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#2380040 - 01/30/15 01:31 PM Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup
Auver Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 228
Loc: Norway
Hello all!

I study piano/keyboard at a music university first year, and I got a pretty sweet gig that net me some cash and now I want to improve my setup. I am not really much of a programmer, more of a player. I want to have gear enough so I can take on almost any job and deliver great sounds (for instance event-gigs where I might need several different types of sounds). I am seeking advice for what gearchoices to make, so I'll list what I have, what I think I need. First I'll start with the criterias for the gear.

- Only hardware, no computer and software stuff. I will work on computer and software stuff later when I have my synth knowledge at a decent level.
- No mini keys
- Well built, robust instruments. I don't want 2kg plastic keyboards.


This is what I have as of now:
- Nord Stage 2. This is my bread & butter board. It's been very faithful to me and I love it. Lately I've started in a band where I have more of a synth role, and while the synth section has been working nicely so far, I want more options.
- Yamaha MOX6. I pretty much only use this for event-gigs or similar, where I need strings stuff etc. I also love some of the pads on it. Mostly used when I need strings.
- Novation SL MKii controller. Was planning on using it with Mainstage, but my macbook is a retard so I ditched it, and therefor it is currenly unused.


So basically I have a lot of it covered. Pianos, EP's, Clav and organ from the Nord, strings, brass and pads on the Yamaha.

So what I clearly is missing is a decent synth, for that I have decided to purchase the Nord Lead 4. I do also not have a decent synth bass, and for that I planning on purchasing a Moog Minitaur to connect to my Novation.

Can anyone think of other areas I am lacking in, and which I could be able to fill with an instrument? I want to be able to handle any job that gets thrown at me.

Cheers
_________________________
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-811
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha MOX6
Novation SL MKii

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#2380051 - 01/30/15 01:54 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
ElmerJFudd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 144
You don't really need anything. If you bring the Nord Stage, MOX, and the Lead- all 3, you have all your bread and butter sounds. Take a look at your amplification system and how you are handling Audio and MIDI routing to make an improvement in your sound. How are you for portability?. Cases? Rolling Cart? Are you using a mixer or PA?. Do you sing as well?. Mic, stand, and cable?

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#2380080 - 01/30/15 02:40 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3551
I agree with Elmer. You may not get the very best of a given type of sound out of your rig (or *any* rig that is smaller than Rick Wakeman's), but you should be able to get a pretty good semblance of any sound you're looking for out of what you already have.

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#2380082 - 01/30/15 02:47 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 399
Just to add to the comments already said, really.

Sometimes people think they need to throw money or kit at the solution - but your audience, the listeners are almost certainly oblivious to any enhancements.

It's nearly always all about the playing. To quote Lance "I never called her fat..." sorry, wrong quote: "It's not about the bike" (yes, I know I'm rather teeing up a punchline, there, but that's me - I'm all about the giving back...)

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#2380084 - 01/30/15 03:06 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12337
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I agree with what's been said so far. Really take a look at your current PA system and see if that's lacking. What kind of gigs are these really? Will you be a one-man band type thing, or playing keys in a band? What style of music?

Rather than looking around for another instrument to lug around, why not try and find one instrument that could handle most or all of your needs? I'd look into Kawai MP7, Roland RD-800, and Casio PX-5S. Keep your other boards in case there's a job that requires a specific sound, as all of these can act as a MIDI controller of the other boards.

Personally I'd want the simplest/fastest setup since I'm the one setting up and taking down my stuff. It's fun to buy new gear, but at the end of the day, it has more to do with how well you can play what you have than how much stuff you've accumulated.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11


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#2380192 - 01/30/15 08:52 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Morodiene]
Auver Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 228
Loc: Norway
Hi all and thanks for your replies. I just want to clarify something.

The reason why I want to buy new gear is NOT to compensate for my playing. My playing is something I work on all the time. I think of these gear purchases as an investment. If someone says "Hey this track needs some wubblewubble-dubstep bass" I want to be able to give it them. This is where the gear comes in, my playing has nothing to do with making these sounds. I also believe highly in good sounds, for instance if I played organ from a Yamaha Motif instead of my Nord I would clearly hear that the quality in sound is significant. And I'm not alone on this.

TL;DR: If an employer asks for one specific sound, I want to be able to give it him as close as possible.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
You don't really need anything. If you bring the Nord Stage, MOX, and the Lead- all 3, you have all your bread and butter sounds. Take a look at your amplification system and how you are handling Audio and MIDI routing to make an improvement in your sound. How are you for portability?. Cases? Rolling Cart? Are you using a mixer or PA?. Do you sing as well?. Mic, stand, and cable?


PA system is a good point, I'll take a look at that. Will most likely skip that for a while though since I can rent a PA system for almost no coin at my school.

