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#2389310 - 02/21/15 07:56 PM Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
OK, I'm about 4 years late for the party, but a couple of days ago I got my hands on the Vintage D. From my limited pre-purchase testing, I thought the more current Ivory American D sounded better, but it costs more, takes up 10x the SSD space, and requires a pesky iLok. So Vintage D it was.

First impressions
From the start, I'm running the sounds via my audio interface into the CA95's Line-In. My first impression was very "meh". The "Basic Grand" seemed rather dull and lifeless. The "Concert Hall" preset had ridiculous levels of reverb, and some others of the rather limited set of 12 presets were of the silly-season use-once-and-forget variety ("Spherical piano"??).

I did quickly notice the bizarre-sounding D#3, which sounds completely different to its neighbours when played mf or louder. I can probably live with it.

Second impressions
Then I got round to the Brilliant Pop preset, and things got better. Wow! The clarity of tone sounds amazing on the CA95. That's something that the CA95's main Kawai EX sample shares, but I could never get from Pianoteq, which sounds (great, but comparatively) muddy and unclear over the CA95's speakers, in the bass particularly.

Changing the DP's touch from my usual "Heavy" to "Normal" improved the "Basic Grand" preset a lot, and I'm sure it's possible to edit the velocity curve in Kontakt so that I don't have to manually switch all the time.

Overall I'm very impressed with the sound quality. The dynamics I get when playing are much better than I get using the CA95 or Pianoteq. And while I think Pianoteq doesn't work that well over the speakers, Vintage D sounds fantastic, just as good, and probably better (when I've got the hang of tweaking), than the internal sounds.

Tweaking
I've only just begun experimenting with tweaking the sounds. But I can tell that the control is quite remarkable for a sampled instrument, and being able to do stuff like easily adjust stereo width is very handy. I suspect I'll be making different presets for using with headphones and over the CA95's speakers, since the two sound very different. Or maybe I can work out how to configure some insert which I can switch on to do some EQ for one or the other.

Performance and latency
I've had a few annoying pops and glitches. This is much worse when running inside Cubase, rather than standalone or within SAVIhost, where it's mainly OK. My buffer is set at the minimum 64 samples, which according to the driver gives an Output Latency of 5 ms (obviously the actual latency, including receiving MIDI messages and play the sound, will be somewhat greater). I increased the number of samples to push the latency to 10 ms or so, which, being an extra 1/200th of a second, shouldn't be noticeable, but it really is. My theory is that the latency increase is actually much greater; maybe some day I'll get round to measuring it. But at the 64 samples level no latency is noticeable and the piano feels very responsive, probably more-so than Pianoteq.

Anyway, some questions of the n00b variety:

1) In their default forum, the Global Presets are not really usable for me, since repedalling / half pedalling / una corda are all turned off, which I always want to be on, as well as some tweaking to reverb etc. Is there any way to update these presets?

2) What's the best way of saving custom presets? The obvious one is as a .nka file using the Global Presets menu, but according to this thread
Originally Posted By PtJaa
I don't think you are supposed to change Global presets.

You save your settings by clicking on "Files|Save as" in the top toolbar in Kontakt player. Kontakt then lets you enter the name of the .nki file (don't change the folder where you save it, you want it to be in the same folder as other Vienna Grand .nki files), and this preset will be available to you next time you unfold the "Instruments" list in the Vienna Grand library bar in the left "Libraries" column of Kontakt (or just click twice on the white "Instruments" button in the Vienna Grand bar to refresh it).

Can that be right? Saving a whole new instrument to change the position of a couple of knobs and sliders?

Or are you supposed to use these mysterious "multis" in a .nkb file?

Perhaps there's a way to display your .nka files in the browser on the left hand side?

What happened to .fxp files as the standard for VST programs?

I'm probably over-thinking this. How do you guys save and recall your custom presets?

3) Is it possible to easily select these presets, e.g. via a MIDI controller? (The Load User Preset option requires selecting a file using the Windows file selector; not sure how you'd do this without a mouse.)

4) What's going on with the Pad Machine when you use the sustain pedal? Say you're holding the sustain pedal, you hold down another chord, and release the sustain pedal (or release and repedal, to clear the previous chord). The piano sounds keeps playing (of course), but the pad cuts out as if it's been damped. I can't find any mention of this problem via Google. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2389326 - 02/21/15 08:18 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3991
Loc: North Carolina
Yes, some of the presets are ridiculous. I just chose one, tweaked it, and saved it under another name.
Originally Posted By lolatu
1) In their default forum, the Global Presets are not really usable for me, since repedalling, half pedalling, and una corda are all turned off, which I always want to be on, as well as some tweaking to reverb etc. Is there any way to update these presets?

