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#2396986 - 03/11/15 11:32 PM Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF?
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 1189
Loc: USA
According to Kawai website

CA97/CA67 have "88 wooden keys with Ivory/Ebony key surfaces, Grand Feel II action with Let-Off and Triple Sensor."

CA95/CA65 have "88 wooden keys with Ivory Touch key surfaces / Grand Feel (GF) action with Let-Off and Triple Sensor."

Isn't that like the same thing?
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#2396997 - 03/12/15 12:09 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
ando Offline
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Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4709
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The ebony keys feel nicer and they have a deeper colour. That's the difference.

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#2397000 - 03/12/15 12:20 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11570
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
8 Octaves, please compare the two action reference images below:

Grand Feel (CA95/CA65, MP11)


Grand Feel II (CA97/CA67)


The GFII action offers the following improvements over GF:

- Ebony Touch black key surfaces
- More authentic key width and edge camber for black keys (based on SK-EX specification)
- Richer colour for black keys
- Moisture absorbency for black keys
- Revised hammer shape and weight (optimised centre of gravity, improves dynamic load)
- Counterweights on all 88 keys, graded from bass to treble
- Improved note-on timing, with ability to trigger notes from the let-off point

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2397004 - 03/12/15 12:34 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
8 Octaves Offline

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Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 1189
Loc: USA
Cool, thanks, ando, and for the details James!
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#2397034 - 03/12/15 02:51 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Kawai James]
dire tonic Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2710
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By Kawai James

The GFII action offers the following improvements over GF:

- Ebony Touch black key surfaces
- More authentic key width and edge camber for black keys (based on SK-EX specification)
- Richer colour for black keys
- Moisture absorbency for black keys
- Revised hammer shape and weight (optimised centre of gravity, improves dynamic load)
- Counterweights on all 88 keys, graded from bass to treble
- Improved note-on timing, with ability to trigger notes from the let-off point

Interested in hearing some feedback on this - the dynamic load and let-off changes could be big news. The new shape of the black keys - wider or narrower, I wonder? Does anyone know if black RM3-II = black GF?

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#2397037 - 03/12/15 03:06 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: dire tonic]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11570
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By dire tonic
The new shape of the black keys - wider or narrower, I wonder?


The top part of the key is a little wider, but only by a fraction of a millimetre. The new camber/shape is more significant in my opinion...but again, the change is still very subtle.

Originally Posted By dire tonic
Does anyone know if black RM3-II = black GF?


Yes, I believe so. The GFII black keys use a specially made mould.

Cheers,
James
x
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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2397066 - 03/12/15 05:08 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
dire tonic Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2710
Loc: uk south
- thanks, James. Depending on the camber a slightly wider black key could make targeting big-leap black keys with the pinky just that tiny bit easier - a problem I've come up against with a Schumann piece I'm currently murdering.

Looking forward to hearing players' reports of GFII.

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#2397230 - 03/12/15 03:30 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4675
Loc: Northern NJ
Excellent info + nudie pix! Thanks James!

Wouldn't it be great if the other manufacturers were as forthcoming regarding the details of their key actions? </dreaming>
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#2397237 - 03/12/15 04:11 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
Tralexer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/15
Posts: 58
Hey James,

Are these a big step up over the RM3s on the VPC1? I had a VPC1 but had to return it because the keys were super sluggish compared to what I was used to (especially when releasing the key).

Are these quicker to come up, more like an acoustic piano?

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#2397262 - 03/12/15 05:29 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
lolatu Offline
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 912
Loc: UK
Out of interest, does Kawai use the same moulded wood-effect on the black keys of its acoustic grands?
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#2397320 - 03/12/15 09:11 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Tralexer]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11570
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By Octaves_Up
Are these a big step up over the RM3s on the VPC1?


Well, the GF/GFII action's key sticks and key pivot are longer than on the RM3 Grand action. This improves the weighting of the keyboard, and for a number of players was a reason to upgrade. However, these things are incredibly subjective - I'm afraid I cannot tell you if you'll prefer GF/GFII to RM3 Grand any more than I can say which two pairs of shoes will feel more comfortable on your feet.

