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Joined: Feb 2015
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Hello everyone,
I have wanted to learn how to play an instrument for many years, and finally have decided to learn to play the piano. I am looking around for a first instrument and for a teacher, and was hoping that the community here could help me with a few questions.
First, a little bit about me and my goals. I am 25 and have never played an instrument, but music is a big part of my life and I listen to a lot of jazz and blues. It has always bugged me that I really have no understanding of what I am listening to on any deep level. For example, I know that jazz was heavily influenced by the blues, but I would love to learn about how they are related in terms of music theory. My main goals for playing the piano include learning about music theory (which I know almost nothing about), and learning to play jazz piano. I would like to develop a repertoire of jazz standards and learn as much as I can about improvisation. I would also like to learn about the blues, but at this time I don't have an interest in classical music or other genres.
1) How early on should I have a teacher that knows something about jazz? I imagine I will spend a long time learning basic fundamentals, but I have no idea how early on the skill sets may diverge for different genres.
2) I am planning on getting the Kawai ES100 as first piano. Is there any reason that I would not want to use a digital piano or this particular piano as my first? To me not having to worry about tuning and being able to play with headphones are major factors. Most of my practice hours on week days are in the evening and I would like to be able to practice into the night without worrying about disturbing the neighbors. I am hoping to spend around 1,000 USD or less on a setup so that I can invest more money into lessons. At that price range this seems to be the best option.....
3) Should I try to get a 3 pedal setup, or will just the sustain pedal be sufficient for a while? It looks to me like if I want to get a 3 pedal setup, then it is necessary to get one of the Kawai furniture style stands because the 3 pedals come on a long piece of wood that stretches from end to end. If the extra 2 pedals won't be necessary for some time, I may opt for a simpler stand, maybe the T or Z style. Recommendations here would be appreciated. I am afraid of getting something wobbly.
4) How do height adjustments work for piano? Is the piano itself a relatively standard height and you adjust the seating to an appropriate level? At 6'5", I am relatively tall and I am not sure if this might be a factor in my choice of stand and bench. Recommendations for seating would also be appreciated.
Thank you in advance for your help! I am very excited to learn from this community as I embark on this long journey!
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,115
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1) How early on should I have a teacher that knows something about jazz? I imagine I will spend a long time learning basic fundamentals, but I have no idea how early on the skill sets may diverge for different genres. 3-5 years of classical, but not neglecting ear training, theory, scales. Then go for a jazz teacher.
2) I am planning on getting the Kawai ES100 as first piano. Is there any reason that I would not want to use a digital piano or this particular piano as my first? To me not having to worry about tuning and being able to play with headphones are major factors. Most of my practice hours on week days are in the evening and I would like to be able to practice into the night without worrying about disturbing the neighbors. I am hoping to spend around 1,000 USD or less on a setup so that I can invest more money into lessons. At that price range this seems to be the best option.....
Digitals are fine. Can't comment on the model.
3) Should I try to get a 3 pedal setup, or will just the sustain pedal be sufficient for a while? It looks to me like if I want to get a 3 pedal setup, then it is necessary to get one of the Kawai furniture style stands because the 3 pedals come on a long piece of wood that stretches from end to end. If the extra 2 pedals won't be necessary for some time, I may opt for a simpler stand, maybe the T or Z style. Recommendations here would be appreciated. I am afraid of getting something wobbly.
Never heard of a sostenuto pedal on a digital, but, saying such things exist, it's not so important for jazz. Your sustain pedal will get a huge amount of use. The other two, not so essential except for extremely advanced pianists, particularly in the classical tradition.
4) How do height adjustments work for piano? Is the piano itself a relatively standard height and you adjust the seating to an appropriate level? At 6'5", I am relatively tall and I am not sure if this might be a factor in my choice of stand and bench. Recommendations for seating would also be appreciated.
There are adjustable benches, but these may put your body lower than ideal at the piano. You might have to consider physically raising the piano a bit.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10,512
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10,512 |
Hello everyone,
I have wanted to learn how to play an instrument for many years, and finally have decided to learn to play the piano. I am looking around for a first instrument and for a teacher, and was hoping that the community here could help me with a few questions.
First, a little bit about me and my goals. I am 25 and have never played an instrument, but music is a big part of my life and I listen to a lot of jazz and blues. It has always bugged me that I really have no understanding of what I am listening to on any deep level. For example, I know that jazz was heavily influenced by the blues, but I would love to learn about how they are related in terms of music theory. My main goals for playing the piano include learning about music theory (which I know almost nothing about), and learning to play jazz piano. I would like to develop a repertoire of jazz standards and learn as much as I can about improvisation. I would also like to learn about the blues, but at this time I don't have an interest in classical music or other genres.
