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Joined: Nov 2014
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Basically I am wondering, is there any difference between the action in the 506 and 508? For instance, if you compare the Yamaha CLP545 and CLP575 they have the same action, but the 575 also has linear graded hammers for individual key weighting. Does the same logic apply to 506 vs 508 - same action but more bells and details to the 508 as the more expensive model? Or are they, truly, completely identical and only software features and speaker system differentiate the two pianos?
Depending on the answer to that question, are the keys of the HP508 (and perhaps 506) individually weighted like Yamaha tries to do with the 575 to imitate how it works on a real grand piano (bas keys are heavier, gets progressively lighter as you move up, no two keys are alike)? Or are they weighted in sections, which I understand is the case of the CLP545 (priced similarly to 506)?
Finally, can you tell me what material is used for the keys of the HP508and HP506?
According to Roland's spec sheets, 506 and 508 are the same in terms of keys and action. But a salesman at a local music store would tell me they are different. So now I'm not quite sure what to believe.
I am almost ready to decide which model is right for me. This information will really help me make the best decision.
Last edited by Magh; 02/18/15 03:48 PM.
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If you don`t mind my saying, why are you so bothered? Now that I know the Yammie 575 has individually graded hammers, I have significantly less respect for that company. . . . I see no point. Whose fingers are sensitive enough to profit from this? If you want to splash the cash (nothing wrong with that) why not make sure you get real benefit from it?
Just my rambling thoughts! Have fun, whatever you decide!
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgetiny.jpg) "
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Basically I am wondering, is there any difference between the action in the 506 and 508? Magh, I recall an informative post from Jay Roland a few months ago in which he outlined the differences between the PHA4 Standard, Premium, and Concert actions. I've tried to search the forum, but have not managed to find the exact post, unfortunately. Assuming you have play-tested the HP506/HP508, which did you prefer? Kind regards, James x
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Basically I am wondering, is there any difference between the action in the 506 and 508? For instance, if you compare the Yamaha CLP545 and CLP575 they have the same action, but the 575 also has linear graded hammers for individual key weighting. Does the same logic apply to 506 vs 508 - same action but more bells and details to the 508 as the more expensive model? Or are they, truly, completely identical and only software features and speaker system differentiate the two pianos?
Depending on the answer to that question, are the keys of the HP508 (and perhaps 506) individually weighted like Yamaha tries to do with the 575 to imitate how it works on a real grand piano (bas keys are heavier, gets progressively lighter as you move up, no two keys are alike)? Or are they weighted in sections, which I understand is the case of the CLP545 (priced similarly to 506)?
Finally, can you tell me what material is used for the keys of the HP508and HP506?
According to Roland's spec sheets, 506 and 508 are the same in terms of keys and action. But a salesman at a local music store would tell me they are different. So now I'm not quite sure what to believe.
I am almost ready to decide which model is right for me. This information will really help me make the best decision. Both the HP506 and HP508 feature the PHA-4 Concert Action. There is no difference in Key feel at all. PHA-4 Concert uses a 2 piece key design using our proprietary Ivory feel key top material which has been developed over several revisions. Ebony Feel is featured on the black notes using another a proprietary material developed over several years. The weighting is over 7 difference zones. Middle C is almost exactly 56 grams. At the bottom of the keybed at A0 it is about 63 grams. And at C8 you should see about 49 grams. The difference between the 506 and 508 models comes down to Piano Designer and Cabinet/Speaker system. The core piano performance (touch and tone) should be identical. hope this helps. Jay
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Regarding the action on the Roland, they should be the exact same. However they might feel slightly different based on the the overall build of the piano and key bed - not sure. But I cant imagine it being a significant difference - slight at best (??). I have the same action on my RD800 and it's excellent IMO. I can only imaging it being just as fantastic or maybe even hint more authentic on an console. ![[Linked Image]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2200361/rup.JPG) Edit - Jay you beat me to it
Last edited by Marko in Boston; 02/18/15 08:18 PM. Reason: Edit - Jay you beat me to it
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hi, first sorry for my bad english.
where do you find this specification ? i don't find anything about keys weighted on the roland web site.
i have already a roland fp50, do you say if on this model have individually keys weighted also ? i think no.
i plan to change my fp50 (this is my first digital piano, i'm novice but i find keyboard tiring when i practiced for a long time and it is noisy), do you think upgrade for a hp508 making a big difference for keys action ? and supernatural engine it is the same between fp50 and hp508 ?
i hope you understand my bad english, thanks you !