Originally Posted By: Lester Burnham
Just to add to the comments already said, really.

Sometimes people think they need to throw money or kit at the solution - but your audience, the listeners are almost certainly oblivious to any enhancements.

It's nearly always all about the playing. To quote Lance "I never called her fat..." sorry, wrong quote: "It's not about the bike" (yes, I know I'm rather teeing up a punchline, there, but that's me - I'm all about the giving back...)


I get your point, and I agree to a certain extent. But the difference in sound is actually huge, in my opinion. For instance, the difference between a Fender Rhodes and the rhodes patch on my Nord Stage is insane.

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
I agree with what's been said so far. Really take a look at your current PA system and see if that's lacking. What kind of gigs are these really? Will you be a one-man band type thing, or playing keys in a band? What style of music?

Rather than looking around for another instrument to lug around, why not try and find one instrument that could handle most or all of your needs? I'd look into Kawai MP7, Roland RD-800, and Casio PX-5S. Keep your other boards in case there's a job that requires a specific sound, as all of these can act as a MIDI controller of the other boards.


Gigs are all kinds of stuff. I just want to be prepared for any gig. I do mostly stuff in band settings though, never one-man-band things. Regarding getting one instrument to to do it all; that could work but I really hate diving into menus. I like knobby boards (Nord) and I also like creating my own sounds.
_________________________
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-811
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha MOX6
Novation SL MKii

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#2380209 - 01/30/15 09:33 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3551
I never suggest a single board as your primary setup. Too many advantages to two. Piano action for piano, organ-friendly action for organ. Redundancy in case a board fails or gets damaged at a gig. Ability to play multiple parts without having to rely so much on splits and worrying about running out of "real estate" for a part you're playing.

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#2380222 - 01/30/15 10:31 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: anotherscott]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12337
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I never suggest a single board as your primary setup. Too many advantages to two. Piano action for piano, organ-friendly action for organ. Redundancy in case a board fails or gets damaged at a gig. Ability to play multiple parts without having to rely so much on splits and worrying about running out of "real estate" for a part you're playing.


That's a good point, although I suppose I've never had that happen before where a DP doesn't work. Like I said, personally, I'd prefer having a good stage DP and then bring along what's needed for the other stuff. Then you can do piano things, and other stuff as well. Right now, the OP doesn't really have anything piano-like (well, only in the loosest sense, anyways).
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11


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#2380311 - Yesterday at 05:23 AM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 399
Originally Posted By: Auver
Originally Posted By: Lester Burnham
Just to add to the comments already said, really.

Sometimes people think they need to throw money or kit at the solution - but your audience, the listeners are almost certainly oblivious to any enhancements.

It's nearly always all about the playing. To quote Lance "I never called her fat..." sorry, wrong quote: "It's not about the bike" (yes, I know I'm rather teeing up a punchline, there, but that's me - I'm all about the giving back...)


I get your point, and I agree to a certain extent. But the difference in sound is actually huge, in my opinion. For instance, the difference between a Fender Rhodes and the rhodes patch on my Nord Stage is insane.

Here's the thing, though - you may notice some difference - your audience, and other people you play with, may, or may not be blissfully unaware.

I don't have a wealth of experience of gigging musicians, but I do have experience of some that I've known - and in nearly all the cases I can think of, the things they obsessed about, nobody else cared about.

When I see a keyboard player gets stacks of kit out, set it up, and talk about obsessing about the sound, I think it's all about them. The audience, and / or any other band members probably couldn't care less - they're more likely to think: "I wish he'd play this...", or "I wish he'd play that better..."

I'd say aim for a decent digital stage piano - RD 800 is an obvious choice, another being the PX-5S, no doubt there's others to consider too. And a decent synth. Any more is either redundancy / back-up, or more likely about what's in your head more than what's in other peoples'.

Whenever I've watched / listened to any musicians play, I don't recall once ever thinking "Oh, I wish he had better kit..." or, "I wish that particular synthesized sound was better..." - BUT there's plenty of times when I've thought - "Well I wish he could play better..." or "I wish he'd played that with more thought / care / involvement"

It's one thing to obsess about sound and kit, when you're playing your own kit for your own edification, but another when you're performing - consider what's really about you, and what's really about your audience, or other band members. GAS is very seductive, but it IS a distraction, as is allowing you to be distracted by things that other people may well not care about, under the notion that it's affecting your performance.

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#2380314 - Yesterday at 06:11 AM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 913
Hi Auver,
I agree with most of the others - you are already covered very well (especially after adding a Lead). If you can rent a good PA that's indeed another issue you don't need to worry about at the moment.
While I can understand that you love your Nord for many things (I'm in that camp soundwise as well, and the knob&button interface is just great) one thing I find a little limiting is the action (for piano sounds). How do you get on with the Stage's action? Of course there is always a trade-off between weight and action quality. However, some would look, for an *ideal* setup, to include a board that surpasses the Nord in this respect.

