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This thinking is so opposite to the way I approach music, my first instinct is to say give up your quest and it is rare I would ever say that. But the logical prognosis of some of your statements is that you would never be happy. From what you say with banjo and guitar, it would be unlikely playing organ would ever feel fulfilling either, no matter what you think now. Sometimes getting to a destination no matter how exotic you thought it would be is just to find it is the same or similar to where you came from.

However your statements could also come from the insecurity of someone who just needs a good guide. I hope you find one but you would need to revise your expectations of what that means. No one gets good at piano/organ just by having a good teacher. It requires thousands of hours invested none of which will seem like you are following some maximum stategy. Most of those hours will seem repetitive and even futile at times so it takes a certain mindset to cope. The only way to cope is to really love music, to love what you are achieving even when that is not much in the scheme of things and take it day by day.

As to hypnotherapy, my understanding is that any benefits are short term and would therefore need repeated treatments. I would save your money and spend it on a good teacher. The only benefit of hypnotism I can think of would be to calm your worries and help you focus during practice. Not only would a teacher help in those areas but there are other methods to achieve those results and I would encourage you to do a little more research.

Organ will be much more fulfilling because I love the music that flows from the organ. it is also an instrument that can be played in solidarity or with other musicians the problem, is that i am always playing by myself and the banjo being a treble instrument it needs other musicians. also the Church don't want banjo in the choir there is a lack of organists and i want to fill in that position. Also the banjo can't shake a 6 story building but an organ can. and it also can be so ethereal or haunting. IT can go from a little flute in the far distance to a growling powerful explosive passage. So with that said the organ will fulfill my musical prowess or my personality as the organ is much more my personality than the banjo. I got into the banjo as i loved John Denver and heard it on his live album and love the way it looked and so I learned it. But now it is more of a vovelty instrument and it is not taken serious in most music circles and the shows like Hee Haw and the bubba wearing bib overalls slapping his knee whilst playing has done much damage to the image and tired of fighting that as well as trying to enjoy a treble only instrument is not giving me fulfillment it once did. So I got to do this or die trying. I also paid my dues of hours and hours of practice and I would HOPE that my 30 plus years playing banjo will make it much more attainable to play the piano/organ. I paid my dues like everyone else and need to break down the wall that is stopping me. and also when I practice and get no where I get really really angry and so that is another problem i need to fix I get really really mad at myself. I am mad at the fact I am in the position I am in and need to get out of it. It's my life and I can't be anyone else and I shouldn't have to like or accept the fact I can't play and the mere fact that i can't play has gotten me into many laments to God who seems to not give a blank. I feel like Job when it comes to the piano and organ.

I am afraid it doesn't work that way, sure you have the theory grounding of the banjo and a musical pedigree but so have many people here on the forum. It does not seem to help that much and in fact may be a hindrance if there is a sense of entitlement, and/or an unwillingness to face becoming a complete beginner again.

We have no knowledge of what you can play, how long have you played, how long did you stop etc, etc, and although that is not relevant to the original post we are heading into old territory of, "are there any short cuts", "what is the optimum practice schedule" and "how good can I get" debate. "None", "no such thing" and "complete 5,000 hours of good practice and you will start to get an indication" are my answers.

If the person who said that nasty comment to you made you not want to play the piano and you really want to play the piano, then you might benefit from some therapy or hypnotherapy.

But therapy won't make you good at piano. It takes work.

A common theme in these forums is how much work we learners put into playing piano.

Another common theme in these forums, however, is that piano is easier when you've got folks who are rooting for you. The most important person to be rooting for you is yourself and it sounds like this voice from the past still has a grip on you.

Your best money spent will by far be on a piano teacher, but if you struggle to get started--and you really want to put in the painstaking work--then it can be good to have a mental coach to help you get started.

