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#2393483 - 03/03/15 08:50 PM Short announcement: Sauter pianos
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Short announcement:

We have now discontinued our relationship with C.Sauter.

Reason for this is that we have been importing these fine pianos directly from factory for 25 years, something that is no longer available to us [ or others..]

Apparently this appears to affect also at least one more long established [ and well respected..] Sauter dealer in U.S.

The decision by company appears to have been a 'business decision' appointing a middle man looking after distribution.

Wether or not this will amount to increasing sales or adds to the popularity of the brand, of course needs to be seen.

From our own experience, the added cost for these high quality but already pricey pianos no longer makes Sauter a highly competitive choice on market - speaking strictly for our own market here near Vancouver,B.C.

We regret this development but express our thanks to company wishing them well.Unfortunately we will be no longer be there to assist anybody in the service of the pianos nor will we be able to address any warranty related questions/concerns in the future.

For those interested, great buys of existing Sauter stock can be still had by Kassmann Pianos in Berkely,Ca

Thanks all,

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (03/03/15 09:11 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393490 - 03/03/15 09:10 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Catlady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 458
Loc: Arlington,VA
Norbert, please explain a little bit.
I have always felt that there would be more Sauter dealers here in the US if they didn't have to deal with that a$$hat of a rep. When I was a dealer, I wouldn't talk to anyone but Ulrich or his secretary. Has this changed, or is there a new (even worse) rep?
_________________________
Cathy Harl - former piano dealer and tech.
Currently making and designing jewelry.

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#2393494 - 03/03/15 09:23 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1302
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By Norbert
Unfortunately we will be no longer be there to assist anybody in the service of the pianos nor will we be able to address any warranty related questions/concerns in the future.

Norbert


Greetings,
Does this mean that previously bought Sauters no longer have a warranty that is honored by the seller?

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#2393497 - 03/03/15 09:28 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Catlady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 458
Loc: Arlington,VA
I'm sure the FACTORY would never leave a customer "high and dry", but the rep is a different story. If a dealer can't get support from their rep, everything turns to worms. Especially if he is the new "distributor".


Edited by Catlady (03/03/15 09:29 PM)
_________________________
Cathy Harl - former piano dealer and tech.
Currently making and designing jewelry.

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#2393499 - 03/03/15 09:36 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Does this mean that previously bought Sauters no longer have a warranty that is honored by the seller?


Sellers don't underwrite warranties - manufacturers do.

Luckily an almost non-existing concern with Sauter pianos.

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393504 - 03/03/15 09:47 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
PhilipInChina Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 1364
Loc: China
Should be some good bargains going, then, if you are prepared to undertake any "warranty" work on your own dollar?
_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

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#2393506 - 03/03/15 09:58 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
backto_study_piano Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 573
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By Norbert
Quote:
Does this mean that previously bought Sauters no longer have a warranty that is honored by the seller?


Sellers don't underwrite warranties - manufacturers do.

Luckily an almost non-existing concern with Sauter pianos.

Norbert


Some here in Australia do - in particular 2 European piano brands where the manufacturer only gives a 5 yr warranty, in one case the distributor, the other the dealer gives an additional 5 yr warranty.
_________________________
Alan from Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert - she's 7'4" long and ebony) & 2 Allen Organs [long story - the first is for sale] - MDS312 and CF-15.

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#2393518 - 03/03/15 11:04 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Markarian Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 650
Loc: Seattle Area
Their pianos are already way overpriced, especially when compared to Shigeru and Estonia. I loved the Omega I played, but Norbert is right. They're already pricey. Nice work, Sauter. You and Petrof let us know how this works out for ya.
_________________________
2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Korg Kross 61

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#2393525 - 03/03/15 11:14 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 722
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
I'm sorry, Norbert. You obviously were fond of Sauter pianos. It's a shame that Sauter couldn't see the wisdom in retaining highly-regarded dealers like you and Kassman.

Is Vienna International the Sauter distributor, or have Sauter switched "reps"?

I'm curious - what high-end marque will you pick up to replace Sauter?

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#2393527 - 03/03/15 11:34 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Almaviva]
Markarian Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 650
Loc: Seattle Area
Originally Posted By Almaviva
I'm sorry, Norbert. You obviously were fond of Sauter pianos. It's a shame that Sauter couldn't see the wisdom in retaining highly-regarded dealers like you and Kassman.

