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Thanks for this Chris, it's really helpful, especially for me as someone who's in the market for an upright (and probably a Yamaha at that) as we speak. I suppose my question though, is given what you've said, is about where the value lies in the higher priced instruments . To use the 121 / 122 cm pianos you quoted as an example, if a B3 is £4k (ish) a YUS1 a little over £ 7K and an SE122 about £10.5k, what does someone get in terms of musical performance for those additional spends ?.

I'm actually looking at the bigger Yamahas, and have tried all of the models of that size (U3, YUS3 and 5, SE132, and SU7). For me, the gap between the U3 and YUS3 wasn't huge, but the YUS5 was a big leap forward from both (which was odd, as the spec sheet suggests that the leap should be from U3 to YUS3). The tone just felt darker and "fuller". It seemed clear to me that the YUS5 was well worth the extra over the U3. On the other hand, the performance gap from the YUS5 to the SU7 didn't seem that much, and certainly nowhere near enough to justify the outlay. But perhaps that's more a statement about my limitations as a pianist than anything. The SE132 felt like a very different animal to any of the others (not better as such, just different), and I was actually quite taken with it.

Sorry for the rambling post (and borderline thread hijack!), I suppose in the context of your comments, it's just a case of trying to get my head around how much of the difference in touch and tone between different instruments is about the difference in quality between the different instruments, and how much is in the prep. After all, there's little point in me potentially laying out £12k (well, probably a bit less than that after negotiating ) or so on an SE132 or £9k on a YUS5, if a £7k U3 is every bit as good if properly prepped.

While I have no doubt Chris knows what he's talking about, this does not appear to be immediately evident by the published company specs of these pianos.

http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/mu..._na/b3_na/?mode=model#tab=product_lineup

Published specs is how I study and have always studied the different pianos on market, to be followed by playing them extensively after. [yes all 88 keys.. ]

It's something that IMHO every buyer should also do.

Any more explanations offered in regards to the apparent spec mystery?

They all seem to be same - at least with regards to hammers and soundboards?

Many thanks,

Norbert

Write down the serial number to be sure that the piano you get is the one you auditioned, not the one that was closest to the back door. ;-)

Hello Jason.

In your search for the best higher priced Yamaha uprights, unfortunately and frustratingly, it's the law of diminishing returns as well as what's in the ear of the beholder. I agree with your findings, and I would recommend the YUS5 over the others, even the SE132 which doesn't have the more functional music desk or Ivorite keys and wood comp. sharps found on the YUS5. (at least in the UK). At the end of the day, it's what turns you on personally that counts and how much time and skill the dealer has in prepping the piano. PS - good news for you, due to the strong GB£, from today Yamaha UK prices now 5% cheaper. I wonder if Yamaha US and Canada will follow suit?

Hello Norbert.

I respect you as a dealer and piano player and I hope I can explain the mysteries you raise regarding Yamaha spec.

I too read manufacturers' published specs and then play the pianos extensively, but in addition to what you personally may do, I unbox, tune and prep them also. Agreed, published specs are useful, but only in as much as that which is published by the manufacturer. (They don't always have time, space, nor desire, to reveal all). However, by tuning and prepping these pianos it gives me the third dimension necessary to fully evaluate a piano's potential and worth. Also, spec may vary a little from country to country, but, as far as this thread is concerned, clobbo, the OP, is debating B3 v U1 v digital. A minor point you raise, maybe B3 and B1 hammers and soundboard are the same in Canada, although they're not the same in Europe. eg, B1 soundboard laminated, B3 solid spruce since 2014. B1 hammers not underfelted or as large as B3, Yamaha Canada website says B3 has FIVE backposts as per the European B3, Yam Canada says B1 has four backposts. Also, the B1 doesn't have the tone collectors as is found in the B3, but I couldn't see a reference to that on the Yamaha Canada website and I don't want to spend too much time over a minor issue, because:

My point, for the OP, clobbo, is that the B3 budget series, has almost all the qualities found in a U1, Professional series, including same strings, frame, backpost design, action and keyboard size and design, ie the B3 is more akin to the U1 Professional series than B1 or B2 budget series. Jason got the point, huge price hikes from B3 to U1 and YUS1 for minimal musical improvements. Sorry if I didn't make this clear in my initial post.

Best wishes.

Chris

Thanks Chris!

Thinking you're always best man to ask these things!

Norbert

Thanks Chris, Norbert, and James. You've all provided a lot of helpful information. Made my choice somewhat easier, but I'm also considering a nice digital now as well. Primarily reason for that is that I can play when my baby daughter (now 9 months) is sleeping. When she's awake, we play

The B3 SG2 Silent Piano adds a whole new dimension to the B3 and is a lot more money... MSRP in the US is more than a U1 ($11873 vs $$10699) and at that price, it's a no brainer - digital all the way.

I'm going to save this thread in the hopes that 3-4 years down the road when my kids are older and when a proper acoustic piano can be considered.

I love the U1, as well, and can totally understand where you're coming from. I was hunting for months on Craigslist and eventually found a gorgeous U1 in walnut, 1983 made in Hamamatsu in the next town over. They were only asking $1500 and reposted it several times because the word "piano" wasn't in the title or anywhere in the listing! So I think people searching for a piano missed it. I was really skeptical but went to see and play it. I opened it up....it was like new. The felts were barely grooved, and only around middle C, lol. The family were moving to FL and no one had played it much since their kids moved out. My tech was stunned. I brought that baby home immediately, it's a fabulous piano!!

You never know what you're going to find. If you want new and have the money, then go for it. But there are a lot of great finds out there, as well. I've played the B3 and it's just like the new U1s to my ears, and I did consider getting one. But the walnut U1 I found has an amazingly rich sound and I just preferred it, especially with that asking price.

Good luck, I hope you find something wonderful and absolutely astonishing!!

PS The practice pedal on the U1 may not be totally silent, but it's a great feature. I'll bet a baby can sleep fine when it's in use.

Exactly, that's what I thought, as well.

PMFJI --

If you're happy with the PX5S built-in sounds, you strictly _need_:

. . . Headphones and/or loudspeaker(s)

. . . Some kind of piano stand.

If the loudspeakers are "powered speakers", they include amplifiers. There are many alternatives, depending on what you want to do, and how much you want to spend, and how good you want the stuff to sound.

You don't need a mixer, unless you want to do more than play piano. They're handy for vocal work. I think the PX5S may have a simple mixer (microphone + piano) built in.

You don't need a computer, unless you want to replace the PX5S piano sounds with something else -- some kind of "virtual piano" that runs on a computer. The PX5S sounds aren't bad; "virtual piano" sounds are better.

My guess is that you won't need a headphone amp with the PX5S -- not with the vast majority of headphones, anyway. Just plug the headphones into the PX5S's "phone" jack.

If you want to go down the digital path, there's lots of information in the Digital Pianos & Synths forum, here.

. Charles