Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Critique my posture (updated! pics)

This was enough, for me, to make questions unnecessary.

As I see it, a 'good' position at the piano is all about balance. Meaning, when I'm in balance I can move all over the keyboard without tensing up, or fall over for that matter.

I may have an advantage in being a (horse)rider. This is also all about balance. And in the very beginning of my piano journey, struggling with getting the right 'posture', a friend mentioned to me that there are similarities in riding and playing. That clicked with me. I sat at the piano, it being off and not playing, scooted around on the seat, adjusted my legs back and forth, reached for the far left and right of the keyboard. And in doing so found my 'right' position where I'm in perfect balance. I can reach the far left (feeling my leg taking some of the shift in weight) or right, and my whole body is free to move along with my playing, which it instantly started to do. I did not need to focus on 'sitting up straight', as soon as I found my balance in natural position, my back was also 'straight' when still, but flexing with my movements. I never get tired in my back no matter how long I play. That said, I do not 'sit' for too long at a time. Shorter sessions are better for memorizing and learning in general. And the muscles need a break too.

Certainly, this is nearly the best posture for playing. The angle of the thighs/trunk could do with being a little more acute.

Well, there ARE of course differences.
For one, the piano doesn't eat near as many carrots

Oh, I forgot to say you get the effect by blocking up the back legs of your stool by an inch. Another difference - horsesh*t doesn't come out of a piano (though that can depend on the player).

My entire approach to teaching piano is radically different to much of what's being taught today. I want my students to PLAY the piano first and above all. So I simplify everything at the beginning, with my main emphasis being on reading the notes. The are so many different aspects ... and points of view ... regarding every detail of teaching and learning. I keep things simple because I want my students to LOVE good music as well as enjoy their lessons.

To my critics I ask them to conduct a little experiment. Ask a dozen adults if they took piano lessons as a child. Then if they did ... ask them two questions ... did they enjoy their lessons and do they still play or listen to music ( apart from Pop music). The answer is depressing. Most will study piano three years on the average and most will never touch it again. It's right there.

So I do not mire my students with unnecessary technicalities at the beginning. When I"ve "hooked" them ... well then I give them a royally rough ride to perfection.

As to posture ... obviously I prompt them not to slump, unless they're curved in to mold a phrase ( and that doesn't come at the beginning) . Obviously no one should use a chair wth a back and certainly not glue their spine to that back.

But three things are important. The first is never to slide your head forward on the neck ... often done when the student can't see the music clearly. Get a pair of glasses if necessary but do NOT slide that neck. ( I have permanently damaged cervical vertebrae from this habit ... not from my piano but from years in Asia where I worked as a journalist with an old Remington typewriter.) Do NOT slide your head forward.

Second .... swivel your waist. In all directions. Think of a hula dancer if you must. But swing with your arm motions ... If you're reaching for a high note ...swing right over. You might even raise a buttock off the stool to reach. Swing back for a dramatic chord. Swing forward to lean into a phrase.

Third .... RELAX.

Nailed it for me. When I try to sit in "good posture" I end up straining. I'm told my shoulders should be back and to sit up straight. For me that ends up equalling a whole lot of tension and held positions.

I searched online and found an alexander technique professional that I might look into. The journey for pain-free playing continues.

You hear what you want to hear.

It's a matter of listening to your body and what you have experienced as you worked with it. "Hearing what you want to hear" is something entirely different.

Ask any Alexander teacher they'll tell you 'body speak with forked tongue' it's called habituation. Still, if the OP wants a nail on head rather than advice from qualified and experienced practitioners that's his prerogative, but he may as well stop people randomly on the street! Not so much a rant at you as at the web (and its inhabitants).

and, no matter much you may wish otherwise, standing and sitting are 'held positions'.

I have been given a lot of advice over the years from qualified individuals in Houston (physical therapists, doctors, etc).

We all see the same thing in regards to posture, etc. But when it comes to finding solutions to these impairments I'm a bit more pragmatic than the doctors or PTs. Most of them have suggestions that will require a lot of time and MAYBE the body can correct itself and regain better posture. I certainly have adopted some of their exercise regimes in an attempt to correct the forward head tilt and whatnot. But their advice on how to sit at work and piano have caused me a great deal of lower back pain.

I'm trying to practice the piano for 45 mins a day 5 days a week or so. That's not asking a whole lot from my body. But I can't be in extreme pain while playing.