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...I have the same action on my RD800 and it's excellent IMO. I can only imaging it being just as fantastic or maybe even hint more authentic on an console..... Amen and agree 110%! These keyboards have a wonderful action and a wonderful selection of sounds!
Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-5s, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Yamaha YC61, Pianoteq 7.0, Native Instruments, Gig Performer
My motto: Play and Let Play!
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hi, first sorry for my bad english.
where do you find this specification ? i don't find anything about keys weighted on the roland web site.
i have already a roland fp50, do you say if on this model have individually keys weighted also ? i think no.
i plan to change my fp50 (this is my first digital piano, i'm novice but i find keyboard tiring when i practiced for a long time and it is noisy), do you think upgrade for a hp508 making a big difference for keys action ? and supernatural engine it is the same between fp50 and hp508 ?
i hope you understand my bad english, thanks you ! FP-50 was a six zone progressive weight. The new PHA-4 actions are all 7 zone. The HP508 is very much an upgraded SuperNatural engine from what the FP-50 generation offered. You'll have to seek one out to try. In Terms of key action, the FP-50 used Ivory Feel-G, which was designed to be used in our compact and portable instruments. It feels very good, but the PHA-4 Concert in the HP508 is superior as it is a generation newer and has no compromise in design to account for portability. Jay
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By the way, Jay please can you say if the supernatural sound engine is the same on the hp507 and the hp508 or not?
Thanks
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There is some difference in the way that the Engine does resonances and core tone generation. Plus the Keybed scanning sensor on the newer PHA-4 actions, lets the sound engine do more of the sound generation and isn't also responsible for doing keybed scanning. It's more responsive and more accurate than it has ever been before.
Jay
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If you don`t mind my saying, why are you so bothered? Now that I know the Yammie 575 has individually graded hammers, I have significantly less respect for that company. . . . I see no point. Whose fingers are sensitive enough to profit from this? If you want to splash the cash (nothing wrong with that) why not make sure you get real benefit from it?
Just my rambling thoughts! Have fun, whatever you decide! This is a question of realism. It is a feature of grand pianos, why shouldn't we request it in our DP's? I agree only a few people will truly benefit from this, but it definitely will not hurt! So I don't understand why you disprove of Yamaha's decision to implement this in their higher end DP's?
Magh, I recall an informative post from Jay Roland a few months ago in which he outlined the differences between the PHA4 Standard, Premium, and Concert actions. I've tried to search the forum, but have not managed to find the exact post, unfortunately.
Assuming you have play-tested the HP506/HP508, which did you prefer?
Kind regards,
James
x
I have play-tested both and I found that the 508 was the more satisfying of the two. I think this was primarily a result of sound, which makes sense. But this can make the HP508 feel better as well by placebo. But both a definitely great pianos, no doubt about it. Both the HP506 and HP508 feature the PHA-4 Concert Action. There is no difference in Key feel at all. PHA-4 Concert uses a 2 piece key design using our proprietary Ivory feel key top material which has been developed over several revisions. Ebony Feel is featured on the black notes using another a proprietary material developed over several years.
The weighting is over 7 difference zones. Middle C is almost exactly 56 grams. At the bottom of the keybed at A0 it is about 63 grams. And at C8 you should see about 49 grams.
The difference between the 506 and 508 models comes down to Piano Designer and Cabinet/Speaker system. The core piano performance (touch and tone) should be identical.
hope this helps.
Jay I see. Thank you for the detailed reply. Out of curiosity, how come Roland has decided to weigh the keys in these 7 zones and not individually? I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I was blind tested, but it is interesting none the less. Thank you for the replies everyone. You have been most helpful!
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I can't answer that with any authority at all.
Really though, my personal opinion is that the proof is in the playing. Not the specifications. Find me 10 people that could do a blind test of a individually weighted and a zoned keybed under normal playing conditions. Let each of those people get the answer correct 9 out of 10 times. And let each be able to explain why one is better than the other.
Jay
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magh said: ...I don't understand why you disprove of Yamaha's decision to implement this in their higher end DP's?
The reason why some people on this forum (including me) may not consider individual weighting to be important might be:
1. This is not a musical feature. It is an artifact of the nature of piano hammers relative to their strings/ pitches. There is no reason to suppose that, for example, composers take this into consideration when they arrange a piece of music. Why carry over an accident of construction (rather than a design feature) into a keyboard which doesn't need it?
2. Graded weighting has been a feature of most digital pianos for many years now, but it is less pronounced that its equivalent on an acoustic (maybe for reason 1. above). Therefore it's a bit of a bauble rather than a useful feature - such as an accurate, rich sounding decay period.