Is Vienna International the Sauter distributor, or have Sauter switched "reps"?

I'm curious - what high-end marque will you pick up to replace Sauter?


I dunno, it seems like Estonia can give Sauter a run for its money.
_________________________
2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Korg Kross 61

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#2393539 - Yesterday at 12:13 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I'm sorry, Norbert. You obviously were fond of Sauter pianos. It's a shame that Sauter couldn't see the wisdom in retaining highly-regarded dealers like you and Kassman.


Thank you - appreciating your kind comment!

Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for the new national representative to introduce himself to the board here?

Your chance Sir! wow

This perhaps instead of writing nasty letters to us threatening 'legal action' if not immediately removing the name "Sauter" from website...

Quote:
I dunno, it seems like Estonia can give Sauter a run for its money.


This is [was] also true. We didn't advertise it but 90% of those who tested both pianos clearly preferred Estonia. Especially as a 6' Sauter grand easily buys a 6'10 Estonia [with change] and a 7'Omega a 9' Estonia concert grand.

Sales figures accordingly, spoke loud and clear supporting the experience shoppers often had. Below is one, there were a good number of others.

Read carefully, this involved an Estonia 13 years ago...

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

Which was perhaps deemed "our fault"? frown

Hoping the new middle man distributor will turn things around in a great hurry.

Best wishes!

Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 12:45 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393547 - Yesterday at 12:44 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Markarian Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 650
Loc: Seattle Area
I know Northwest Pianos here in Seattle is our local Sauter dealer, and that the owner, Basilios Strmec, is a big wheel for importing Hailuns to the US. Nice pianos, to be sure. Still haven't had a chance to even see an Estonia in person. I think they might be mythical.
_________________________
2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Korg Kross 61

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#2393643 - Yesterday at 09:20 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Markarian]
malkin Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2926
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By Markarian
...Still haven't had a chance to even see an Estonia in person...


This was my experience for quite a while. We were even planning to look for them while traveling.

Then, my husband happened to make a call just as one showed up at our local dealer and all around good guy.

Quote:

I think they might be mythical.


I still think that. It's like having a unicorn in my living room.


_________________________
Ladies and Gentlemen: This is not a competition, merely an exhibition. No wagering please.

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#2393664 - Yesterday at 10:02 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Markarian]
Burnside Piano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/14
Posts: 41
Loc: Franklin TN
Estonias are uncommon, but fortunately not mythical. I have a client with one. It tunes beautifully, and the bass is remarkable for the size of the piano. Wish she'd have it tuned more than once a year; apparently it holds extremely well, at least to her ear.
_________________________
Kent Burnside, RPT
Franklin TN 37064
615.430.0653


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#2393683 - Yesterday at 10:57 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 1083
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Let me make sure I understand. Did Sauter drop all of it's dealers or are individual dealers opting out?

Kurt
_________________________
One who does what the Friend wants done
will never need a friend.

Rumi

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#2393693 - Yesterday at 11:17 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Guapo Gabacho Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 475
Loc: Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Maybe we can make some liebfraumilch whine from these sour grapes.
_________________________
'86 Baldwin SF-10

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#2393694 - Yesterday at 11:18 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
We were 'dropped'.

This at a time when we were putting in an order for several grands. Of course after 25 years this didn't feel 'good'.

The new distributor happens to be the distributor for Hailun and Petrof pianos. We had earlier discontinued with Hailun.

The guy since tried to have some of his own flock adopt the Sauter line. Thinking he succeeded with perhaps one.

Someone in factory must have listened: I know it wasn't Ulrich.

We refused to deal with this new middle man buying our pianos through him. Remember didn't do this for 25 years.

We simply couldn't - we had always sold the pianos for best we could. The market demanded that.

Guess that was it.

For those who like to put a needle into this,let me make one thing perfectly clear: please listen in Guapo:

We have no 'sour grapes' with Sauter or Sauter company. They make a fantastic product, a product that has unfortunately never found serious market penetration on this continent. We knew this from the beginning and tried our best. Perhaps the new distributor is trying to change this: we wish him the best. Our customers for the piano were always highly appreciative. We are a small dealer serving a select client base. To simply discontinue us [overnight..] and another U.S. dealer who has been Sauter's longest and by far best dealer in America, is something that may not quite turn out the way it was intended.