This is not possible:
Originally Posted By lolatu
3) Is it possible to easily select these presets, e.g. via a MIDI controller?
Kontakt does not support it, according to experts on another board. (Too bad!) frown

NASA rockets are launched from pads. But pianos don't have pads.
Yet this one thinks it should. And it does. And it's crap. I just ignore it.
Originally Posted By lolatu
4) What's going on with the Pad Machine when you use the sustain pedal?

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#2389385 - 02/21/15 11:42 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: MacMacMac]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
Quote:
This is not possible:
Originally Posted By lolatu
3) Is it possible to easily select these presets, e.g. via a MIDI controller?
Kontakt does not support it, according to experts on another board. (Too bad!) frown

Ohhhh..... frown

Quote:
Originally Posted By lolatu
4) What's going on with the Pad Machine when you use the sustain pedal?
NASA rockets are launched from pads. But pianos don't have pads.
Yet this one thinks it should. And it does. And it's crap. I just ignore it.

What if I want to play, say... Candle In The Wind at a big funeral? Where would we be without the ol' piano and strings, eh? wink
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2389466 - 02/22/15 06:17 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 464
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Lolatu, I tink JFP, dmd and others already wrote some posts on this matter (vst+CA95/ES7) and how to get the most of it.
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200

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#2389472 - 02/22/15 06:35 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 473
Loc: Poland
Lolatu, so, finally, which one sounded better and was better to play - Kawai as it is or Galaxy?

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#2389473 - 02/22/15 06:35 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 464
Loc: Valencia, Spain
On D#3:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1975071/Re:_Vintage_D.html
Edited: broken link


Edited by mabraman (02/22/15 10:36 AM)
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200

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#2389489 - 02/22/15 07:58 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
lophiomys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 228
Loc: Austria, EU
this RapidShare link doesnt seem to work for me.

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#2389610 - 02/22/15 03:02 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 242
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By mabraman
On D#3:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1975071/Re:_Vintage_D.html
Edited: broken link


I can try to re-upload my .nki solutions to the d#3 problem if I find a usable file-storage service ...but it will take me a couple days (I won't be home for some time)
_________________________
Kawai CA65 :: Galaxy: Vintage D, Vienna Grand, Giant :: Pianoteq 5 :: Kontakt 5 :: Reaper :: True Keys pianos

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#2389615 - 02/22/15 03:18 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
chickenlump Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By lolatu

1) In their default forum, the Global Presets are not really usable for me, since repedalling / half pedalling / una corda are all turned off, which I always want to be on, as well as some tweaking to reverb etc. Is there any way to update these presets?


If you tweak your settings, and choose the file button, and save as default multi, your new settings will stay when you open the Kontakt.

One random thing I found was change different Sample Rate. I initially figured my latency would be lower using 44100 (thinking it uses less processing power), but I think the samples are recorded at 96000. If your sound card/driver can process it, then the latency ends up being lower because it doesn't have to down sample the sample in real time.

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#2389643 - 02/22/15 04:26 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
PhJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 181
Loc: Brussels
Congratz on your purchase & thanks for your impressions on the Galaxy D.
If you have the opportunity to post an mp3, I would be interested to hear how it sounds (with pedaling, ..).

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#2389654 - 02/22/15 05:09 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: chickenlump]
Maxpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By chickenlump
Originally Posted By lolatu

1) In their default forum, the Global Presets are not really usable for me, since repedalling / half pedalling / una corda are all turned off, which I always want to be on, as well as some tweaking to reverb etc. Is there any way to update these presets?


If you tweak your settings, and choose the file button, and save as default multi, your new settings will stay when you open the Kontakt.

One random thing I found was change different Sample Rate. I initially figured my latency would be lower using 44100 (thinking it uses less processing power), but I think the samples are recorded at 96000. If your sound card/driver can process it, then the latency ends up being lower because it doesn't have to down sample the sample in real time.