Originally Posted By Octaves_Up
I had a VPC1 but had to return it because the keys were super sluggish compared to what I was used to (especially when releasing the key).


That's interesting, and certainly not a complain I've heard before. I don't know what kind of action your Bohemia upright uses, but it must be very fast. The typical feedback we receive from those who play the VPC1 is that it's the most realistic (digital) keyboard action they've ever played.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2397415 - 03/13/15 04:11 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: lolatu]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 11570
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By lolatu
Out of interest, does Kawai use the same moulded wood-effect on the black keys of its acoustic grands?


No, I don't believe so.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#2397536 - 03/13/15 11:50 AM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Kawai James]
Tralexer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/15
Posts: 58
Originally Posted By Kawai James
That's interesting, and certainly not a complain I've heard before. I don't know what kind of action your Bohemia upright uses, but it must be very fast. The typical feedback we receive from those who play the VPC1 is that it's the most realistic (digital) keyboard action they've ever played.

Kind regards,
James
x


Ya its got great reviews, but I've noticed other people mentioning the sluggish feel (a couple sweetwater reviews, and one professional review I believe). For my Behomia, I definitely love the action, but its not too different from other mid range uprights.

If I lift my finger off any key on the bohemia, the key returns the top far quicker than on the VPC1. My piano teacher even tried the VPC1 and, although she was extremely impressed with it (its crazy a midi controller feels that real), she said the exact same thing, that the keys were slow. Maybe it was just mine. There's a video on YouTube of a guy improving the speed on his CA95, but supposedly his was because of dirt.

Either way, I still absolutely love Kawai products, and am still hoping to pick up a CA97 when they finally get through the Long Beach harbor. Going to go try a CA95 tomorrow.

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#2397548 - 03/13/15 12:13 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Tralexer]
Alexander Borro Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 729
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By Octaves_Up
Originally Posted By Kawai James
That's interesting, and certainly not a complain I've heard before. I don't know what kind of action your Bohemia upright uses, but it must be very fast. The typical feedback we receive from those who play the VPC1 is that it's the most realistic (digital) keyboard action they've ever played.

Kind regards,
James
x


Ya its got great reviews, but I've noticed other people mentioning the sluggish feel (a couple sweetwater reviews, and one professional review I believe). For my Behomia, I definitely love the action, but its not too different from other mid range uprights.

If I lift my finger off any key on the bohemia, the key returns the top far quicker than on the VPC1. My piano teacher even tried the VPC1 and, although she was extremely impressed with it (its crazy a midi controller feels that real), she said the exact same thing, that the keys were slow. Maybe it was just mine. There's a video on YouTube of a guy improving the speed on his CA95, but supposedly his was because of dirt.

Either way, I still absolutely love Kawai products, and am still hoping to pick up a CA97 when they finally get through the Long Beach harbor. Going to go try a CA95 tomorrow.


What you need to do is turn the VPC1 180 degrees and glue it to the ceiling.

My sense of humour is off today, but sir Isaac would have been proud of this solution and discovered gravity laugh



Edited by Alexander Borro (03/13/15 12:14 PM)
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#2397573 - 03/13/15 01:33 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Alexander Borro]
Tralexer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/15
Posts: 58
Originally Posted By Alexander Borro
What you need to do is turn the VPC1 180 degrees and glue it to the ceiling.

My sense of humour is off today, but sir Isaac would have been proud of this solution and discovered gravity laugh


Hah, as if my music studio wasn't already hectic enough, sure why not I'll add a keyboard to the ceiling! :P

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#2509609 - 02/11/16 09:14 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Kawai James]
Mental Nomad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 67
Originally Posted By Kawai James

- Improved note-on timing, with ability to trigger notes from the let-off point


This is an interesting (and valuable) tidbit I've yet to see anywhere else.

Thanks, James.

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#2509850 - 02/12/16 01:18 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Mental Nomad]
pv88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 3494
Originally Posted By Mental Nomad
Originally Posted By Kawai James

- Improved note-on timing, with ability to trigger notes from the let-off point


This is an interesting (and valuable) tidbit I've yet to see anywhere else.