It may very well take seeing someone who teaches Alexander's technique and I've already been looking.

My point being your shoulders should be back - your arms hang down your back not the front. If you want to go with the 'everybody's different' line go ahead but in anatomical respects 99% are not - maybe see an anatomist? And I'll repeat - sitting or standing are holding positions otherwise how would you remain still?

Maybe read this: http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/understanding-your-fascia?page=single . Something usually neglected in these discussions. It's the inner statue you're building (for good or ill) on a daily basis.

Starting with a line from your previous post....

There are times when we need to get a general feel for what is out there. I went that route myself a decade ago when all I knew was the tiny corner of one particular teacher's studio when I was studying my first instrument to be learned with a teacher. It's the difference between a mouse hole view, and seeing the whole room. You don't commit to anything in that room - you get general impressions.

What you are trying to do at this moment is to play the role of this "qualified practitioner" by giving very specific advice in a manner that that a real practitioner would not do. That person would get to know the student, he would be working with the student one-on-one in real time, with two-way dialogue. That work would go over a longer time - not a one-off spate of advice in a forum.

To begin with, even if your advice came from a place of expertise, which we have no way of knowing, and even if it were spot on for this person, what you say can be misunderstood and thus not practised as intended. Physical advice judiciously followed can have bad consequences, especially if a person is not to listen to his own body. Even if the advice is correct for the individual, and understood by the individual, without supervision and feedback by a competent person, a student can think he is doing what he understood, but not know that he is totally missing the mark.

Personally, were I looking for a teacher to guide me - which I am not - I would want a teacher who can see, hear, and understand, and that includes understanding what I am saying rather than reacting to what I might be saying. Your responses to the things I have written shows assumptions. And when you dismiss one of the things I wrote as "wishes", that pretty well illustrates it - I did not cite a wish, I cited a teaching from an expert with decades of experience. What I rather suspect is that you did not understand what I was talking about, which is not surprising since a one-liner cannot explain things adequately. But you lacked the curiosity to ask and find out.

I totally agree that instructions should not be taken off strangers on the Internet.

I think you'll need to be a bit more succinct - mouse holes??

1. How do you know how that advice will be applied and what result it will have? Especially since the OP is already experiencing "a whole lot of tension" by trying to do exactly that? 2. This upsets me because it is that very thing that created a mess for me which took me several years to work out of. Precise advice is not a good idea in a forum environment - too much can go wrong.

I hate to say I'm neither interested in your feelings nor your anecdotes - as I said I doubt the OP shoulder/armwise is any different from others.

I am addressing my fellow members in this forum. The interest or not of a single member is neither here nor there.

Very gallant I'm sure.

In college I was a certified personal trainer (through NASM) so I did get a lot of exposure to the physical therapy side of things.

But that was awhile ago and I know things have changed tremendously even in the last 10 years or so in terms of what we know. I put together a plan for myself and thought I'd post it here in case others are interested (since my poor posture tends to be very common). Use discretion. Cliff notes at bottom.

So after taking pictures and analyzing my entire body the conclusions I've come to are that I have...

Anterior Pelvic Tilt & Thoracic Kyphosis/Forward Head Tilt

Anterior Pelvic Tilt
Short tight muscles = hips, gluteus medius/minimus, & lumbar extensors (NOT gluteus maximus)

Long weak muscles = gluteus maximus, abdominals

Foam Roll Exercises
1) Hips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ5g0RFv514


Stretches
1) Hip flexors



2) Erector spinae





Exercises
1) Back Bridge



2) Front bridge



3) Bird Dog Exercise




Thoracic Kyphosis/Forward Head Tilt

Short tight muscles = Chest (pec major/minor), sternocleidomastoid, & posterior neck muscles

Long weak muscles = Upper back (traps, latissimus dorsi, rhomboids) & deep neck flexors (front neck muscles)

Foam Roll Exercises
1) Chest using massage ball
2) Traps using lacrosse ball/tennis ball



Stretches
1) Chest



2) Sternocleidomastoid



3) Thoracic Stretch (don't roll lumbar spine or neck)




Exercises
1) Chin tuck routine against wall



2) Rows with exercise bands





------------------------Cliff Notes---------------------
Foam Roll = Hips, gluteus medus/minimus, chest, sternocleidomastoid

Stretch = Hip Flexors, lower back (see a doctor beforehand), thoracic spine, chest, sternocleidomastoid

Strengthen = Glutes, abdominals, upper back (CORE!!!)