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#2380926 - Today at 02:28 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 238
Loc: UK
when talking synths there are really two areas - vitage/retro synths and their emulations and the modern synths.

Its useful to think this way because the old synths primarily constructed their sounds from oscillator waves, whereas the new synths do this, but also have ways of mangling real audio samples.

For me, I find a sound much more convincing if its got an element of real world. Organic.

I don't really know the hardware side at all, but if you haven't got Omnisphere rthere is a gap.
Having the right buttons used to be an issue, and controllers come in good and bad, but nowadays crafting sounds can be done on screen in many ways that a hardware synth could not capture.

just a few thoughts.

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#2380927 - Today at 02:31 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
ZeroZero Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 238
Loc: UK
Kronus - should be ruled in or out

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#2381009 - Today at 05:31 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: ZeroZero]
Auver Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 228
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I never suggest a single board as your primary setup. Too many advantages to two. Piano action for piano, organ-friendly action for organ. Redundancy in case a board fails or gets damaged at a gig. Ability to play multiple parts without having to rely so much on splits and worrying about running out of "real estate" for a part you're playing.


Very true, I could never have only one keyboad.

Originally Posted By: Lester Burnham
Here's the thing, though - you may notice some difference - your audience, and other people you play with, may, or may not be blissfully unaware.

I don't have a wealth of experience of gigging musicians, but I do have experience of some that I've known - and in nearly all the cases I can think of, the things they obsessed about, nobody else cared about.

When I see a keyboard player gets stacks of kit out, set it up, and talk about obsessing about the sound, I think it's all about them. The audience, and / or any other band members probably couldn't care less - they're more likely to think: "I wish he'd play this...", or "I wish he'd play that better..."

I'd say aim for a decent digital stage piano - RD 800 is an obvious choice, another being the PX-5S, no doubt there's others to consider too. And a decent synth. Any more is either redundancy / back-up, or more likely about what's in your head more than what's in other peoples'.

Whenever I've watched / listened to any musicians play, I don't recall once ever thinking "Oh, I wish he had better kit..." or, "I wish that particular synthesized sound was better..." - BUT there's plenty of times when I've thought - "Well I wish he could play better..." or "I wish he'd played that with more thought / care / involvement"

It's one thing to obsess about sound and kit, when you're playing your own kit for your own edification, but another when you're performing - consider what's really about you, and what's really about your audience, or other band members. GAS is very seductive, but it IS a distraction, as is allowing you to be distracted by things that other people may well not care about, under the notion that it's affecting your performance.


I get your point, but I must say I disagree. I've had the honour to work with some very skilled musicians, and they do absolutely care about sound. Also if what you say that it's more about me than about the people I am performing for, imo that matters as well. I for one get much more inspiration and I really just play better when the sound and feel is right (grand piano vs some budget DP).

Also, let's say your performing for a crowd which has no clue about music. They might not be able to tell or think "oh I wish he had a better synth bass sound right there", but they will SURELY enjoy it more if the sound is good than if it is average.

Originally Posted By: maurus
Hi Auver,
I agree with most of the others - you are already covered very well (especially after adding a Lead). If you can rent a good PA that's indeed another issue you don't need to worry about at the moment.
While I can understand that you love your Nord for many things (I'm in that camp soundwise as well, and the knob&button interface is just great) one thing I find a little limiting is the action (for piano sounds). How do you get on with the Stage's action? Of course there is always a trade-off between weight and action quality. However, some would look, for an *ideal* setup, to include a board that surpasses the Nord in this respect.


I find the Nord action to be just fine for performing, but I never practice piano on it. But maybe I should invest some of the money in a practice digital piano. Do you have any suggestions when it comes to such a thing? Preferably a pretty heavy/grand piano like action. Also for this I would prefer not to spend money on a top of the line product, since I could just use a board in my room for more practicing.

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
when talking synths there are really two areas - vitage/retro synths and their emulations and the modern synths.

Its useful to think this way because the old synths primarily constructed their sounds from oscillator waves, whereas the new synths do this, but also have ways of mangling real audio samples.

For me, I find a sound much more convincing if its got an element of real world. Organic.

I don't really know the hardware side at all, but if you haven't got Omnisphere rthere is a gap.
Having the right buttons used to be an issue, and controllers come in good and bad, but nowadays crafting sounds can be done on screen in many ways that a hardware synth could not capture.

just a few thoughts.


I agree, I've been considering a Prophet for the analog sound, but I am a huge fan of Nords and I personally think the Nord Lead sounds great.