Not at all, Galaxy is sampled at 44.1KHz; latency decrease you observe is simply because each buffer "lasts less" as you increse the frequency, so for example 64 @48KHz will givo you twice the latency than the same buffer @96Khz but using this frequency will stress more the CPU and I/O, so is not the best choice. Use it at 44.1 with the lowest "glitch free" buffer
_________________________
'Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself' (M. Davis)

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#2389683 - 02/22/15 06:24 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: Maxpiano]
chickenlump Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 70
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By Maxpiano
Originally Posted By chickenlump
Originally Posted By lolatu

1) In their default forum, the Global Presets are not really usable for me, since repedalling / half pedalling / una corda are all turned off, which I always want to be on, as well as some tweaking to reverb etc. Is there any way to update these presets?


If you tweak your settings, and choose the file button, and save as default multi, your new settings will stay when you open the Kontakt.

One random thing I found was change different Sample Rate. I initially figured my latency would be lower using 44100 (thinking it uses less processing power), but I think the samples are recorded at 96000. If your sound card/driver can process it, then the latency ends up being lower because it doesn't have to down sample the sample in real time.


Not at all, Galaxy is sampled at 44.1KHz; latency decrease you observe is simply because each buffer "lasts less" as you increse the frequency, so for example 64 @48KHz will givo you twice the latency than the same buffer @96Khz but using this frequency will stress more the CPU and I/O, so is not the best choice. Use it at 44.1 with the lowest "glitch free" buffer


Thanks for clarifying, so the sample rate doesn't refer to the sample rate of the... well, samples? And it only seems to work for the computer sound card, when the output is changed to a USB sound card, it only allows 44.1?

Anyway, 44.1 may use less CPU, but the latency is too long for me. It was greater than 12 ms, which I didn't notice consciously, but when I was playing fast pieces (e.g. Winter wind etude) my finger brain coordination was lost. I thought i was having a stroke, but it would disappear when I switched back to the on board piano sound. My current setup is 256 polyphony at 96000 seems to give me an (in-computer) latency of less than 5 ms which is completely imperceptible to me.

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#2389694 - 02/22/15 06:56 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By mabraman
Lolatu, I tink JFP, dmd and others already wrote some posts on this matter (vst+CA95/ES7) and how to get the most of it.

Thanks - I'll have to do some searching.

Originally Posted By kapelli
Lolatu, so, finally, which one sounded better and was better to play - Kawai as it is or Galaxy?

I'm somewhat reluctant to make judgements at this stage, other than to present my early impressions for what they're worth, since they'll probably change as I become more familiar with the instrument. I am certainly enjoying the Vintage D at the moment, since like I said, it seems to have better dynamics, as you might expect with 13 layers of sampling compared to Kawai's 4 layers, and there seems to be more range between quiet and loud (i.e. less compression, though Galaxy has compression controls if you want it). The Steinway sound is nice for a change. I'm not particularly bothered by looping since HI-XL has a generous (by historical standards) 4 s or so per note, which is longer than most notes I play.

I think a major factor in how good the instrument sounds in practice is the ease of use of the user interface. It is much more likely you'll get the sound you want if all the controls are laid out in front of you. The Kawai requires diving into several different sub-menus, pressing buttons on the small screen, and once saved in a registration, you can't even see what the settings are or change them. All the "Basic" and "Virtual Technician" settings are carried from one sound to the next, while the Effects and Reverb settings aren't. The Vintage D has all the parameters the CA95 has plus more, including useful ones like Tone Colour (adjusts sample layer trigger velocities without affecting volume), and graphical velocity curves. So I would say it's much easier to get a good sounds with the Vintage D.

It also feels good to play. It sounds very clear over the speakers and I get the same sort of vibration feedback as I do with the internal sounds. Whereas I don't get the same vibration and clarity with Pianoteq. I'd definitely recommend it, though it's possible there are other options just as good.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2389698 - 02/22/15 07:01 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: chickenlump]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By chickenlump
If you tweak your settings, and choose the file button, and save as default multi, your new settings will stay when you open the Kontakt.

Thanks. But (call me greedy), I'd like to be able to save a number of different set-ups.

Does anyone use the "Quick-Load Catalog" (which I've just discovered) for this?
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2389700 - 02/22/15 07:05 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: PhJ.]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By PhJ.
Congratz on your purchase & thanks for your impressions on the Galaxy D.
If you have the opportunity to post an mp3, I would be interested to hear how it sounds (with pedaling, ..).