There are two (2) other digitals that can trigger sound from the "let-off" (i.e., escapement point) as I currently own both of them and they are:

1) Clavinova CLP-990 (made in 2001)

2) Roland V-Piano

Question:

I find it interesting that Yamaha has not carried over this feature in the later models which include the Clavinova CLP-480 and CLP-585 of which I have owned and now have, respectively. The latest CLP-585 does not have this feature yet the older CLP-990 does -- wonder why?
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#2509892 - 02/12/16 03:45 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: pv88]
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 1189
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By pv88
Question:

I find it interesting that Yamaha has not carried over this feature in the later models which include the Clavinova CLP-480 and CLP-585 of which I have owned and now have, respectively. The latest CLP-585 does not have this feature yet the older CLP-990 does -- wonder why?


Having read your question, I went over to my Yamaha C3X to find the let-off point for several keys then press hard down from there resulting in a very small sound, very quiet and muted. It produced barely any tone. It's not a good kind of tone, and there is no reason to want to play a piano this way. You want the soft sounds to be warm and relax, not short and tense. I don't see why you would choose to play with this effect except for some specific modern repertoire perhaps. The answer to your question, is that just because a piano could make certain sounds under certain circumstances doesn't mean it's desirable nor pianistic. If I slam the dampers against the strings it produces a specific sound, so why don't DP makers put that into DP's? Maybe because you're not supposed to slam the pedal / dampers to begin with, but it's possible on a real piano.

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#2509896 - 02/12/16 03:52 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
alerique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
[quote=pv88]If I slam the dampers against the strings it produces a specific sound, so why don't DP makers put that into DP's? Maybe because you're not supposed to slam the pedal / dampers to begin with, but it's possible on a real piano.



but they do! try slamming a pedal on Kawai CA series.... My understanding is Kawai went down the road of emulating AP as much as they can, for good or bad.

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#2509905 - 02/12/16 04:03 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: alerique]
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 1189
Loc: USA
Yup, did try it on a CA97/67. Nothing to write home about. Try slamming the damper on a RX7....
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#2509914 - 02/12/16 04:32 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
alerique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
Yup, did try it on a CA97/67. Nothing to write home about. Try slamming the damper on a RX7....


I would imagine... But then again, if you love your damper noise you can crank it up twice on those Kawais... By default volume is 5, but you can make it 10.

I'm sure RX7 can still do much much more, but at on CA at 10 said noise is quite excessive already.

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#2509927 - 02/12/16 05:06 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: alerique]
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 1189
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By alerique
I would imagine... But then again, if you love your damper noise you can crank it up twice on those Kawais... By default volume is 5, but you can make it 10.


You misunderstand. I think DP should NOT reproduce every undesirable artifact of a real piano. The beauty of the DP is that they are extremely easy to play and sound good on. They makers of DP should make the DP even easier and better by focusing on improving the tone and not worry about acoustic artifacts like the let-off or playing from the let-off. The DP already make us sound really good today compare to playing an acoustic, so progress should be have the DP make us sound even better.

If you want a really good simulation of a real piano, just buy a real piano. For the price of the CA97, you could get a pretty nice Kawai or Yamaha acoustic piano.
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#2509945 - 02/12/16 05:41 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
alerique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
Originally Posted By alerique
I would imagine... But then again, if you love your damper noise you can crank it up twice on those Kawais... By default volume is 5, but you can make it 10.


You misunderstand. I think DP should NOT reproduce every undesirable artifact of a real piano. The beauty of the DP is that they are extremely easy to play and sound good on. They makers of DP should make the DP even easier and better by focusing on improving the tone and not worry about acoustic artifacts like the let-off or playing from the let-off. The DP already make us sound really good today compare to playing an acoustic, so progress should be have the DP make us sound even better.

If you want a really good simulation of a real piano, just buy a real piano. For the price of the CA97, you could get a pretty nice Kawai or Yamaha acoustic piano.


I hear you, but it widely depends on use case. We bought CA67 because our living situation simply does not allow to practice for a prolonged time at a full volume of an upright, let alone grand (which we don't have a place for to begin with). Yet my wife played AP all her life and is used to it and that's what she likes. Thus for her all these unnecessary sounds and little inaccuracies just make an instrument more comfy, more familiar. I guess, it's often the case. It's literally for people who want an AP but can't use one.