5000 hours I better master it!!!! I am very hard on myself and will do it. As per entitlement no, no one is entitled but rather it all boils down to two things God giving it to you in the womb or now. that is the way I feel. I will try the hypnotherapist to at the very least to get rid of the block and to help where it can. I never meant to lead on that the therapist will make me Richard Elliott or Virgil Fox when I walk out of that door. The ONLY way that can happen is if God willed it. No What I want is, to get rid of the barriers that I have had. and give me a fair shot at this. I also pray constantly to Christ to give me a break and will continue to, to my grave. BUT at the sametime I will practice and all that. but without God or something getting rid of this barrier or block, I can practice 50,000 hours and get nowhere and that is NOT acceptable. SO. I will try everything I can to make it faster. Richard Elliot has to practice everyday and what makes me feel I don't. I never said that I expect to leave that therapist and then get home sit down to my huge organ and make it talk,, no no no. what expect will rather hope for is, that my practice will be much more efficient. Our subconscious, which is our soul I believe anyway, remembers everything we encounter and I believe that the lucky ones that have it naturally, have no blocks by which comes from their conscious I think kids learn faster cause they don't have any conception how long it takes they just do it. The learning system that is stodgy and been around far too long is outdated just like 60 year old medicine, 60 years ago there was no treatment for cancer or 80 years ago no treatment for kidney failure. today we have many advancements in medicine. We still have many decades to go with learning. Anyway I will do it the traditional way whilst trying leading edge learning styles. I will try erverything as the only thing that matters is my playing as soon as possible as i don't have the years like a 5 year old does, God better get busy too. as he has his work cut out. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I am not expecting from any therapist to walk out the door and go to the Church and wow the music director and land an organ job.. I do expect this darn block/barrier to be blasted away. SO the 5000 hours of boring repetition nose to the grindstone will yield results. It is kinda like a vacation. Say I have a month's vacation stored up from work and I want to go to Germany. I drive to NY from Missouri then take a ship and 8 days later I am in England, then take a two day train to Germany then have to do it all over again for another 10 days back, that is 20 days out of the month. all I get is 10- 11 days of bliss. That is why we have jet airliners so that we can GET THERE and have lots more time to ENJOY. I hate journeys. I'd rather spend the last years of my life PLAYING. So anyways I am not disagreeing with you all. Just need to find the most efficient way and now so no more wasted time. I hope God helps too. Anyways time for me to go to bed and pray like no other and hope the barrier is gone till tomorrow have a great night. Mike.

I am sorry to say this Mike but reading through this thread I can only come to one conclusion. You have a mental problem. Go find help for this.

Please don't put yourself in to the arms of hypnotherapists and the sorts. They are liars who are in it for the money.
Since your a Christian, ask your vicar what he thinks of hypnotherapists. I can't imagine he's for it..

If you want to learn how to play the organ, get a teacher, and put in the practice time.

If you, personally, feel that you have a big mental block that is preventing you moving forward in the way you want to in life, then by all means see someone with the skills to help you overcome that.
Do your research, and make sure that whoever you see has the right training and a good reputation, and is part of a professional body with a decent code of ethics and practice. Hypnotherapy isn't the route I would choose, but I'm not you. Just choose carefully.

Yes I have, when I was about 6 or 7 years old, I used to take piano lessons and also would “make stuff up". I had a parent who was an officer at a public organization that had a piano.
I would often play a lesson or just play by ear, when I was there waiting after school, usually getting a compliment.
Once a member heard me, and said somewhat roughly.. “sounds like you make that up.”
I wasn’t used to the frank attitude she had and sort of felt silly , maybe blushed, but I stopped playing at the piano in that place.
I continued piano lessons for a several months.. and then quit, but quitting had nothing to do with the comment.
As a child I didn’t get that "block" feeling, but I know, at least I think I know what you’re feeling.

I’ve felt that as an adult with other things, and it is as if a boulder needs moved before starting.. as if starting a project has become somewhat of a moral issue for one to start or not start.

I think musicians “make things up “ to be creative.
Call it musical brainstorm-ing so to speak.
So , that was pretty creative for you, and unwittingly he gave you quite a compliment.
In hypnotism terms that is called “reframing” the original incident.

In my case, I totally forgot about the incident and picked up piano again when I was about 47. I'm now 52.

It’s not “good” to wait to forget ….. But maybe, just pick up piano again,
I’m sure somehow that boulder will move, if or when you start to do a “work around” on it’s mental presence.
There is self hypnosis too, you might want to check that out in a library.....
As for me. I got a lot of boulders to move…..
I think I might re try this myself, it does work if you let it .
..


One more thing.. Faith is a deeply personal aspect of living, and I don’t comment on how one pursues belief.


But as far as piano, a person does have to be somewhat realistic at a given moment of what can be played in a given time……
So with that in mind, as far as piano goes… move that block…..

Oh, I beg to differ... No matter what the instrument is, your conception can make or break it.

http://youtu.be/sZvCgfC7QTY

If you want to play the piano, play the piano.

Forrest

P.s. It isn't easy.

Yep, I beg to differ too ... a banjo helped pay for this one-of-a-kind houseboat. I'd guess Bluegrass is probably more popular over here than boogie woogie or classical:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/-RaFApVP0zU

Great stuff! A no-stress life style.
Thanks for the link.
I played the 5-string banjo in my youth and Bluegrass guitar too.
We had a band with banjo,fiddle,mandolin,guitar,and vocals.
Fun days.

Hey RKP, "Deep Elam" on the boards here and PianoMagic was a bluegrass musician too ... from NJ. Turned into a jazz pianist in Vegas. Interesting paths we take. You're blessed ... I've seen a lot of bluegrass gigs out there, can't remember a one when they weren't having fun.

What a bad reputation hypnotherapy has, people here doesn’t realize what a useful tool is for therapists. It's a great amplifier in the healing process.

If you want to avoid hypnosis never watch a movie, or even publicity. Never go to a concert, don’t make love, don’t drive and don’t have a good conversation with a friend. Don’t play piano, don’t go to the supermarket, etc. Because these are all altered states and we all experience them in some form or another on a daily basis.