Well there are a lot of demos already available on the Galaxy site, and on Youtube. I'm not sure what some more would add. What I might do is to record the output over the CA95's speakers and post a comparison of internal sounds, Vintage D, and Pianoteq. It can never be completely fair because it may be possible to set up the sounds in a better way than I know how (and in the case of Pianoteq, I only have the Stage version, and there's a lot more you can change in the Standard and Pro versions). Another problem is that I don't have a working microphone so I'd have to use my mobile phone...
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2389703 - 02/22/15 07:16 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10070
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
lolatu, thank you for posting your experiences so far. It's interesting that you preferred the CA95's 'Normal' touch curve to that of 'Heavy'.

What are the main specifications of your PC, by the way?

Regarding this point:

Originally Posted By lolatu
...compared to Kawai's 4 layers


May I ask why you believe the number of velocity layers to be 4? Please note that I'm not suggesting that you are either correct or incorrect, however this information is not listed in any owner's manuals or brochures, partly because we encourage customers to judge an instrument based on how it plays and sounds, rather than purely on technical specifications.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2389749 - 02/22/15 09:36 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
McBuster Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 306
Loc: St Paul Minnesota USA
Lolatu

A question. Do you know of anyone who generates the sound from an external computer but instead of using external speakers or line-in, uses external amps and then bypasses the internal amps and goes directly to the internal speakers/soundboard?
_________________________
Jon ...

Kawai CA95
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer

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#2389767 - 02/22/15 10:56 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: Kawai James]
CyberGene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 756
Loc: Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By Kawai James
It's interesting that you preferred the CA95's 'Normal' touch curve to that of 'Heavy


I find it it interesting too. Although I'd say "interesting" is an euphemism for sad. On all Kawai pianos I've owned I had to use "heavy" touch when playing the internal piano sound since "normal" is way too jumpy in velocities and thus unrealistic. However if I control external sounds through MIDI or playing other internal sounds such as electric pianos, "normal" is OK. And it seems I am not alone judging by this and many other threads.

So, isn't it time for Kawai engineers to reconsider what is a "normal" touch for the main piano sound? smile I guess it won't be difficult for a real piano manufacturer as Kawai to not only figure out a good default piano touch but why not even a more elaborate measurement of their real piano velocity-to-sound-dynamic map by the use of sensors in a real piano that would then translate to an ultra realistic touch curve in digital pianos smile
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/evgenykumanov
Current DP: Kawai ES7
Previous DP-s: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100

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#2389806 - 02/23/15 02:50 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: chickenlump]
Maxpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By chickenlump
Originally Posted By Maxpiano
Originally Posted By chickenlump
Originally Posted By lolatu

1) In their default forum, the Global Presets are not really usable for me, since repedalling / half pedalling / una corda are all turned off, which I always want to be on, as well as some tweaking to reverb etc. Is there any way to update these presets?


If you tweak your settings, and choose the file button, and save as default multi, your new settings will stay when you open the Kontakt.

One random thing I found was change different Sample Rate. I initially figured my latency would be lower using 44100 (thinking it uses less processing power), but I think the samples are recorded at 96000. If your sound card/driver can process it, then the latency ends up being lower because it doesn't have to down sample the sample in real time.


Not at all, Galaxy is sampled at 44.1KHz; latency decrease you observe is simply because each buffer "lasts less" as you increse the frequency, so for example 64 @48KHz will givo you twice the latency than the same buffer @96Khz but using this frequency will stress more the CPU and I/O, so is not the best choice. Use it at 44.1 with the lowest "glitch free" buffer


Thanks for clarifying, so the sample rate doesn't refer to the sample rate of the... well, samples? And it only seems to work for the computer sound card, when the output is changed to a USB sound card, it only allows 44.1?

Anyway, 44.1 may use less CPU, but the latency is too long for me. It was greater than 12 ms, which I didn't notice consciously, but when I was playing fast pieces (e.g. Winter wind etude) my finger brain coordination was lost. I thought i was having a stroke, but it would disappear when I switched back to the on board piano sound. My current setup is 256 polyphony at 96000 seems to give me an (in-computer) latency of less than 5 ms which is completely imperceptible to me.