As said, we are [far] more successful with another make anyways and are wishing company the best.

P.S. I don't drink much wine and if anybody does, he's perfectly free to do so on his own....

Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 11:45 AM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393722 - Yesterday at 11:57 AM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1547
Loc: Danville, California
Wait a minute!

Are you actually saying that both you and Kassman have been dropped as dealers for Sauter?????

Is that what you are saying???

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#2393779 - Yesterday at 02:06 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Almaviva Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 722
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Norbert,

Sauter is a small company. Ulrich Sauter knows you personally. Have you contacted him directly on this matter?

Sauter sales in this country are so small that I can't imagine that they would drop two of their stellar, long-standing dealers.

You and Mr. Kassman have probably already tried contacting Herr Sauter directly, but better safe than sorry.


Edited by Almaviva (Yesterday at 02:07 PM)

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#2393782 - Yesterday at 02:14 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:

Sauter is a small company. Ulrich Sauter knows you personally. Have you contacted him directly on this matter?

Sauter sales in this country are so small that I can't imagine that they would drop two of their stellar, long-standing dealers.

You and Mr. Kassman have probably already tried contacting Herr Sauter directly, but better safe than sorry.



We're not sorry but disappointed.

This was a very unfriendly, "bully-like" take over by someone who has very little experience with this make. And apparently even less success as a retailer for the pianos himself.

I don't know if this guy owns a Sauter himself but I do. And have published recordings on it here before.

His condescending letters to me were proclaimed to be "friendly" - of course the opposite is true. In fact he early on threatened 'legal action' - an unnecessary flexing of muscle...

IMHO not a good start [or finish..] for anything..
Especially involving a long trusted dealer and advocate for Sauter. One of the finest pianos made on planet earth.

There seems to be an internal company dispute over this.
It's been long known that Sauter has 2 owners, not knowing the shares each have. The other owner is called Mr.Hott, an older gent who stays strictly in the background. I met him once and found him a sharp, well educated businessman.

The new distributor must have promised something to Mr.Hott who appeared more experienced with the European market, that we dealers over here could not not possibly fulfill.

Besides, we did not believe that there's room for someone else "in between" to make money. These are very expensive pianos. The market allows only for so much, especially today.

Only the future will show who's right or wrong here.

Again: this would be the perfect moment for the new distributor to introduce himself. Am sincere in wishing him and the Sauter company the very best in future!

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 02:41 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393790 - Yesterday at 02:41 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2916
Loc: western Wisconsin
Just about every piano manufacturer that sells pianos in North America has a distribution network, and someone overseeing that. In some cases, they have multiple layers of distribution representatives, by country, region, etc. Exactly how many are left where dealers are communicating with the factory as the sole source of product distribution? I'm guessing maybe three?
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200 (Blüthner pro-88 on the way!) @ home
NY Steinway A, B @ work
Schimmel 130T, on loan

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#2393794 - Yesterday at 02:49 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Just about every piano manufacturer that sells pianos in North America has a distribution network, and someone overseeing that. In some cases, they have multiple layers of distribution representatives, by country, region, etc. Exactly how many are left where dealers are communicating with the factory as the sole source of product distribution? I'm guessing maybe three?


While this is true, it relates - with few exceptions - to the mass-producers.

Fazioli,Estonia,Grotrian,Bluethner,August Foerster,Sauter, Steingraeber, etc never had middle-men in their distribution - they simply couldn't afford it. Nor could their dealers - or customers!

They also never wanted to do this: most I know were very particular about things. A good thing, was thinking..

Besides these guys make only few pianos with exports traditionally to a good number of different countries and continents. America no longer being the most important..

For example,Sauter has had many of its European dealers for very long time: in Paris alone there are reportedly 4 of them.

There have been efforts by some in the past to represent the whole lot but being fiercely independent and always "having done it alone" it never got anywhere.

The general story usually goes like this: don't worry if you can't sell our piano, someone else in the world will buy it....

Norbert


Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 02:58 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393819 - Yesterday at 03:31 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1636
Hi Norbert,

Sorry your relationship with Sauter has discontinued, but I'm sure you'll manage to find another, or perhaps Estonia will actually start to fill that gap for you, since according to all reports from across the web, they are well on their way to producing tier one quality anyway.

