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I just bought a Kawai MP11...
I'd like to route my virtual software piano from my laptop into my MP11 to mix with the internal piano sample. As far as I can discern, there are four (4) or five (5) methods to accomplish this:
1. TRS Cables from my Presonus Audiobox USB to my MP11's "line in";
2. USB (maybe);
3. TRS cables from my MP11's "line out" to the Audiobox's "instrument in" (1/4" or XLR) connectors;
4. MIDI (maybe);
5. Splitter from the Audiobox's "line out" or headphone, via TRS cable, to my Kawai MP11's headphone jack, again via TRS cable.
Does anybody have any experience with this? What method is best? I experienced a "hum" with method #1. I couldn't get #2 to work (maybe a "Host to USB" connection, which the MP11 does not feature, is needed). #3 worked, but with significant signal reduction. I'm short one MIDI cable and the splitter for #4 and #5.
Thanks!
Last edited by Skyscrapersax; 03/11/15 12:15 PM.
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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The only method I know for my DGX is USB - Host into computer from piano; audio lead from laptop headphone socket to "audio in" on piano which is the only line in I`ve got. I use AS104YOU to eliminate latency.
A small amount of hum was stopped by insulating the earth pin on the laptop plug . . .
Results are really good. At least I like to think so . .
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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3. TRS cables from my MP11's "line out" to the Audiobox's "instrument in" (1/4" or XLR) connectors;
4. MIDI (maybe);
I have a Focusrite 2i4. I use #3 for the MP11 sounds, and #4 for Pianoteq. Everything goes out to the monitors from Focusrite so the two can be mixed. When I do mix the sounds, I set the Pianoteq volume and then adjust the MP11 with the sliders. At least this is how I do it. There are no latency issues.
Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq / Garritan CFX
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. -Willy Wonka
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I would say option #1 is ideal (and a fantastic feature of the MP11). I don't know if your audio interface has a ground lift switch, but you might need to use it. I have a Radial USB Pro to output audio from my laptop, which feeds into the MP11. I did have to use the Radial's ground lift to take it from nasty hum to absolute silence.
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There is no ground lift switch on my Audiobox USB.
The ground lift switch on my MP11 is set to "on." I suppose that is not sufficient.
I'll Google Audiobox USB and hum. I really don't want to spend another $200+ for another interface unless I have to! Maybe there's a workaround from that end of things...
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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I assume the Focusrite is roughly equivalent to the Presonus Audiobox USB....
Which do you use for #3 - 1/4" or XLR?
I'm pretty brain-dead when it comes to MIDI. Do you need two MIDI cables, or just one? If so, which jacks do you use? Focusrite OUT to MP11 IN?
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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That's what I tried first, but using the audio line from the Presonus Audiobox output jacks into my MP11. That's where I got the hum.
The Audiobox substitutes for the headphone out on my laptop, and functions as its soundcard. I can't therefore use the laptop headphone out...
What do you mean by "insulating the earth pin on the laptop plug..."?
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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Try real MIDI cables going to your audio interface, rather than USB MIDI. This may cut the hum for option #1.
In option #5, if by "splitter" you mean a mixer, this is potentially the best solution.
I've tried mixing multiple piano sounds together but it never sounds very authentic to me. The internal sounds and the software sounds are often slightly out of tune for some notes and it sounds sort of honky-tonk-ish. I would stick to one or the other.
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
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Skyscrapersax, in order to achieve what you're hoping, you'll need to combine some of the methods in your list. Simply connecting audio cables will not allow the MP11's keyboard to control the software piano running on your computer. Similarly, a single MIDI or USB cable will not be sufficient to output audio from your computer or Presonus.
There's arguably no 'perfect' way to do this, however I would suggest the following steps:
1. Connect your computer to the Presonus via USB (as I assume you would normally) 2. Connect your computer to the MP11 using the instrument's 'USB to Host' port and a simple USB A-->B cable. 3. Connect your Preonus' audio outputs to the MP11's audio inputs using 2x TS cables. 4. Connect speakers or headphones to your MP11, then adjust the LINE IN level fader to adjust the input volume accordingly.
If you hear a hum, this is likely the result of a ground loop. Try disconnecting the USB cable between your computer and the MP11. If it goes away, you've found the source. Now you can either continue to use the USB connection, with an additional 'hum destroyer' somewhere in the audio input/output chain, or do away with that USB connection method, and connect the MP11 using the instrument's MIDI IN/OUT jacks.
The MP11's ground lift switch is only relevant when using the instruments XLR output jacks.
Best of luck!
Kind regards, James x
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Not mixing may be the best option for the "honky tonk" reason. I've not got that far yet....
Whether or not I mix two piano sounds, I'd like all of them (internal to MP11 and VST) to come out of the same source. Right now, they are MP11 out of the instrument's headphone jack, and VST out of the Presonus.
By "splitter," I just mean a "Y" cable, but a mixer would of course be better.
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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James, disconnecting the USB cable reduced, but did not eliminate, the hum. I wonder if better 1/4" cables would work. I have the standard HOSA brand. I don't want to buy another $200+ box if I don't have to...
