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Hello, was wondering about what can be done, and how far it is possible to tweak the tone of kawai digital pianos using virtual technician, especially regarding cn25, cn35,cs4 and ca15.

The aspects which interest me the most are cleanness and pureness of sound which, to me, in most digitals are too exaggerated, at least in the basic setting you find them set up when you turn them on at the shop, or in youtube demos: nice but a tad too "clinic".

Most acoustics i love have more of a "muddier" sound ( a part from an occasional slight detune, which is not desirable), as well as a huuuge general resonance, sort of a "rumble" building up while you play, an effect so strong that if the player can't keep it under control, with proper pedaling technique, it grows so loud that it messes up the whole performane: you actually have to work to keep it "clean".

This "roar and rumble" resonance seems to be missing on the digitals i tried: no matter how much you exaggerate pedaling, they stay clean and polished, no sound-mess can be obtained, nor do you have to practice to avoid it.

What possibilities does one have to adjust this by playing with the vt effects of the pianos above, in trying to livening the piano's voice up, to the point where you have to tame it?

I would imagine to work on reverb, string resonance, but don't know all the possibilities offered, and do they effectively alter the voice, adding a bit of the desired "growl", or is this, as i suspect, a post sound emission, organic acoustic effect which simply can't be obtained by sampling just individual keys, as it is done on dp's? Do i need soundboard and ample grand cabinet for this?

Thank you

Problem is how do you record it, if it actually generates and grows *after* the keystroke which is sampled?

On most DPs these kinds of resonance are likely DSP effects rather than sampled.

Not sure about that. The piano sounds in the Nord Piano Library definitely have sampled damper resonances (to include the damper resonance samples makes the main difference between their different sizes for the same piano sound - "S" versions have none, "M" versions have some, "L" versions have all; "XL" versions also avoid stretching). I would assume that the higher end keyboards of Y, K and R also include sampled resonances but I may be wrong of course.

Hello, was wondering about what can be done, and how far it is possible to tweak the tone of kawai digital pianos using virtual technician, especially regarding cn25, cn35,cs4 and ca15.

The aspects which interest me the most are cleanness and pureness of sound which, to me, in most digitals are too exaggerated, at least in the basic setting you find them set up when you turn them on at the shop, or in youtube demos: nice but a tad too "clinic".

Most acoustics i love have more of a "muddier" sound ( a part from an occasional slight detune, which is not desirable), as well as a huuuge general resonance, sort of a "rumble" building up while you play, an effect so strong that if the player can't keep it under control, with proper pedaling technique, it grows so loud that it messes up the whole performane: you actually have to work to keep it "clean".

This "roar and rumble" resonance seems to be missing on the digitals i tried: no matter how much you exaggerate pedaling, they stay clean and polished, no sound-mess can be obtained, nor do you have to practice to avoid it.

What possibilities does one have to adjust this by playing with the vt effects of the pianos above, in trying to livening the piano's voice up, to the point where you have to tame it?

I would imagine to work on reverb, string resonance, but don't know all the possibilities offered, and do they effectively alter the voice, adding a bit of the desired "growl", or is this, as i suspect, a post sound emission, organic acoustic effect which simply can't be obtained by sampling just individual keys, as it is done on dp's? Do i need soundboard and ample grand cabinet for this?

Thank you

Why should one want it?

Well, i guess short answer is "because acoustics have it, and if a digital has to mimic, they should have it too".

Long answer is, this effect is not to be compared to manure's smell, it actually is desirable on an acoustic. This general resonance, the capability to "sing" and generate harmony *beyond* the single string you hit, thru resonance from soundboard and cabinet together, is what eventually makes the best part of the voice and tone difference from a piano to another, even if they have same action, strings, hammers.

As long as you can control it, it adds to the beauty of sound. And here's my problem: being accustomed to digital instruments since years now, i can learn to perform in the most clean and nuanced way on the digital, but as soon as i play it on an acoustic, after a few notes it goes "boom", i somehow lost ability to control of a beautiful thing, because i don't have it available on my digital equipment.

What i don't know, thus my question, is if today, state of the art sampling tecnology is able to somehow record ( or mimic via modeling) this effect. I know i'm asking a whole lot, since we are talking about an effect which arises while you play piano as an organic whole, while sampling is supposwdly done key by key individually.

I know exactly what you mean, but the only way to get better at your technique in handling this is to practice on a good acoustic. This is where digitals fall flat, unfortunately. They've come a long way, but they are not the same as acoustic.

If you are performing on acoustic, you will need to practice on an acoustic. This is why it's best to have both if you can manage it.

While others here will be better able to provide some answers for you, I just wanted t comment that you have described here what I had in mind in another post when I said that after playing DPs all the time, I can find it difficult to "control" an acoustic piano. I couldn't really find the words to describe what I meant regarding "control", but you have done so very well here.

Tony

Well, if you tell me this while playing the one piano with a completely modelled from scratch tone - no sampling limits at all - then i get a bit discouraged.

There's another doubt i have. From some answers and comments i read, i'm suspecting this general and organic resonance is something not every digital pianist is used to / wants to hear / would be ready to pay for.

Might be that digital pianos have been around for so much time now, they're becoming an instrument of their own, and while acoustics are progressively rarer, a good part of the digital pianists are not even making the direct comparison to the acoustics anymore.

If this is true, the mutation would be complete and had generated a whole new instrument.

I like the sound of piano, not sure I'd change that. But I would like to see more basic ergonomic work done regarding the key actions, rather than the blind copying of existing AP weighting and quirks. Try to find something that most would agree is easier to control and less injurious to play.

But I would like to see more basic ergonomic work done regarding the key actions, rather than the blind copying of existing AP weighting and quirks. Try to find something that most would agree is easier to control and less injurious to play.