Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards "Real Enough"? | Part 4

New demo in the ongoing "real enough" series, where the aim is to shatter preconceptions about the limitations of digital instruments. As ever, no real pianos were used in the video.



Details of the all-digital setup are in the original thread

Previous demos are listed below:

Real Enough 1
Real Enough 2
Real Enough 3

Comments welcome from believers and skeptics alike...but the real test would be to show the video to someone who has no idea that the instrument might be digital, and therefore isn't actively listening for it. Could they tell?

More to come.

"No real pianos were harmed in the making of this video"

I can't tell the difference.
Maybe my ears aren't the same as they used to be but it's real enough for me.

On the other hand, I can tell that my own two digitals are not that good.
They start to sound artificial to me...

Very nice performance, bravo!


I'm not quite sure what you mean here, belief that a sampled piano played solo can fool a person? I'm 100% certain that I can be fooled and that I indeed have been with various recordings. Samplers are just too convenient in the studio.

I suppose that's why I'm so adamant about DP sound quality, I want my DP to completely fool me, and not exist in some uncanny valley just because the manufacturer is too lazy / cheap to do the playback right.


I think the real test for the entire package is to take an experienced pianist and sit them down at a variety of things that may be either DPs or APs via double blind and see how well they score. Kind of a Touring Test for DPs.

How can we compare a recorded perforance, even if we have a very good amp and speakers (or headphones)?

IMHO it doesn't make sense.

A real test would be to listen directly the player and the pianos in real conditions.
I don't even try to listen theses demos, they couldn't be significant

Now that's a test I'd want front row seats for—great idea (The Turing test idea for pianists)

No. More very fine playing and a lovely countermelody singing through from 1:55 (would you be tempted to do any post-editing in MIDI or can you invariably come up with what sounds to me like a note-perfect performance?).

I'm still fairly sure it's easier for a sample to convince with these big two-handed chordy compositions than when there's less going on. I expect to confirm those suspicions when I offer up a couple of relatively simple but shaky turns in the upcoming Schumann recital which I've no doubt will neither sound (nor look!) anything like as 'real' as yours.

Still enjoying the Garritan though...

OK Phil - you`ve convinced us. We need a few days to sort out that music you`re playing, and then bring our offerings to the Alter of Hysterics to appease the God of Eternal Laughter . . .

i have this quote from the original thread.

Not how it sounds, but how it feels when playing as i think that is the real difference betweenn an acoustic an a digital.

I think the whole idea is that we're judging this against other youtube recordings.

Yes - benchmark is other YouTube performances. The setup I'm using is not designed for live performance.

As to note perfect or otherwise...I'm not owning up to how many takes were needed for all this Part of the joy of a digital setup in my own studio is that I can record as many takes whenever I like. This particular Rachmaninoff is notoriously tough to play cleanly, and the blooper reel is every bit as ugly as you might imagine.

peterws, I've read your comment a few times, can't figure out what you mean?

I sympathise. I usually end up splicing. At least I feel it's still 'me'...up to a point. Double cameras are a good idea. You're fortunate in having something worth showing from more than one angle

Double camera is essential - every performance would have to be a single take otherwise.

Second camera is actually just an iPhone.

I believe he's being snide, but I'm not 100% sure.

It works well. I've seen some youtube videos where the second camera is so sub-par - well below iphone quality - it comes across as quite a strong effect, almost like the fly on the wall.

Don't think he's being snide. I think he's being complimentary but using a method of which only he himself is privy (but, of course, I could be completely mistaken).

As always, very nice playing! I admire your pianism and must admit I am envy of you

On the other hand I am not sure what the exact purpose of your threads is. I am pretty convinced that if we are listening to recorded demos of almost any GB-sized library, we would be fooled into thinking it is a recording of real acoustic piano for the simple reason it is an arranged set of tiny bits that are in fact recordings of a real acoustic piano. I suspect you are rather showing off Which isn't neccesserily a bad thing and many great musicians should be proud of their achievements and seeking to broaden their audience. However I am not really sure this is the best sub-forum to do so. In any case I think what you have achieved is nothing short of spectacular, so congratulations, it's really a good job!

Now, I must agree with Dewster. Here we are mostly (if not solely) players' rather than listeners' forum. In this sense, we should be convinced that a digital solution is good by testing it ourselves, sitting at the piano blindfolded and comparing it with the real thing side by side, rather than just listening to a recording.

Thank you Philip.

So I understand that it can make sense for videos or audio listeners, but not from the point of view hear of a piano player

This definitely exceeds the "real enough" standard, and, indeed, approaches the "better than acoustic" threshold.

A performance this authentic-sounding would have been utterly unthinkable ten years ago.

I'm a believer!

Philip is being quite savvy sharing with us... what better place to develop an audience for his youtube channel than "Piano World ® Home of the World Famous Piano Forums!".

Similarly, Piano-man Chuck knows where his audience hangs out.

Keep sharing, guys. We all enjoy some good piano playing, and the fact it's on a digital piano with a digital library makes it all the more interesting - at least for this crowd.

--- the Garritan sounds particularly good on this piece. And I like where you've set the reverb on this recording - if you've changed it at all, it suits it well. You know what I would love to hear... you have all the hardware you need. Could you get your hand on Pianoteq 5 and maybe Ravenscroft 275. I know that would get you a few more repeat plays on the YouTube for sure!

I have both Garritan and Ravenscroft. These libraries aren't too far apart to my ears, a margin that narrows as the material gets bigger, busier and chordier; both are richly harmonic.

I know Philip mentioned having used Ivory II American - that would be a comparison more worth making, I think. That and pianoteq.