Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
107 registered (A Guy, 36251, Adypiano, Agfinguy, 34 invisible), 1274 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2391878 - Today at 03:03 AM Kawai's, Virtual Technician and "piano rumble"
Bellicapelli Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 18
Loc: Tuscany Italy
Hello, was wondering about what can be done, and how far it is possible to tweak the tone of kawai digital pianos using virtual technician, especially regarding cn25, cn35,cs4 and ca15.

The aspects which interest me the most are cleanness and pureness of sound which, to me, in most digitals are too exaggerated, at least in the basic setting you find them set up when you turn them on at the shop, or in youtube demos: nice but a tad too "clinic".

Most acoustics i love have more of a "muddier" sound ( a part from an occasional slight detune, which is not desirable), as well as a huuuge general resonance, sort of a "rumble" building up while you play, an effect so strong that if the player can't keep it under control, with proper pedaling technique, it grows so loud that it messes up the whole performane: you actually have to work to keep it "clean".

This "roar and rumble" resonance seems to be missing on the digitals i tried: no matter how much you exaggerate pedaling, they stay clean and polished, no sound-mess can be obtained, nor do you have to practice to avoid it.

What possibilities does one have to adjust this by playing with the vt effects of the pianos above, in trying to livening the piano's voice up, to the point where you have to tame it?

I would imagine to work on reverb, string resonance, but don't know all the possibilities offered, and do they effectively alter the voice, adding a bit of the desired "growl", or is this, as i suspect, a post sound emission, organic acoustic effect which simply can't be obtained by sampling just individual keys, as it is done on dp's? Do i need soundboard and ample grand cabinet for this?

Thank you


Edited by Bellicapelli (Today at 03:44 AM)
_________________________
Korg 01 + motif es7

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
Kawai Superb Stage Piano and Controller

Click Here


#2391899 - Today at 04:41 AM Re: Kawai's, Virtual Technician and "piano rumble" [Re: Bellicapelli]
Beemer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 355
Loc: Scotland
Why do you expect some of those models you mentioned to have audio power anywhere near an acoustic piano?

The sound build up and decay of an acoustic, which is always different each time even if the same notes are played, is there because it is the summation of air pressure waves and mechanical resonances radiating throughout the body of the instrument even after the strings have been dampened.

Ian
_________________________
I'm all keyed up

Top
#2391913 - Today at 05:45 AM Re: Kawai's, Virtual Technician and "piano rumble" [Re: Bellicapelli]
R_B Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 611
Originally Posted By Bellicapelli
Hello, was wondering about what can be done, and how far it is possible to tweak the tone of kawai digital pianos using virtual technician, especially regarding cn25, cn35,cs4 and ca15.

The aspects which interest me the most are cleanness and pureness of sound which, to me, in most digitals are too exaggerated, at least in the basic setting you find them set up when you turn them on at the shop, or in youtube demos: nice but a tad too "clinic".

Most acoustics i love have more of a "muddier" sound ( a part from an occasional slight detune, which is not desirable), as well as a huuuge general resonance, sort of a "rumble" building up while you play, an effect so strong that if the player can't keep it under control, with proper pedaling technique, it grows so loud that it messes up the whole performane: you actually have to work to keep it "clean".

This "roar and rumble" resonance seems to be missing on the digitals i tried: no matter how much you exaggerate pedaling, they stay clean and polished, no sound-mess can be obtained, nor do you have to practice to avoid it.

What possibilities does one have to adjust this by playing with the vt effects of the pianos above, in trying to livening the piano's voice up, to the point where you have to tame it?

I would imagine to work on reverb, string resonance, but don't know all the possibilities offered, and do they effectively alter the voice, adding a bit of the desired "growl", or is this, as i suspect, a post sound emission, organic acoustic effect which simply can't be obtained by sampling just individual keys, as it is done on dp's? Do i need soundboard and ample grand cabinet for this?

Thank you


You are referring to an artifact of physical pianos that needs "technique" to avoid (in excess).
Asking for it to be put back in so that your technique would then need improvement ...seems a little like asking for the smell of manure to be gently wafted into a horseless carriage so that you could deodorize it away.

I have to ask; Why would you WANT that ?


Edited by R_B (Today at 05:46 AM)

Top
#2391928 - 8 minutes 29 seconds ago Re: Kawai's, Virtual Technician and "piano rumble" [Re: R_B]
Bellicapelli Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 18
Loc: Tuscany Italy
Why should one want it?

Well, i guess short answer is "because acoustics have it, and if a digital has to mimic, they should have it too". wink

Long answer is, this effect is not to be compared to manure's smell, it actually is desirable on an acoustic. This general resonance, the capability to "sing" and generate harmony *beyond* the single string you hit, thru resonance from soundboard and cabinet together, is what eventually makes the best part of the voice and tone difference from a piano to another, even if they have same action, strings, hammers.

As long as you can control it, it adds to the beauty of sound. And here's my problem: being accustomed to digital instruments since years now, i can learn to perform in the most clean and nuanced way on the digital, but as soon as i play it on an acoustic, after a few notes it goes "boom", i somehow lost ability to control of a beautiful thing, because i don't have it available on my digital equipment.

What i don't know, thus my question, is if today, state of the art sampling tecnology is able to somehow record ( or mimic via modeling) this effect. I know i'm asking a whole lot, since we are talking about an effect which arises while you play piano as an organic whole, while sampling is supposwdly done key by key individually.
_________________________
Korg 01 + motif es7

Top
#2391929 - 1 minute 44 seconds ago Re: Kawai's, Virtual Technician and "piano rumble" [Re: Beemer]
Bellicapelli Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 18
Loc: Tuscany Italy
Yes, i know. But if it somehow can be sampled, it could be reproduced. Even my hifi has no spruce soundboard or wooden cabinet, but it can reproduce it nicely.

Problem is how do you record it, if it actually generates and grows *after* the keystroke which is sampled?

And here my ignkrance about modern digital pianos kicks in. Simply don't know state of the art.
_________________________
Korg 01 + motif es7

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
The February 2015 Issue of our Free Piano News Newsletter is out now! FREE Piano Newsletter
--------------------
The best thing I've learned on Piano World....
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
(ad) Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Online Lessons
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
USB Audio interface for digital piano recording
by WeeFeeri
02/28/15 07:08 AM
Gabriela Montero - Improvisation - "Nosferatu" film score
by pv88
02/28/15 05:35 AM
Airport piano
by PhilipInChina
02/28/15 03:22 AM
How long to wait for the right student?
by piano_friend
02/28/15 03:09 AM
Kawai's, Virtual Technician and "piano rumble"
by Bellicapelli
02/28/15 03:03 AM
Forum Stats
78,328 Registered Members
43 Forums
161,899 Topics
2,377,706 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission