Congratulations! The MP11 is a beast! A lot of the software pianos are fantastic, but don't underestimate the satisfaction the MP11 will bring you as is.

Yes, the MP11 can control software instruments via USB MIDI - it sends and receives MIDI data on that one cable. The older MIDI ports exist for connection to older devices mainly, or MIDI interfaces, which aren't really necessary direct to laptop.

Lot's of software instruments to try out, too many to mention. If you share what sounds you are looking for, we can suggest things. For piano yes, a lot of people enjoy Synthogy's Ivory and another to check out is Modartt's Pianoteq . Pianoteq's demo eliminates some of the keys available during demo mode.

Thanks! I'm so looking forward to it's arrival .

So if I'm reading correctly, the mp11 has various midi output/inputs as well as a USB port. That USB port serves as a midi port as well? In other words, would a basic USB to USB cable do the same as if I did midi out to USB? Because if so, I think I have a USB cable laying around I can use.

How do the monitors get driven in this case? I know by default the monitors will be plugged into the MP11. I assumed that since the computer is driving the sound now, that I'd somehow need to have the computer outputting to the monitors. Or does the MP11's input go to the computer, it comes back to the MP11 and outputs to the monitors?

I'm primarily interested in exploring the Ivory II but if there were free samples before purchasing, I'd likely explore more.

Two other questions I thought of that I'll throw out there. I know the VPC allows custom touch curves for some piano software. I'm guessing the editor is strictly limited to the VPC1 and that utilizing those touch curves on the MP11 aren't possible, even though they're both Kawai products?

Second, I've heard some people say the responsiveness, at least with the VPC1 to software piano, can be ever so slightly less precise compared to onboard sound. Should I expect this as well or is that really dependent on the computer hardware?

Yes, that's exactly so.



There are different ways to accomplish this. Probably the easiest would be to have the USB cable from the mp11 to the computer to drive the virtual instruments, then the computer's audio output routed to the audio inputs on the MP11, and then the MP'11's audio output to a keyboard amp or to speakers/monitors.

You'll also need to shut off the sounds of the MP11 (unless you want them layered).



Yes, I'm pretty sure that's correct, but the MP11 has a lot of flexibility in setting up touch curves to adjust how the sound responds to your playing. Also, you can customize the tones in a lot of different ways to get a sound you like.

Doing this could create groundloops and a nasty noise. (It does with my Yamaha DP). Be prepared to plug the speakers directly on the PC or using a MIDI link (I suppose the MP11 has such a plug).

That can happen, good point. If you get ground loop noise you can put a hum destroyer (they're not expensive) in the line to circumvent it.

You may also opt to address your needs with a mixer.

Something like the Yamaha MG06

Run the audio outs of the MP11 and the audio out of the computer to the line level inputs on the mixer. The MP11 would use two 1/4" TS cables and the computer would likely use an 1/8th inch TRS to split Y 1/4" cable. The signals from the two audio sources will be "mixed" before running a pair of balanced XLR cables to your powered monitors (just check to see if you need male or female connectors on either end).

That makes sense. It sounds like the yamaha acts like the equivalent of an AV receiver just handling both sources. So this way I wouldn't have to mess with wires once hooked up.

Can anyone comment on signal noise when running out from the laptop? Will it be enough to power monitors?

Also, is there any noticeable latency when using a computer for sound compared to onboard?

I suppose the laptop output is designed for phones and can bring more power than a LINE-IN input of a powered speaker needs (the higher impedance of the LINE-IN makes the intensity of the current lower).

For the noise of the laptop output, you could make the test. I havn't had problem with mine, but I may be less picky than you and I have probably another model.

Yes that's a good analogy.



You will want powered monitors, something like the ones I linked above. Or a keyboard amplifer. If you go with a keyboard amp, then you don't need a mixer. They typically have a few inputs, this one has 4.



If you have a reasonably modern computer something with dual cores or better and 4gb or RAM or better (the i5 and i7 machines from the last few years are pretty quick). Then you can make settings in the software to reduce latency to as low as possible. And if the computer is quick enough to keep up, its near neglegeable (you won't notice it) if you have to you raise the buffer setting. This raises latency but makes it easier for the computer to process, you should be able to find a happy medium between lowest buffer possible and acceptable latency. If you're a Mac guy all their fairly recent models are capable of very low latency.

Great thanks for all the info. Think I am set!

tiesto81, this video from PianoManChuck explains a little about playing an external tone generator and re-routing the sound into the MP11. Chuck uses a hardware sound module, however the same principle applies to a computer running Ivory, Pianoteq, or any other software instrument.



Cheers,
James
x

I don't have a problem using ivory 2 American D maxed on voices, half pedal on a i7 using the max 20 velocity keyset( I can put my arms on the keys press as many keys as I dare with the pedal down and it no have my missus press some keys as well rapidly ( yes I did this crazy experiment ) not a single hickup.

It is a heavily overclocked system at 4.7 GHz but it would just do fine on standard clocks as well @ 3.5 gHz I guess. If you are going ivory I would recommend a solid state drive though if you can, it is very heavy on disk activity.

That being said I am not an advanced player, but reading around generally it seems people are happy I get the impression on such systems, when they are not invariably it is because they haven't configured it properly.

There will be limits though if you start playing instrument plugins, with different sounds simultaneously, processing and disk usage can get very heavy in such cases and any up to date PC will run into limitations. The nice thing about the build in sounds on the MP11, though I don't own one I know you'll not have such problems, that is one benefit.

I have two virtual pianos, the gaint by native instruments has a cinematic effect piano with lots of complicated convolution algorithms processing sound while you play, if I play the american D at the same time in my DAW while that is playing on another track CPU useage can get very high at times, when pushed hard enough it can cause a crackle or pop unless I increase latency a bit.

Of course there is always the option to freeze a track once done to avoid that, suffice it to say, there are limits, but with a decent system a single piano plugin will not break much of a sweat at all.

Tiesto81, I have an MP11 which I like very much, preferable, by a wide margin. to my Yamaha upright.

While I am quite happy with most of the onboard sounds, I am setting up an arrangement to input VST instruments and later, voice, via a midlevel laptop and an audio interface (Steinberg UR22) I was particularly interested in using a virtual pipe organ to play certain pieces or at least Bach down the line as a change from piano.

The arrangement I have is as follows: USB from the keyboard to the laptop, USB from the computer to the audio interface, then stereo line output from the interface back to the audio inputs of the MP11. I use the free Haupwerk organ and this arrangement works but there is some latency present. I do not get any audio feedback or other such issues. I have an amp and monitor speakers for my sound.

Cheers

Andy

Good call, AndyP.

I was going to bring up the notion of an audio interface earlier, but then I was thinking - sheesh, is he ready to get into a DAW?

But you're right, having an audio interface will not only allow him to get into recording, but also will deliver better digital to analog conversion and hopefully, as in your case with the UR22, good low latency ASIO drivers for better performance with things like Pianteq and Ivory and the like.

So, a good watch of Chuck's video on routing audio to the inputs on the MP11 is where to start. Then please, come back if you have questions on how to setup the audio interface.

Best.

I use an Apogee Duet (only available for Mac computers). It has a super clean sound, and drives speakers well (I use a pair of RCF 4PRO 1031-A powered speakers for gigging). With Ivory American Concert D, running it at 196khz (vs. 44.1khz) is a noticeable difference in clarity, particularly with dense chords, and the sparkle of higher frequencies. I didn't realize for a while that if you run a 256 sample buffer at 196khz, it is similar latency to 64 samples at 44.1khz... and for acoustic piano sounds much better.

I'd like to get into DAW eventually because down the line I'm hoping to experiment with some music creation. That said, I'd like to avoid purchasing an audio interface if I can help it since I've already spent a bunch and if I end up really liking the virtual piano sounds, I'll end up dropping some more money there .

I checked out PianoChuck's video and I'm a little bit uncertain of how to follow his example with a laptop. In his video, he has a midi output from the MP11 into the Audio Interface. This sounds like I'd be doing the Midi Output from the MP11 and run it into my laptop using the USB cable. So I have that part down.

Then he has his analog audio out from the interface going into the line in inputs of the MP11. This is the part I don't understand how to do in relation to my laptop. I'm guessing in my case I'd be running it out of the headphone jack into the MP11's line ins? Isn't that the same as doing the audio output of the laptop mentioned earlier that could potentially cause ground loops?

With the laptop I think I should be set. It's pretty beefy, and has 16 gigs of ram (it's a hardcore gamer laptop so it's essentially a desktop in a laptop). It's got an i7-4700HQ and 24 gigs of ram which is admittedly overkill, but it's how it was setup.

Here are the output ports:
1 x S/PDIF Digital Output
4 x USB 3.0 ports
1 x Thunderbolt Port
1 x VGA port/Mini D-sub 15-pin for external monitor
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x HDMI 1.4
1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack

Yes get an 1/8th inch stereo to split left and right 1/4" TS cables. They more commonly have RCA rather than 1/4" TS but you can find one at a Music shop.

re: ground loop when going USB to pc and Audio back to the MP11. You'll have to see if that happens. If it doesn't then it's a non issue. If it does then we come up with a plan.

Using an Audio interface rather than the head phone jack will potentially deliver lower latency, better Audio quality due to better DA conversion, possibly solve a ground loop problem if you even run into that, and of course offer Audio inputs for capturing the sound of your MP11 and Vocal or other acoustic instruments. There will be plenty opinions on which to choose I am sure.

I forgot to mention that the mp11 has this switch on the back labeled gnd lift. Just realized it had that.

Very useful feature, you'll have to see if that comes into play in your playing environment. Really good to have if you gig and need to deal with who knows what electrical environment.