But as I say, this is a personal opinion - to others, the feature is important to have on a DP, and Yamaha have provided it.
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI
Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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I recall an informative post from Jay Roland a few months ago in which he outlined the differences between the PHA4 Standard, Premium, and Concert actions. I must have missed that memo. Just when I thought PHA4 actually kinda meant something... Am I correct in thinking PHA4 Premium and PHA4 Concert are identical except for the wood colored plastic sides of the Concert? What's up with the PHA4 Standard? I assume that since it seems to have replaced the "Ivory Feel G" that it is a somehow inferior (less superior if you will) action than the Premium and Concert? Lighter down weight? More sluggish? Less padded? What?
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I recall an informative post from Jay Roland a few months ago in which he outlined the differences between the PHA4 Standard, Premium, and Concert actions. I must have missed that memo. Just when I thought PHA4 actually kinda meant something... Am I correct in thinking PHA4 Premium and PHA4 Concert are identical except for the wood colored plastic sides of the Concert? What's up with the PHA4 Standard? I assume that since it seems to have replaced the "Ivory Feel G" that it is a somehow inferior (less superior if you will) action than the Premium and Concert? Lighter down weight? More sluggish? Less padded? What? The PHA-4 Premium and Concert actions have a couple of significant differences. One: The Concert action has a two piece key design. Two: The "Ebonized" sharps and flats only appear on the Concert Variant. The design of the PHA4 Standard is optimized for instruments where compact design and portability are the primary concerns. It is a big upgrade from the previous Ivory Feel G keybed. It also features the dedicated keybed scanning processor like it's big brothers. Downweight is similar to the PHA4 Concert and Premium and has a WAY more positive "bottom" than the Ivory Feel G. Hope this helps. Jay
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I'm OK with actions that mechanically feel the same having the same designation (e.g. PHA4) and being differentiated by tacked on keywords (e.g. Premium) but IMO completely different feeling actions should have clearly different monikers (e.g. Ivory Feel G). It's hard enough keeping these pseudo specs straight.
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I'm OK with actions that mechanically feel the same having the same designation (e.g. PHA4) and being differentiated by tacked on keywords (e.g. Premium) but IMO completely different feeling actions should have clearly different monikers (e.g. Ivory Feel G). It's hard enough keeping these pseudo specs straight. So the fact that the PHA4 Standard shares the following with it's bigger siblings means it's a pseudo spec? Ivory Feel Keybed Escapement 7 zones of weighting Keybed scanning sensor The feel is not very different at all. Our customers and their customers have told us that the PHA4 Standard is one of the best compact piano actions available. Don't get lost in specs. Go try an instrument equipped with the PHA-4 Standard, then for comparisons sake hopefully there's something next to it with PHA-4 Premium or Concert. You'll be pleasantly surprised. It is a great action at any price point.
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if you wouldnt pull a smoke and mirrors screen of marketing buzzwords, we would not get lost in specs as customers! I was there in the shops and tested various PHA4 actions from the HP504 upwards. They where all good to me, but you kept me wondering, what is now the actual difference betwenn PHA4 Standard, Concert and Premium (or whatever), which I could not really make out. Just call it PHA4, and install the same "best" key action into all our HP cabinet models, then the customers would not "get lost in specs".
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The feel is not very different at all. ... Don't get lost in specs. I understand cosmetic modifiers, and I haven't tried any of the variants of PHA4, but if any of them posses a differing dynamic response from the others then I would submit that PHA4 is an inconsistent and therefore potentially misleading spec that a person might reasonably get lost in.
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Out of anyone active on this forum, I would say that with my experience with Roland; and given that I've exhaustively played EVERY key action we've made for more than the last 10 years, I would be one of the best qualified to give an opinion of the differences between our actions.
And sorry to be so blunt dewster, but you should try them for yourself, instead of opining on a subject you have no first hand experience of.
So let me state it as clearly as I can. PHA-4 Standard is extremely close in feel to the Premium and Concert Variants. It is far closer to its siblings than Ivory Feel G was to it's PHA-3 siblings. I don't know that most people would feel a huge difference in down weight, up weight, response, dynamics, escapement, or almost any other aspect of the action. But the best way for the individual to tell, is to try them out and compare them closely.
I did. And did it exhaustively. I was very pleasantly surprised, and was excited for how good our compact and portable instruments key action was going to be moving forward. The Standard action is a huge improvement over the Ivory Feel G, and COMPLETELY deserves its PHA-4 designation.
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