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#2379008 - 01/28/15 04:32 AM We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE!
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 233
Loc: UK
I currently play a Roland 700NX, I have had a lot of keyboards in my time most of which I would not mention. I have a C2 within reach too.

The Roland has spoilt me for touch. Its just a fantastic instrument touch wise. The Concert Grande is very decent straight from the box. The other Pianos are OKish, might go in this or that mix, but are not (IMO) goto. The Roland is poorly served by its tiny VDU, some, only some sounds are easily reached, the Synth is good average, no more.

I imagine this:

PO:

Imagine a robust non plasticky stage keyboard with 88 piano keys, build as well as the Roland. Each key also pressure sensitive.

Housed in this body above this, a Hammond Style, "waterfall" keyboard spanning four octaves, in the centre. Above this the Drawbars and essential Hammond dials.

To the left of the main keyboard a a pair of controller wheels, an input for a breath controller.

To the left of the "Hammond" interface, an area to provide synth control buttons - eight sliders and some generic dials. Each dial would be lit, and a small VDU would be beneath it to display its current reading.

Above, and attached to the keyboard would be the "music stand".

This would have a support stand for to USB connect a touch tablet PC of your choice. This tablet could be a standard Win or Apple tablet and it would provide an additional powerhouse for the keyboard

The Tablet could provide the following:

Notation Display (no more peering in the Dark)
Ability to Play VSTs
Normal Windows functions
Large clear graphical touch Interfaces for any loaded instrument
Help Manual
Internet connection if desired
Ability to Run a Sequencer of your choice

Packaged into the product would be ONLY instruments of the highest quality. No "almost made it" instruments.

These would include at least one example of each type of piano, each type of 'classic' organ (Wurlitzers, , harpsichord etc. Further instruments could be used from any manufacturer of VSTs.

Apart fro supporting VSTS, the synth section would not only give the "classic" synth sounds (which can be cheesy) but also there would be an ability to warp natural sounds (e.g. a real bee buzz). Introducing real world sounds (Omnisphere's burning piano for example) is key to getting at those wonderful sounds that occupy the top studios'
Special care would be given to providing USEABLE keyboard sounds. By this I exclude those Absynth like sounds that on the press of one key the sound goes on warping about for a minute of so. I mean those sounds that are "keyboardistic" (forgive the neologisms. Sounds that have a velocity variable attack, an intriguing sustain, and a useful decay. These forms of synth sounds can be very hard to find.
There are of course the group of bell like sounds, the natural bells andtghe warped bells, but there are also many other sounds that could be crafted and be both new and effective.

Inside the keyboard there would be an SSD hard drive. On this samples could be stored.

To the right of the "Hammond" interface, there would be a port for a mouse, a small but functional Alphanumeric keyboard.
Some assignable buttons for bringing up 'universal' presets, representing states of the instrument..

At the rear there would be ports to plug in a three pedal piano pedal set, a swell pedal and a footswitch - simultaneously! Of course there would be standard MIDI and Audio Ports. Additionally there would be a facility to plug in a user USB if desired.

Optionally, below, room to screw in optional robust legs. From these legs a bar could be provided to anchor the pedals so they don't move around. Cable clips for leads. Two types of cases, hard and soft, both with properly functional wheels



For me, such a keyboard would be all that many professional musicians would require. Provided it was built to the highest standard AND the sounds were top flight, it would sell.

I think that none of the current Top flight digital keyboards meet this criteria.
If you think about it, a Hammond does not really need to have Waterfall keys on its lower octave, this makes it easy to effectively combine the needs of a piano keyboard with those of a dual manual Hammond. The compromise is trivial.
Talking Hammond, there is nothing that really replaces drawbars, for their physical qualities. These may have to be motorised to bring up presets.


There are so many musicians that would pay for something that is RIGHT, an all in one package that is functional, customisable and upgradeable. Such a package would have to be versatile and with a killer intuitive GUI (the tablet).


Obviously building up to the highest standards in this way would be expensive, perhaps much more expensive than even the top flight keyboards of today. Maybe $8000 dollars or more.

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#2379070 - 01/28/15 09:43 AM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3540
Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
Imagine a robust non plasticky stage keyboard with 88 piano keys, build as well as the Roland. Each key also pressure sensitive.

Pressure sensitive (aftertouch) is good (poly AT even better, if we're going to dream), but I think it's more useful on organ/synth action than on weighted piano action.

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
Housed in this body above this, a Hammond Style, "waterfall" keyboard (etc.)

It's going to be too heavy. Look how heavy the 700NX is to begin with!

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
Maybe $8000 dollars or more.

I think the idea of building a weighted and unweighted action into a single chassis is that there should be either a benefit in portability or a benefit in price compared to using two keyboards, I don't think your model addresses that. What's the real benefit? Especially when the odds that the same company is going to make your favorite piano action AND your favorite organ action, your favorite piano sounds AND your favorite organ sounds, is going to be quite small?