1) How early on should I have a teacher that knows something about jazz? I imagine I will spend a long time learning basic fundamentals, but I have no idea how early on the skill sets may diverge for different genres.
2) I am planning on getting the Kawai ES100 as first piano. Is there any reason that I would not want to use a digital piano or this particular piano as my first? To me not having to worry about tuning and being able to play with headphones are major factors. Most of my practice hours on week days are in the evening and I would like to be able to practice into the night without worrying about disturbing the neighbors. I am hoping to spend around 1,000 USD or less on a setup so that I can invest more money into lessons. At that price range this seems to be the best option.....
3) Should I try to get a 3 pedal setup, or will just the sustain pedal be sufficient for a while? It looks to me like if I want to get a 3 pedal setup, then it is necessary to get one of the Kawai furniture style stands because the 3 pedals come on a long piece of wood that stretches from end to end. If the extra 2 pedals won't be necessary for some time, I may opt for a simpler stand, maybe the T or Z style. Recommendations here would be appreciated. I am afraid of getting something wobbly.
4) How do height adjustments work for piano? Is the piano itself a relatively standard height and you adjust the seating to an appropriate level? At 6'5", I am relatively tall and I am not sure if this might be a factor in my choice of stand and bench. Recommendations for seating would also be appreciated.
Thank you in advance for your help! I am very excited to learn from this community as I embark on this long journey! There are a few who play stuff on the monthly piano bars who started as adults. A lot older than you in some cases, and they sound terrific. At 6`5" a small console piano might be unsuitable. Especially with a triple pedal; they are so narrow the pedal is not ergonomically positioned. You`ll need to sit at them first. Another thing. The music rest needs to be also at a decent height. Some of the smaller, and all of the stage pianos have poor stands wrt to this. . . .best o` luck, man!
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgetiny.jpg) "
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870 |
Welcome on PW!
1) How early on should I have a teacher that knows something about jazz? I imagine I will spend a long time learning basic fundamentals, but I have no idea how early on the skill sets may diverge for different genres.
If it's not too much hassle, I would start with jazz right away. Particularly improvization is not something in the usual classic training and you probably should be working on that from the start.
2) I am planning on getting the Kawai ES100 as first piano. Is there any reason that I would not want to use a digital piano or this particular piano as my first? To me not having to worry about tuning and being able to play with headphones are major factors. Most of my practice hours on week days are in the evening and I would like to be able to practice into the night without worrying about disturbing the neighbors. I am hoping to spend around 1,000 USD or less on a setup so that I can invest more money into lessons. At that price range this seems to be the best option.....
For jazz that might work out just fine but you have to compare it yourself. Many people here switch to acoustic later and never go back to DP. But yes for night practice you may need it. For classic I believe a DP does not cut it. BTW I also practice after working, on acoustic between 7pm and 9pm roughly. 2 hours is plenty and neighbours seem fine.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,032
4000 Post Club Member
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4000 Post Club Member
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Posts: 4,032 |
1) How early on should I have a teacher that knows something about jazz? I imagine I will spend a long time learning basic fundamentals, but I have no idea how early on the skill sets may diverge for different genres.
3-5 years of classical, but not neglecting ear training, theory, scales. Then go for a jazz teacher.
If it's not too much hassle, I would start with jazz right away. Particularly improvization is not something in the usual classic training and you probably should be working on that from the start.
I've been wondering about that too. I also want to eventually learn some jazz and I heard both of these opinions: that you should first study classical for a couple of years, and that you can start some basic jazz right away. I realize that jazz is complex but maybe there are things that could benefit even beginners? And how exactly do you study improvisation anyway?
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 185
Full Member
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Full Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 185 |
Hi Alex. I started getting back into piano in December. I took lessons for a couple of years, but that was sixty years ago. I have always dreamed of being able to improvise and play jazz and blues, so my goals are right in line with yours. (I just have a less time in which to do it!) I just had my second lesson yesterday (spent a couple of months fiddling around with Alfred's book and a few others). I feel so very fortunate in the teacher I found. She has an Associate of the Royal Conservatory Diploma in classical piano performance and a BA in jazz music specializing in voice. We will be working on developing my ear, sight reading and theory, and of course, scales, chords, and arpeggios. The two pieces she suggested for me to start on are bluesy and I am really excited.