You can reduce latency @44.1Khz as well by reducing the audio buffer to 128 or less in Kontakt's settings, which is the correct way to achieve it.
_________________________
'Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself' (M. Davis)

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#2389811 - 02/23/15 03:20 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: McBuster]
mabraman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 464
Loc: Valencia, Spain
Originally Posted By McBuster
Lolatu

A question. Do you know of anyone who generates the sound from an external computer but instead of using external speakers or line-in, uses external amps and then bypasses the internal amps and goes directly to the internal speakers/soundboard?


This is what I read long time ago, I thought it was both JFP and dmd who did it.
Anyway...to do so, I'd sell the CA95 and buy a VPC1. 3k is way too expensive for a controler!
_________________________
Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200

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#2389837 - 02/23/15 05:53 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: CyberGene]
PhJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 181
Loc: Brussels
Originally Posted By CyberGene

I find it it interesting too. Although I'd say "interesting" is an euphemism for sad. On all Kawai pianos I've owned I had to use "heavy" touch when playing the internal piano sound since "normal" is way too jumpy in velocities and thus unrealistic.

'Sad' might be a bit strong, as long as we have the options smile
I started with 'Heavy' too since I agree with your assessment of the 'Normal' curve, but changed it to 'user'.
I found the calibration tool works very well (on the MP7).

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#2389852 - 02/23/15 06:35 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: Kawai James]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 42
Loc: Germany
I'd like to second the question to lolatu about the source for 4 layers of recording in Kawai DP.

There seems to be come confusion about number of layers sampled. For example, here Roland sales reps say that Roland has 4 layers, everyone else less.

But then you go to the Roland website (or was it youtube) and they state that everyone has 4 and they have "more".
_________________________
Kawai CN-35. The daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now we'll see who learns faster ;-)

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#2389856 - 02/23/15 07:09 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: Hendrik42]
lophiomys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 228
Loc: Austria, EU
It is more that Kawai James would be able to answer this question, as only he has access to first hand information in this respect.

A second option would be to look at the CA65 recordings in dewster's DPBSD Project thread.
DPBSD Project: How visual analsis is done.



Edited by lophiomys (02/23/15 08:19 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#2389865 - 02/23/15 08:00 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 42
Loc: Germany
Ah, ok. The DPBSD Project is probably the source for the 4 layer statement then. Thanks for that, I did not recall.
_________________________
Kawai CN-35. The daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now we'll see who learns faster ;-)

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#2389894 - 02/23/15 09:23 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
PhJ. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 181
Loc: Brussels
As for the Galaxy, I listened to the demos on the official website. It sure has a beautiful tone ! (and the una corda samples are great, as in the beginning of the Gymnopedie)
What I'm curious about is how the sympathetic resonance & the (re-)pedaling sound.
There are some artifacts in the same Gymnopedie coming along with the chord on each 2d beat for example (though it's very light and I'm listening with headphones).

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#2389908 - 02/23/15 09:57 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: Hendrik42]
MossySF Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/07/14
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By Hendrik42
Ah, ok. The DPBSD Project is probably the source for the 4 layer statement then. Thanks for that, I did not recall.


I looked through the DPBSD combo review text file and the CA65/CA95 are not listed. (I suppose it could be somewhere in the 1000 messages but I have no interest to search through that.) The MP10 is listed though and has the following note:

Quote:
- Visual evidence of possible layer switching @ velocity = 30,46,64,74,102.


I interpret this as 6 layers detected and since the CA65/CA95 use the same sound engine as the MP11, we should expect at least 6 layers then.

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#2389928 - 02/23/15 10:45 AM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: lolatu]
Hendrik42 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 42
Loc: Germany
MP10 is UPHI and MP11 is HI-XL, with probably more layers. The 4 layer statement is probably for PHI.

HI < HI 88 keys < PHI < UPHI < HI-XL or so it goes.
_________________________
Kawai CN-35. The daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now we'll see who learns faster ;-)

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#2390098 - 02/23/15 06:55 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: Kawai James]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By Kawai James
lolatu, thank you for posting your experiences so far. It's interesting that you preferred the CA95's 'Normal' touch curve to that of 'Heavy'.

I found Normal better for Vintage D's default "Basic Grand" preset, but I prefer Heavy for the CA95's internal sounds (like CyberGene!).

I wonder if the response curve should be a feature of a sound engine, rather than a keyboard? That seems to make more sense to me, in which case the Virtual Technician setting on the DP shouldn't affect the MIDI velocities sent (as it does currently). OTOH some sound modules don't have their own built-in curve editors, so you might expect a master keyboard to handle this. Maybe make it a firmware option? Or I would settle for a one-touch External Sound Source button, which turned off Local Control and switched the velocity curve.

