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Hello everyone!

Some time ago I have bought an old Bluthner grand (from 1888) from which I felt "in love". After 2 years I sent him to restoration. He has been subjected to a very long working period, and after all that work he became gorgeous as he has certainly been in his youth, but only outside... The soundboard is in good condition, all the strings and pins are new. It has been voiced and the action regulated but... it doesn't have "that" Bluthner sound. It seems that he is dead, he has a sound with no soul, it seems that he his suffering, he wants to speak but he has no voice... and I'm so sad about that...

I would like to recover the beautiful sound of my Bluthner aliquot. My question is, would it be possible if I replace the action, or my piano will never "sing"?

Can anyone help me?...

[img]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...20000.1424444936.&type=3&theater[/img]

So sorry you are having problems. Are the hammers new?

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your answer.

No, the hammers are the original ones. But they seem to be in good condition... I don't know what's happening. My Bluthner has an acceptable sound but only some hours after being tunned. Then the sound seems to be gradually lost and on the next day he is dead" again.

The bass is considerably better than all the other notes. However, the hammers seem to be all in the same condition...

Sounds like a dead soundboard to be honest..... from what you've just said there

Did you try asking the rebuilder for help? A conscientious one will at least try and help you out. I am miles from being an expert, but if the original soundboard was not replaced and the piano sound was good before the rebuilding, I wouldn't think the soundboard is the problem.

New strings don't stay in perfect tune for very long. How long have the new strings been at pitch? I mean how long has it been since they were installed?

A fresh tuning is bolstering the sound of whatever you have. That the tone fades after only a few hours suggests a structural issue - either soundboard, pinblock, plate, bridge, or some combination. Replacing the action addresses different issues. New hammers would change the tone, but first things first.

Is there any crack in the cast iron plate? Is the old pinblock holding the new pins & strings? Is the soundboard concave (beyond flat)? Is there any separations in the piano's rim?

Hi,

Thanks for your answer.
Actualy when I bought the piano he was completely mute, and in very bad condition! When I talk about the sound, it is not the original sound of this piano (which I never heard), but the characteristic sound of Bluthner aliquot. The soundboard had been tested. At first I considered to replace it, but after being tested it was no necessary... I am worried about changing the action, and don't recover the sound I desire...

Bluthners of that age are notorious for having dead boards.

Did you see the thread on my Bluthner? http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2256660/1.html

It has a new action, new keyboard, but more importantly a new pin block, a new soundboard, completely restrung and is as good as when it was new. It has the classic Bluthner tone, not the modern one.

I have played many, many restored Bluthners with original soundboards and planks (restored....) but they have never sounded good. In comparison, the Bluthners from this workshop are amongst the finest pianos on the market.

I know that many old pianos have good soundboards, yes, it's true, but the likelihood of a piano from the 1880s having a good functional original soundboard system is, well, it's really not likely. It COULD have a crack in the frame too - no big deal if the piano is being rebuilt.

Dears Ed and PianoworkATL,

The piano has been tunned before comming to me, and tunnd again 1 month latter.
When I talk about losing the sound, it is not actualy related to tunning, but to the keys, I think... I mean, the sound becomes weaker and weaker, and some keys begin to "trap/hold" again. It seems that it loses strenght.

The soundboard is plane, there are no craks in the iron plate and the "bridges" are perfect. The new pins are fixed in the old pinblock. The old pins where 6.9 mm and the new ones are 7.1 mm (if my mind doesn't fail), to ensure a good attachment.

The rim has no separtion. It is an entire piece of rosewood...

As Ed mentioned, new strings stretch quickly and lose their tuning. It takes more than 2 tunings to settle new strings, especially when a piano has been below tension for many years.

joe80 is probably correct. The loss of tone suggests a dead soundboard, but it is still a bit of a guess as to other factors even if something as obvious as a crack is not visible.

It might be the perimeter plate bolts loosening a bit, coupled with the tuning. But it is really difficult to diagnose a sound problem over the internet. In any case, you is best to consider all the easy solutions before worrying about the difficult ones.

Were the bridge pins replaced?

Experiences like that are not only restricted to Bluethner. While many rebuilders do excellent work, few if any can guarantee the tone and sound of a piano after rebuilding. While many like to criticize or question new pianos in terms of "how long they will last" this has always been an at least as important problem for those sinking major $$ into a piano restoration.

Although some may not like me saying it, it's one of the reasons we have long giving up on rebuilding years ago.

No regrets.

Norbert

Norbert you are totally right of course, and the advantage with a new piano is that you can try the piano before you buy it. If you get a rebuilder with a good portfolio though, then you can try some of their work even if it's not the piano you end up with.

A properly rebuilt piano will be as good as new, and an experienced technician will know if there will be a problem with the 'core' of the piano.

The rebuilt vs new question is one that only you can answer. For me, it depends on the original piano. I happen to have a soft spot for late 19th/early 20th Century Blüthners, although there are absolutely magnificent and amazing new pianos out there to suit just about every budget.

I have difficulty believing a piano with an original board from 1888 is going to be in good enough shape for reuse with out some work to it and/or the bridges. This is one of the many examples of why its important to know what you have to begin with, in touch and tone, before buying the instrument and having it rebuilt sight unseen.

While this may be true it still doesn't guarantee or even indicate sound of piano later.

Quality of workmanship does not guarantee quality of tone.

This notwithstanding that it may also turn out better than expected.

A bit of a gamble,especially when having exact ideas or expectations..

Norbert

Norbert,
Just because you couldn't manage to get consistently excellent results managing a piano rebuilding facility doesn't mean that the enterprise itself is impossible. You can come experience my rebuilds to see what is possible.

If the technician understands the engineering of tone and touch guess work is much reduced.

Norbert makes a good point as it is not possible to predict how well a re-build will turn out. There is a "je ne sais quoi" with rebuilding in that the finest quality rebuilding may not invariably produce the result that was desired. On the other hand, some rebuilds may exceed expectations in the completed project.

My advice would be to choose a rebuilt piano that you like rather than risking the uncertainty of outcome in having a piano restored. There are also sentimental reasons for having a piano reconditioned. It could be a family heirloom that you want to keep and that is a perfectly understandable reason for having it restored.

I can also comprehend Norbert's take on rebuilding in that buying new is preferable. Piano dealers and indeed the entire piano industry, survive on the sale of new instruments. The re-cycling of the old does not support the sales of the new.

Kind regards,

Robert.

While I can agree every piano is unique, a good rebuilder stands by his work. Don't buy into the idea that it's some random, stars must align, unknowable kind of process.
Rebuilding and piano maintenance is also a very important part of the industry.