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#2379075 - 01/28/15 09:47 AM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 233
Loc: UK
Yes the 700nx is heavy, but the Nord's are not, not is the Korg

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#2379148 - 01/28/15 12:13 PM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
Composer135 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 23
_________________________
Dor Fischer, Composer
https://soundcloud.com/dorfischer/

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#2379157 - 01/28/15 12:40 PM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 233
Loc: UK
that's an intriguing link, but I would not want to stick bits on a keyboard. If the keyboard has after touch then surely you wont need to do this

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#2379162 - 01/28/15 01:00 PM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
Composer135 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 23
This is far better than aftertouch; it's multi axis control. It allows for infinitely more control than just aftertouch... If I had a separate GOOD midi keyboard apart from my main piano, I would consider installing this. I could play vibrato a-la-Ondes Martenot with vst's while having the touch control the volume itself. So many possibilities... I could even really play Ondes Martenot if I wanted to cool
_________________________
Dor Fischer, Composer
https://soundcloud.com/dorfischer/

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#2379205 - 01/28/15 02:41 PM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 383
Loc: Dorset, England

So we have this.....

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero


Imagine a robust non plasticky stage keyboard with 88 piano keys, build as well as the Roland. Each key also pressure sensitive.



Which gets this pertinant response...

Originally Posted By: anotherscott


It's going to be too heavy. Look how heavy the 700NX is to begin with!



And then we have this reply to the response.....

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero

Yes the 700nx is heavy, but the Nord's are not, not is the Korg


So the much vaunted Roland build is instantly able to be "compromised" to the qualities of a lighter instrument.
To me, another RD700NX player, that is a bit of a contradiction.

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#2379253 - 01/28/15 05:05 PM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 233
Loc: UK
Slippery

I see your point, Slippery, but there is some room for manoevre. I have owned the Nord Stage 2 and the build is reasonable, it's a lot lighter. I notice that the 800NX is not so heavy too. The C2 is trivially light. However i do not think that they have got the build right. Its a matter of thinking it through, its possible I am sure, without too much compromise.

If it has to be heavy, then the wheels should reflect this.

Composer 135
OK that looks good, maybe the shape of things to come, once built in. We do need better control over vibrato with orchestral sounds, and other sensitivities of touch.


Edited by ZeroZero (01/28/15 05:07 PM)

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#2379577 - Yesterday at 11:23 AM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
Cmin Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 241
Loc: Swabia
For me, speakers are missing.
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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#2379813 - Yesterday at 09:26 PM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: Cmin]
Dave Weiser Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Boston, MA
Love this thread!!!!

The dual manual thing reminded me of the dual bubble-domes on The Homer. Regrettably the actual Simpsons clip is unavailable due to strict copyright enforcement on youtube re all Simpons content.

_________________________
Custom Sound Design and Keyboard Sales
www.weisersound.com
https://www.facebook.com/weisersound?ref=hl

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#2379909 - Today at 05:04 AM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 233
Loc: UK
Love it Dave. Po smile

The issue is has any manufacturer covered the high ground? I think the Kronus comes close, but the build isn't there IMO

I dont think its out there Nord's have their virtues the best keybed I have found is in the 700NX, The CC2's keys feel like a toy, I had a keyb duo and the keys were great - so it is possible, even in single manual.

We need those drawbars and we need them tactile real rods. We need presets for drawbar positions too, the CC2 did not get that right I have not used its sibling.

Perhaps drawbars can be utilised as control sliders.

We need to store quality sounds - not just from one source, but be able to support VSTs' DXI or whatever is flovour of the month - hence a PC on board.

Most EP interfaces could be modelled with a touch screen interface, this just doesn't seem to be right for Hammond though. (IMO)


Yes, as people point out, the surface of the keyboard is changing in its sensitivites, this needs to be exploited - I do orchestral VST stuff myself and I know how important that is.

There MUST be a facility for a screen size you want. Most people have a tablet around in the West, or can get one cut down p[rices from China. If the storage is onboard the keyboard, and is of SSD quality - this takes the strain of the variety of tablets that might be around. Most things would function.

Thinking about robustness - Carbon fibre? Composite materials? We would pay, if they got it right.

They can build aircraft wings, polythene last for thousands of years in the soil.(Po not literal)

It all needs rethinking.

Right back to the I,VI, II,V's

Z

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#2379910 - Today at 05:07 AM Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 233
Loc: UK

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#2379921 - 11 minutes 33 seconds ago Re: We Need Someone to Build this keyboard PLEASE! [Re: ZeroZero]
Cmin Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 241
Loc: Swabia
Check out Böhm Organs.
They even make personalised keyboards.


Edited by Cmin (9 minutes 51 seconds ago)
_________________________
Cheers,
Lenny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FP-80, HP 3000s, synths, guitars, mics, MBP, interfaces, Voicelive 2, ableton, Pianoteq, nubert A-200 active monitors

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