(Slightly Off topic, how long it will be until Kawai have audio over USB on their DPs, like the Roland FA-08 does? It would make a lot of sense, since external audio interfaces and cabling could be eliminated... the DP already has the required DACs and ports, and digital I/O would eliminate noise and have less latency.)

Quote:
What are the main specifications of your PC, by the way?

Intel Core Duo 2.8 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 250 GB SSD. The CPU is from 2009 and so is a bit slow by modern standards, which may be why I've had some glitches. I should probably upgrade, but I'd need a whole new motherboard, and to be honest spending money on PC hardware doesn't give me any pleasure. Having to re-install and configure all my software again also puts me off (having just done that 6 months ago when I bought the SSD - what a hassle!).

Quote:
Regarding this point:

Originally Posted By lolatu
...compared to Kawai's 4 layers


May I ask why you believe the number of velocity layers to be 4? Please note that I'm not suggesting that you are either correct or incorrect, however this information is not listed in any owner's manuals or brochures, partly because we encourage customers to judge an instrument based on how it plays and sounds, rather than purely on technical specifications.

I'm not sure actually. I probably read it on this forum, or extrapolated from some generalization. It may be incorrect. I have had a close listen and I can hear at least 4 velocity layers, though their transitions sound blended rather than sudden. The Roland sound is said to be based on 4 layers, as are most Yamahas apparently. If it is based on 6 layers, I think Kawai should say so because it would be a strong selling point (it would certainly impress me more than most of the other arm-wavy and unverifiable elements of the marketing materials).

Perhaps it's also not specified because then people would start asking questions about some of the other sounds... Modern Piano, for example, I'm fairly certain there's only 1 layer, and it's in mono.

What I would really like to see on the Kawai DPs is the end of flash ROM on chips soldered to the main board, and instead all the sounds stored an (accessible) SSD, so that Kawai and third parties can sell us new sounds without wasting the rest of the piano. They're plenty fast enough (typically 0.1 ms seek time, with 250 MB/s bandwidth, which is enough for up to 1500 simultaneous CD-quality streams, and run cooly with no moving parts or noise), and a 30 GB generic model (enough for 6 soundsets of Vintage D quality) goes for less than £20 retail, delivered. Perhaps alternatively have an "internal" SSD containing the default sounds, with several free piano-sound "slots" available, which could be updated over USB, or by inserting an SD card. My phone can take a 128 GB SD card... just saying. Again, a potential big selling point.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2390099 - 02/23/15 06:59 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: McBuster]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 649
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By McBuster
A question. Do you know of anyone who generates the sound from an external computer but instead of using external speakers or line-in, uses external amps and then bypasses the internal amps and goes directly to the internal speakers/soundboard?

No. Not sure why you'd want to do that. The internal amps seem plenty powerful enough. Maybe this would be for the purpose of adding effects?
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810

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#2390172 - 02/23/15 10:42 PM Re: Galaxy Vintage D: impressions using with CA95, and questions [Re: PhJ.]
johnlewisgrant Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 555
Loc: canada
Originally Posted By PhJ.
As for the Galaxy, I listened to the demos on the official website. It sure has a beautiful tone ! (and the una corda samples are great, as in the beginning of the Gymnopedie)
What I'm curious about is how the sympathetic resonance & the (re-)pedaling sound.
There are some artifacts in the same Gymnopedie coming along with the chord on each 2d beat for example (though it's very light and I'm listening with headphones).



Personally, I've always found that the piano once purchased never sounds like the demos online!

In any case, piano vsts FOR PLAYING and piano vsts for LISTENING TO are completely different kettles of fish.

For playing, something like PIANOTEQ is always going to "sound" better than most vsts: that's because it's extremely efficient and has super-low latency.

But for LISTENING purposes, the best piano vst is one that you won't get much fun out of playing. It sounds SUPER realistic if you're talking about sounding like a "real" piano recording. But it's definitely not great "under the fingers."

Typically, these pianos are called "scoring" vsts. I use one at my Bach site. I would never recommend it for live playing though!


Edited by johnlewisgrant (02/23/15 10:42 PM)
_________________________
My Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier (24 Preludes & Fugues) Project:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP5BZzcdRkq21rE5SoYC33Nxltdam8TPG

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