On the other hand, human ear likes small inaccuracies and peculiarities. Too perfect is unnatural. Maybe it makes sense, I don't know.

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#2510250 - 02/13/16 06:31 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: alerique]
JEB NYC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 70
Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
I hear you, but it widely depends on use case. We bought CA67 because our living situation simply does not allow to practice for a prolonged time at a full volume of an upright, let alone grand (which we don't have a place for to begin with). Yet my wife played AP all her life and is used to it and that's what she likes. Thus for her all these unnecessary sounds and little inaccuracies just make an instrument more comfy, more familiar. I guess, it's often the case. It's literally for people who want an AP but can't use one.

On the other hand, human ear likes small inaccuracies and peculiarities. Too perfect is unnatural. Maybe it makes sense, I don't know.

Would it make sense to introduce a setting that would toggle between "reproduce an AP as closely as possible, quirks and all" and "eliminate all those annoying imperfections?" Presumably one can already use existing settings to ratchet down or turn off the quirks, but a setting that lets you get there and back in a single step would be a lot easier than figuring out what settings need to be adjusted and setting them all individually.

Of course this couldn't be done for let-off, which is implemented in the action itself, and can't be easily toggled. That's unfortunate, because that's probably the most important AP "imperfection" that is simulated by DPs.

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#2510258 - 02/13/16 06:55 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: JEB NYC]
alerique Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By JEB NYC
Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
I hear you, but it widely depends on use case. We bought CA67 because our living situation simply does not allow to practice for a prolonged time at a full volume of an upright, let alone grand (which we don't have a place for to begin with). Yet my wife played AP all her life and is used to it and that's what she likes. Thus for her all these unnecessary sounds and little inaccuracies just make an instrument more comfy, more familiar. I guess, it's often the case. It's literally for people who want an AP but can't use one.

On the other hand, human ear likes small inaccuracies and peculiarities. Too perfect is unnatural. Maybe it makes sense, I don't know.

Would it make sense to introduce a setting that would toggle between "reproduce an AP as closely as possible, quirks and all" and "eliminate all those annoying imperfections?" Presumably one can already use existing settings to ratchet down or turn off the quirks, but a setting that lets you get there and back in a single step would be a lot easier than figuring out what settings need to be adjusted and setting them all individually.

Of course this couldn't be done for let-off, which is implemented in the action itself, and can't be easily toggled. That's unfortunate, because that's probably the most important AP "imperfection" that is simulated by DPs.


For Kawai CA67/97 this setting is there. You just turn off the noises in the Virtual Technician. It has a preset that turns off all this stuff in a press of the button.

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#2510541 - 02/14/16 03:56 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: alerique]
Mental Nomad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 67
Originally Posted By alerique
Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
[quote=pv88]If I slam the dampers against the strings it produces a specific sound, so why don't DP makers put that into DP's? Maybe because you're not supposed to slam the pedal / dampers to begin with, but it's possible on a real piano.



but they do! try slamming a pedal on Kawai CA series.... My understanding is Kawai went down the road of emulating AP as much as they can, for good or bad.


Actually, funny you two should mention this... just a few weeks ago, I was testing the the CA97 and CA67 at a local piano dealer in NJ (Forte Piano). While using headphones with the volume high, I was listening for how long the notes rang. I noticed that the note seemed to trail off too quickly when listening without headphones... but that they lasted much longer with headphones. In fact, I eventually figured out that what's happening is that the note decay speed is fine, but if you don't have the volume on the DP turned up very high (or if you're in a place that isn't quiet), then the note decays to be too quiet for you to hear too quickly. It's still ringing, but you don't notice it unless you really lean in ... and the same was happening with the acoustic pianos in the showroom. If I turned up the DP to be as loud as the acoustic, I heard it ring longer than before, but on both acoustic and DP, the decay seemed "too quick..." when the decay on the acoustic seems too quick, you realize that it's just falling below your threshold of hearing over the ambient room noise! If it's quieter, you'd hear it longer. Or if you're wearing quality headphones that block much room noise, it lasts longer (of course, that's only an option on the DP, not the acoustic.)