The main tier one European pianos - Bechstein, Blüthner and Fazioli are really very expensive when compared to Sauter (in the UK, because Sauter is still cheaper here than Blüthner or Bechstein - in fact Bechstein is the most expensive of all of them here, even more than Steinway and Fazioli), and Steinway and Bösendorfer are kind of laws unto themselves on the market (again I'm talking about in the UK).

How do you get on with Seiler? I don't know anything about them really.

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#2393822 - Yesterday at 03:37 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Rich D. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1275
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Norbert,
I am very sorry to hear about you losing Sauter. Their grands are great, especially the Omega which is to die for. I know your personal piano is a Sauter upright as well. Hoping maybe there will be a change of heart by the owner and you get to keep the line.

Rich


Edited by Rich D. (Yesterday at 03:37 PM)
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"

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#2393826 - Yesterday at 03:45 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Thanks everybody for your sentiments, appreciated!

Quote:
Steinway and Bösendorfer are kind of laws unto themselves on the market


Thinking most others are as well - or getting there.. ha

P.S. We are indeed very happy with Estonia and will be focusing on this make even more. Hard to know 'how to' - we're buying all that can be bought right now..

Truth be known it's the one pianos that makes perhaps the most sense among premium class on today's market - at least in terms of quality, sound, price and definitely "value".

And it's nice to hear from adoring fans, of course not only ours....

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post2384068

Just delivered same piano to another family who had extensively shopped around before: all one gets is smiles,smiles,smiles.

And don't kid yourself: that girl can play!!



Norbert thumb


Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 04:08 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393833 - Yesterday at 04:10 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1547
Loc: Danville, California
Is that also a 210????

Wow

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#2393836 - Yesterday at 04:16 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14427
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Is that also a 210????


Yes it is the 'new' 6'10 grand

And it costs less than a 6' Sauter Delta....sigh



Norbert



Edited by Norbert (Yesterday at 04:18 PM)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2393841 - Yesterday at 04:39 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: malkin]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1815
Loc: Reseda, California
Originally Posted By malkin
Originally Posted By Markarian
...Still haven't had a chance to even see an Estonia in person...


This was my experience for quite a while. We were even planning to look for them while traveling.

Then, my husband happened to make a call just as one showed up at our local dealer and all around good guy.

Quote:

I think they might be mythical.


I still think that. It's like having a unicorn in my living room.


Interesting -- When I was piano shopping 5 years ago, I saw a few of them. Hollywood Piano had at least two, including a concert grand. (Very nice but way out of my price range.)

I don't recall seeing any Sauters, so I was under the impression that Estonia had a larger installed base than Sauter.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
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#2393845 - Yesterday at 04:41 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: terminaldegree]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3885
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By terminaldegree
Just about every piano manufacturer that sells pianos in North America has a distribution network, and someone overseeing that. In some cases, they have multiple layers of distribution representatives, by country, region, etc. Exactly how many are left where dealers are communicating with the factory as the sole source of product distribution? I'm guessing maybe three?


Sauter is such small fry in the piano world, I'd be surprised if they don't end up making a loss by running a distribution network - at least for the foreseeable future. Unless they are planning to do the whole multiple-lines thing and start distributing pianos made in Asia or Eastern Europe with the "designed by Sauter" label, a la Bechstein/Steinway. In fact that's the only plan that could justify a new arrangement. They simply don't have the volume to justify it as a premium boutique piano maker.

I think they are making a mistake by letting go 2 existing, solid dealers. They could have come to an arrangement where existing dealers stay as they are, and new dealers sign up to the new distribution method. They are killing real, existing sales networks by doing this. No speculative operation should do that.

I think that as piano businesspeople, Sauter make good piano builders....

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#2393947 - Yesterday at 09:38 PM Re: Short announcement: Sauter pianos [Re: Norbert]
aesop Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 07/05/14
Posts: 21
Norbert,

Nothing serious, just cheer up :-) As a dealer it may mean something, but as a piano lover Sauter will still be with you in your life~

A brand with its unique sound and touch cannot be substituted by any other one, especially for those who really know the character of it. My piano has just been tuned up by a very good tech, and it sounds ten times better than the records I made last year. (God knows I'm not exaggerating!) If you PM your e-mail address to me, I can send you some of my recent records. (and will be very pleasant to do so)

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