Said that, I don’t recommend you to go to the hypnotherapist for the moment.

You want to accelerate your practice by doing that, but I see a lot of aspects in your talk that makes me think you need to change the way you approach to piano/organ to make this changes possible. But you are trying to get that result indirectly with a “shortcut”. It’s not going to work as you want.

First thing, if you want to learn, and learn fast, you need to love what you do. Mind follows the heart effortless. I you aren’t interested enough in your practice you need to force it. And fighting against you is a waste of energy.

Something become a passion not because you wish it, but because you do it. It’s not the feeling that makes it grow, it’s the action you take.

One important thing you have to change: you need to learn to enjoy journeys, because studying an instrument is all about that. You need to understand you have to do so many repetitions without any result before you see some improvement. Become familiar with this little level of frustration because is part of the deal. Learn to become comfortable with the uncomfortable feeling of not knowing the pieces yet, in order to avoid rushing. How do you do that? Loving the music on the top of this process.

You feel you don’t have control about the learning process and you want to control it with things that get out of your hand. It’s better if you start to see and feel where you are now and walk from there.

So you say you practice and you get nowhere (that’s the block to me) to go out from that believe you need to learn to trust yourself and the process of learning.

It’s possible you are practicing and not doing enough progress if you force or use your body in a very inefficient way. If that’s the case and you have determination you will see that in your learning journey and find a way to solve it, but that’s something completely different to a mental block.

If you are very hard on yourself that would interfere with the learning process because the emotions go in the opposite direction you want to go. You need to learn to be very gentle with yourself, when learning something new.

Then your practice will be more efficient!!

If you take this actions and don’t improve, then go to do some hypnotherapy.

Here is a video of one of the best hypnotherapist. But, he’s not showing anything, he’s just talking about journeys and have a mission in life, and maybe can be useful for you to listen to what he sais.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkrLOlx30c8

I love that video, Karaba, and it puts in to words something I've been learning/discovering for about, oh, 15 or 20 years. It's way cool, and fun!

Cathy

Thanks, Rerun!
Yes,those were fun times.
Filled with enthusiasm and life was less complicated.

I got off here as Wimpiano said I have a mental problem.I wanted to reflect before posting as it offended me. I want to address this. I went to seminary and had the battery of mental testing that lasted over 6 hours and took many many many tests and passed with flying colors and was accepted as a seminarian for the Diocese of Jefferson City. I was let go because I talked to the Bishop in Lexington and told the vocation director and he let me go. (found out you don't do that!!!) the hard way. So you not liking my approach and my desire to maximize my practice and you disagree like politicians you resort to name calling. Yes my mental problem as you point out is not mental but spiritual the "mental " problem is that i am NOT playing the organ!!!and I feel that the typical way of learning is not conducive to my way of learning. Like an apple computer vs a windows pc. both are very good but run much differently to do the same thing. as per human minds not one mind is the same as another. Some people learn with wrote memory (most kids in school and most people) I learn according to tests by spatial and abstract learning I will search high and low to get the organ in my hands and as fast as practically as possible . I also want to state for the last time that I am not looking for that magical way to walk out of that office and play like Virgil Fox. but if I can find the right teacher and the right person to help me the right learning methods that fits me. I can evade thousands of hours of non productive practice rather find the right thousands of hours of the RIGHT practice for ME. to the other posters after Wimpiano thank you for your kinds words and I will stay on this site. to whoever PMed me, Sorry for offending you with what bad word I used don't remember that i posted a bad word. but I apologize. and finally I WILL play and I will overcome this block. thank you for your support. Mike.

Mike, I had no intention to offend you but when I read stories about the past holding you back from just playing, there is a problem.
If you don't agree with me that's fine, I am not you, I hardly know you. You just raise questions:

-Why can a comment of someone many years ago have so much impact that you are looking for therapy?
-Why can't you just start playing by taking lessons from a teacher but look for a hypnotherapist instead?
-Why are you offended when I say mental problem? I am not saying you're crazy or ill. Just that there is a mental problem, you describe it is a block, that's mental, that's psychology..

Playing the piano is fun, especially learning to play the piano, but it is a long and difficult road. If you are not up for that, go ahead, see a hypnotherapist, if you believe in it it will probably have some positive effect (placebo).

If you feel offended by my previous statements or the above, my apologies, I am trying to help, not to offend.

Hey Mike, I'd have to agree with WP here. Even if the hypnotist, piano teacher, girl friend, Virgil Fox and the bishop told you the same thing as Wimpiano, maybe the best thing to do is chuckle and tell them that you've wondered the same thing too then ask them why they think that. You never know, they may tell you nothing more than you haven't figured out how to have some fun in your life.

Agreed

Sorry I took it the wrong way. I do have a mental block problem yeah that is true. Thanks for your help and pray that I can get past this. Thanks to much Mike.