I would suggest that you look for a someone to teach you what you want to learn, I.e. Jazz and Blues. I think it would be hard to keep up the motivation required for several years of learning something you are not really interested in before you can get to what interests you. I would think most jazz teachers would have some classical background and I expect to be playing some Bach which is great, but I get really excited for example by Oscar Peterson's "jazz Exercises, Minuets, Études, and Pieces for Piano". I guess what I am saying is that I would not expect a classical teacher to be up for teaching me jazz, but I would expect a jazz teacher to be able to teach me classical to the extent that it is helpful for learning jazz. Have a look at youtube of people playing those jazz exercises... I find them so inspiring!
Good luck to you and have fun!
April
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,563
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BTW I also practice after working, on acoustic between 7pm and 9pm roughly. 2 hours is plenty and neighbours seem fine.
There is probably a big difference (for the poor neighbours) in listening to you (who play extremely well) practicing for a couple of hours, and listening to somebody like me (a raw beginner) hacking away at a few bars over and over for the same two hours 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.piano.christrup.net/PIANO/FORUM/ORD.jpg) XXXVII-XXXVIII I pray, that tomorrow I may strive to be a little better than I am today - and, on behalf of everybody else, I give thanks for headphones.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
5000 Post Club Member
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5000 Post Club Member
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Posts: 5,870 |
I probably started at the same point  And I'm still playing the same pieces for months before i move on. And I hardly ever play a piece from start to end ... But yes everyone has to make his own decision here.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,563
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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One of these days a neighbour is gonna knock on your door and tell you "I think you missed a note in bar x"... they will know it as well as you LOL
XXXVII-XXXVIII I pray, that tomorrow I may strive to be a little better than I am today - and, on behalf of everybody else, I give thanks for headphones.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,129
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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learning to play jazz piano. I would like to develop a repertoire of jazz standards and learn as much as I can about improvisation. I would also like to learn about the blues, but at this time I don't have an interest in classical music or other genres.
classical music is a useful learning tool for a couple of reason. First "music" (jazz or blues or pop or else in the 20th century ) didn't come out of the blue and knowing the evolution from renaissance to baroque to classical period to romantic makes easy to understand the evolution of harmony and what is used in jazz (unless you like to learn the style in a sealed can ) Second, the techniques that you might use in jazz have roots in classical music and while there aren't too many competent jazz teachers, you can find plenty of classical one and later transfer the knowledge and the physical aspect (speed, accuracy, hand eye coordination ) if you can tolerate that kind of music.
1) How early on should I have a teacher that knows something about jazz? I imagine I will spend a long time learning basic fundamentals, but I have no idea how early on the skill sets may diverge for different genres.
I forgot the crystal ball in the other room... but it does depend on your expectations, your skills and your commitment. that said, I would try to get a teacher experienced in both because, especially at the beginning you might feel discouraged by learning classical and especially a lot of Bach.
2) I am planning on getting the Kawai ES100 as first piano. Is there any reason that I would not want to use a digital piano or this particular piano as my first? To me not having to worry about tuning and being able to play with headphones are major factors. Most of my practice hours on week days are in the evening and I would like to be able to practice into the night without worrying about disturbing the neighbors. I am hoping to spend around 1,000 USD or less on a setup so that I can invest more money into lessons. At that price range this seems to be the best option.....
A digital piano is still better than no piano at all and most digital are better than comparable price upright pianos.
3) Should I try to get a 3 pedal setup, or will just the sustain pedal be sufficient for a while? It looks to me like if I want to get a 3 pedal setup, then it is necessary to get one of the Kawai furniture style stands because the 3 pedals come on a long piece of wood that stretches from end to end. If the extra 2 pedals won't be necessary for some time, I may opt for a simpler stand, maybe the T or Z style. Recommendations here would be appreciated. I am afraid of getting something wobbly.
mine is console style and I use only the sustain pedal (the keyboard doesn't move for the una corda pedal so it's pretty unrealistic) and i never used the middle pedal. on the grand I use both pedals but not the middle one.
4) How do height adjustments work for piano? Is the piano itself a relatively standard height and you adjust the seating to an appropriate level? At 6'5", I am relatively tall and I am not sure if this might be a factor in my choice of stand and bench. Recommendations for seating would also be appreciated.
most digital piano will come with a fixed bench. the suggestion is, especially if you plan to spend some serious time there, get the best bench you can afford from the beginning... it's going to cost you anywhere between 500 to 1000$ ( yes, just for the bench ) but I believe it's worth. ( or if you do as I do and not as I say you use a wood chair that doesn't wobble from crate and barrel, and for me is just perfect, but it might not be for you ).
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Joined: Dec 2012
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. . .
2) I am planning on getting the Kawai ES100 as first piano. Is there any reason that I would not want to use a digital piano or this particular piano as my first?