Oddly, plugging a MIDI cable into the MIDI OUT on my MP11 ALMOST completely eliminates the hum. It's till "there," but way, way in the background, to the point that one has to listen for it in order to hear it.
This configuration (MP11 MIDI OUT to Presonus MIDI IN) "works," but the "line in" TRS 1/4" cables must still be utilized, hence the very, very faint hum.
Would a MIDI cable from the Presonus MIDI OUT to my MP11's MIDI IN eliminate the need for the 1/4" "line in" TRS cables? I could use the "line in" function for additional instruments in a "box," like PianoMan Chuck demonstrates on one of this instructional videos.
Nobody sells MIDI cords around here (suburban Detroit!), so before I put in another Amazon order, it would be great to know.
I suppose an additional benefit is that I could hear everything from the Presonus Audiobox headphone jack, as opposed to my MP11's headphone jack... or is this incorrect?
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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Would a MIDI cable from the Presonus MIDI OUT to my MP11's MIDI IN eliminate the need for the 1/4" "line in" TRS cables? No, MIDI only sends basic on/off information, e.g. play this note, at this velocity, for this amount of time - a little like an old piano roll. MIDI does not transmit any audio data, which is why we need the 1/4" cables. As I suggested in my previous post, you need both MIDI (be it via separate IN/OUT cables or a single USB cable) *and* audio in order to achieve what you're wishing to do. It's not either/or. I suppose an additional benefit is that I could hear everything from the Presonus Audiobox headphone jack, as opposed to my MP11's headphone jack... or is this incorrect? If you connect the MP11's audio outputs into your Presonus's audio inputs, and have the levels set correctly, you should be able to hear the MP11 by connecting a pair of headphones to the Presonus, yes. Best of luck. Kind regards, James x
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I see...
What benefit would a MIDI cable from the Presonus "OUT" to my MP11's MIDI "IN" achieve?
My guess is elimination of the USB cable..... (who knows, maybe that will get rid of the hum altogether...)
Thanks,
- Jeff
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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What benefit would a MIDI cable from the Presonus "OUT" to my MP11's MIDI "IN" achieve? This would allow your Presonus to send MIDI data (from your computer) to the MP11. For example, if you had a MIDI file or notated score package running on your computer, and wanted to hear the piece played back using the MP11's internal sounds. The MIDI IN/MIDI OUT cables can only send or receive data in one direction (hence we need two cables in order to send and receive). The USB cable simplifies things by combining both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT, while also doing away with the need to use a separate interface on the computer. You may find the following introduction to MIDI useful: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_articles/aug95/midibasics1.htmlCheers, James x
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Thanks....
One thing I want to do is to jam along with tunes off of (for example) Jamey Abersold or even uTube, hearing the internal MP11's piano sound. That would require hearing my MP11 through the Presonus Audiobox USB, or using a splitter or mixer.
I can do that using the VST piano now.
I don't think I need that extra MIDI cable just yet; thanks....
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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#3 (1/4" line out from MP11 into Presonus Audiobox USB) sounds awful, and there is a lot of hum. Maybe XLR cables? I think the 1/4" inputs on the Audiobox are for microphones, and there is an impedance mismatch or something....
Which do you use - 1/4" or XLR?
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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FWIW, I used a ground eliminator AC plug conversion device (yielding 2 prongs instead of 3 and thus eliminating the ground) for my MP11's electric cord - no more hum.
I assume that this is not a good thing to do.......
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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With respect to the hum problem, and referring to KJ's suggestion: 1. Connect your computer to the Presonus via USB (as I assume you would normally) 2. Connect your computer to the MP11 using the instrument's 'USB to Host' port and a simple USB A-->B cable. 3. Connect your Preonus' audio outputs to the MP11's audio inputs using 2x TS cables. 4. Connect speakers or headphones to your MP11, then adjust the LINE IN level fader to adjust the input volume accordingly. In item #2 ... instead of connecting the MP11's USB-to-host port to the computer via a USB cable, try connecting the MP11's MIDI in/out ports to the Presonus box. That makes for one LESS connection to the computer, and it might solve the ground-loop-hum issue.
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FWIW, I used a ground eliminator AC plug conversion device (yielding 2 prongs instead of 3 and thus eliminating the ground) for my MP11's electric cord - no more hum.
I assume that this is not a good thing to do....... Right -- never use cheater plugs to lift electrical grounds. Most likely nothing would ever happen, but if it did, it could be bad news. Ground lift switches on audio gear are an entirely different matter, and are fine, which is why they're there.
Last edited by rungabic; 03/12/15 02:02 PM.
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The Audio store has a "buzz eliminator" for fifty bucks. Time to invest...
Selmer Mark VI Tenor (‘73) & Alto Sax (‘57), Yamaha YSS-62 Soprano Sax (‘87), Conn Naked Lady Baritone Sax (‘52), Conn New Wonder Tenor & Alto Sax (‘24), Yamaha WX5 Wind Synth (‘13), Kawai MP11 & ES-110, Numa Compact 2x, Casio PX5S, Roland VR-09, Hammond E-112 (‘69).
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