Quote:
Kronus - should be ruled in or out


I don't want a Kronos. Too heavy. wink
_________________________
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-811
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha MOX6
Novation SL MKii

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#2381011 - Today at 05:37 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
Auver Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 228
Loc: Norway
Also; do anyone have experience with the Roland Integra 7?

I'm considering buying it and selling my MOX. Anyone know how the strings & brass compare to the MOX? *Looks anotherscott's way*

Also if the EP's/pianos/organs there are usable? And if there are sounds on the Integra that aren't useable at all?

Lots of questions here it once, hehe.
_________________________
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-811
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha MOX6
Novation SL MKii

Top
#2381018 - Today at 05:42 PM Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 399
Originally Posted By: Auver
Originally Posted By: Lester Burnham
Here's the thing, though - you may notice some difference - your audience, and other people you play with, may, or may not be blissfully unaware.

I don't have a wealth of experience of gigging musicians, but I do have experience of some that I've known - and in nearly all the cases I can think of, the things they obsessed about, nobody else cared about.

When I see a keyboard player gets stacks of kit out, set it up, and talk about obsessing about the sound, I think it's all about them. The audience, and / or any other band members probably couldn't care less - they're more likely to think: "I wish he'd play this...", or "I wish he'd play that better..."

I'd say aim for a decent digital stage piano - RD 800 is an obvious choice, another being the PX-5S, no doubt there's others to consider too. And a decent synth. Any more is either redundancy / back-up, or more likely about what's in your head more than what's in other peoples'.

Whenever I've watched / listened to any musicians play, I don't recall once ever thinking "Oh, I wish he had better kit..." or, "I wish that particular synthesized sound was better..." - BUT there's plenty of times when I've thought - "Well I wish he could play better..." or "I wish he'd played that with more thought / care / involvement"

It's one thing to obsess about sound and kit, when you're playing your own kit for your own edification, but another when you're performing - consider what's really about you, and what's really about your audience, or other band members. GAS is very seductive, but it IS a distraction, as is allowing you to be distracted by things that other people may well not care about, under the notion that it's affecting your performance.


I get your point, but I must say I disagree. I've had the honour to work with some very skilled musicians, and they do absolutely care about sound. Also if what you say that it's more about me than about the people I am performing for, imo that matters as well. I for one get much more inspiration and I really just play better when the sound and feel is right (grand piano vs some budget DP).

I'm not saying that musicians don't care about sound - they do - sometimes seemingly rather obsessively, for their own ends / needs, more than either colleagues or audience, though - that's my point.

Originally Posted By: Auver
Also, let's say your performing for a crowd which has no clue about music. They might not be able to tell or think "oh I wish he had a better synth bass sound right there", but they will SURELY enjoy it more if the sound is good than if it is average.

I think it depends.

I think a lot of it is in the heads of some musicians, more than any real phenomenon that others will pick up on. And I suppose even if it is, if it's an obsession that's not unhealthy or unaffordable, then what harm. It can be a distraction though.

Personally, I'm much more likely to be thinking about how a musician plays, and as much as anything, their connection and expression used when playing something. True enough, if the sound was poor, it would probably detract, but to be honest, I can't recall having thought that.

Poor PAs / amplification / mixing / levels can be a different thing, though.

For me, it's all about the playing. So long as the sound doesn't seem poor, inadequate or lacking, I think it's more of a distraction than of help.

But like plenty of enthusiasts, there's always the temptation of the BBD (bigger, better deal) around the corner, it terms of kit.

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#2381047 - 16 minutes 11 seconds ago Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: Auver]
emenelton Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 577
Originally Posted By: Auver
Also; do anyone have experience with the Roland Integra 7?

I'm considering buying it and selling my MOX. Anyone know how the strings & brass compare to the MOX? *Looks anotherscott's way*

Also if the EP's/pianos/organs there are usable? And if there are sounds on the Integra that aren't useable at all?

Lots of questions here it once, hehe.


I owned the Integra, the strings and brass and other things are really good. I never liked the ap and your stage 2 has just as good or better eps'.
How-ever, for your dream rig I think the Roland FA6 ? would be a good choice to replace the Yamaha.

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#2381051 - 6 minutes 44 seconds ago Re: Need gearchoice help - the "ultimate" setup [Re: emenelton]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3551
Originally Posted By: emenelton
I owned the Integra, the strings and brass and other things are really good. I never liked the ap and your stage 2 has just as good or better eps'.
How-ever, for your dream rig I think the Roland FA6 ? would be a good choice to replace the Yamaha.

I think the only places the FA-06 has the advantage over the MOX would be in organ and synth sounds... but he likewise has that covered in the NS2, so I don't see the advantage of replacing the MOX with the FA.

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