I've played the ES100, and like it. Consensus opinion in the "Digital Pianos" forum is that it's one of the best under-$1000 digital pianos.
3) Should I try to get a 3 pedal setup, or will just the sustain pedal be sufficient for a while? It looks to me like if I want to get a 3 pedal setup, then it is necessary to get one of the Kawai furniture style stands because the 3 pedals come on a long piece of wood that stretches from end to end. If the extra 2 pedals won't be necessary for some time, I may opt for a simpler stand, maybe the T or Z style. Recommendations here would be appreciated. I am afraid of getting something wobbly.
My guess is that most jazz players don't use the una corda ("soft") or sostenuto pedal. But everybody uses the "damper" or "sustain" pedal. On inexpensive DP's, damper pedals are usually (but not always) "on/off" switches. On better DP's, the damper pedal offers "continuous half-pedalling" -- there are lots of steps between "on" and "off". That's a useful (some would say "necessary") feature. See which sustain pedal the ES100 supports. If you have to get a 3-pedal bar to get continuous half-pedalling, do it. I have a Casio PX-350 with a triple pedal, mounted on a long bar. The bar is tied to the bottom of my X-stand. The setup works fine.
4) How do height adjustments work for piano? Is the piano itself a relatively standard height and you adjust the seating to an appropriate level? At 6'5", I am relatively tall and I am not sure if this might be a factor in my choice of stand and bench. Recommendations for seating would also be appreciated.
"Standard" height, to the top of the white keys, is around 28.5 inches. Acoustic pianos vary a bit, but that's a good number to go by. For "standard proper posture", when you're sitting at the piano, your elbows should be just a bit higher than the keytops. I don't know how you're built, but I suggest that you find a piano store, sit on a bench, and use a tape measure (or sidle over to the keys) to see if you need a higher bench, or a lower one. I use a "drum throne" -- essentially an adjustable-height piano stool. Height adjusts, the padding (on the good ones) is quite good, and they're cheaper than adjustable piano benches. As with most things, quality increases with price. The problem with X-stands is getting enough knee room, from your hips to the X members. Depending on your build, it might work, or not. If not, try a Z-stand. Both kinds have height adjustments. With an adjustable bench, and an adjustable-height stand, you should be able to find a combination that works for you. The goal is to sit at the piano, with your elbows near your side, and have your forearms horizontal when your fingers are on the keys. Have fun shopping - - . Charles
. Charles
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PX-350 / Roland Gaia / Pianoteq
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Joined: Feb 2015
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OP
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BTW I also practice after working, on acoustic between 7pm and 9pm roughly. 2 hours is plenty and neighbours seem fine.
There is probably a big difference (for the poor neighbours) in listening to you (who play extremely well) practicing for a couple of hours, and listening to somebody like me (a raw beginner) hacking away at a few bars over and over for the same two hours I couldn't agree more with this (and I love your signature)! If I am self conscious about annoying everyone around me I am not going to get in much practice time. Also, I am a graduate student and in two years I will likely be moving a few states away, which could be a pain to do with an acoustic piano. I think that I am pretty much set on a digital at this point. I found this piano academy nearby that has 4 teachers, 2 of whom have extensive experience in Jazz. I will likely take weekly lessons there but I have to talk to them and get some more information; I am awaiting a call back from them. It is not that I don't enjoy classical music, I just spend all of my time exploring jazz and blues because they evoke a much stronger emotional response than anything else I have ever listened to. I think I will let the director at that school know my goals and let them direct my studies as they see fit. I'm sure there is classical music out there that I would love, but I find the vastness of the genre a bit daunting, I wouldn't know where to begin. With limited time, I just am always digging deeper into the genres I am familiar with. I think that I will be going shopping tomorrow. I will probably be getting the ES100 with a sustain pedal, adjustable stand and bench/stool, and a good set of headphones. I recently discovered that one of my friends at school has been playing since 1st grade and he agreed to accompany me and help to pick some gear. Looking forward to it, should be an exciting day! Thank you all VERY much for your input; it is greatly appreciated!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 85
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1. Being able to improvise at jazz takes a certain level of piano technique which might take a few years to develop. However, its never too early to start listening to jazz, and slowly learning about how jazz fits into the other topics you are studying such as harmony, scales, etc... But yeah, at least a few years unless you're a genius 2. Definitely recommend an upright acoustic piano, your progress will be much faster and you will definitely develop better touch and feel for the instrument. This is fairly important actually. 3. If you can't afford an upright piano, get a digital that at least has a sustain pedal.
Last edited by Tony Romo; 03/02/15 01:56 AM.
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