Anyway, on damper noise... this was supposed to be about damper noise! With headphones on and the volume turned up, I stepped rapidly on the damper pedal and heard the noise. (Technical note; this is not the sound of slamming the dampers into the strings; stomping on the damper pedal lifts the dampers off the strings rapidly, and doing so too quickly will result in them making a sound. To make the sound of the dampers hitting the strings, you'd have to let go of the damper pedal quickly.) I recognized the sound, and thought it was natural and correct, but too loud. I though it was much too loud. I was playing the Shigeru EX concert grand sound, and I was sure the damper release was too loud, and said so to the owner. (We had just had a long technical conversation.) So, he invited me to go play his Shigeru EX concert grand.

No kidding. I didn't know the piano store had an adjacent recital space, where he had a freshly-tuned Shigeru EX concert grand. So I went back and forth, playing with different things on the CA97 (with high-end headphones) and the actual Shigeru EX.

And I had to go admit to the owner that the pedal sound and volume are dead-on, but that my pedal technique had gone to crap. The sound was correct, and the response was correct, and the volume was correct (from the pianist's perspective.) Also, the note decay was correct (when the note volumes were set to the same levels, comparing CA97 with headphones to the acoustic in the quieter room.)

My history: I started out on acoustic pianos, but my last few years, I'd been playing a Kawai CA93. Before that, I had another DP. So it was three pianos ago that I played an acoustic regularly. Because my last two DP's didn't bring out the pedal noise, I'd become sloppy with my pedaling... so much so, that when presented with an actual acoustic Shigeru EX (or a very accurate DP reproducing one), I was hearing pedal noise caused by my lead foot!

I was honestly surprised, and more than a bit disappointed in my technique, but I was quite in impressed with what the Kawai guys have acheived.

Originally Posted By 8 Octaves
I think DP should NOT reproduce every undesirable artifact of a real piano...

The DP already make us sound really good today compare to playing an acoustic, so progress should be have the DP make us sound even better.


I can appreciate your position, but some of us want to be good pianists. In my case, if the DP doesn't simulate how a real piano responds, I'm not being a good pianist... and that will show when I sit down at a real piano. My poor pedal technique reminds me of this.

Fortunately, as Alerique and others have noted... the Kawai CA (and many other DPs) lets you turn off the simulation of these artifacts if you don't want to hear them.

Originally Posted By 8 Octaves

If you want a really good simulation of a real piano, just buy a real piano. For the price of the CA97, you could get a pretty nice Kawai or Yamaha acoustic piano.


Here, I don't agree at all. You can't get in the same ballpark. For the price of a CA97 (which does a remarkable job of simulating a $100k+ piano) you can only buy an upright, and not even one of the better uprights.

And if you want an action comparable to a grand's, and you want a good-sounding piano, a CA97 (or CA67 with headphones) goes a remarkable distance for a very modest price... even an inexpensive grand would be a huge increase in cost, and in maintenance cost, and in space consumed. They are just not comparable.


Edited by Mental Nomad (02/14/16 04:06 PM)

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#2510547 - 02/14/16 04:19 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: JEB NYC]
Mental Nomad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 67
Originally Posted By JEB NYC
... this couldn't be done for let-off, which is implemented in the action itself, and can't be easily toggled. That's unfortunate, because that's probably the most important AP "imperfection" that is simulated by DPs.


I don't really agree with the idea that the sensation of "let-off" is mere imperfection.

Yes, that tactile feedback is introduced by the physical second escapement mechanism (the jack coming off the shoulder), and yes, a well-regulated piano minimizes that feeling because we don't want it to be too prominent... but that feeling is still there, and more importantly, it ends up serving a purpose: it gives us tactile feedback of the exact depth at which the key triggers the note. That means it also gives us tactile feedback of the height above which the key must rise before the key can re-trigger the note. We don't think about it much, but tactile feedback (also called haptic feedback in the research literature) gives us important cues.

You may not consciously realize it, especially if you don't often change pianos, but since different pianos all have slightly different overall key stroke depths and slightly different action weights, the subtle let-off sensation helps us quickly and intuitively adapt to the feel of each piano we sit at.

I don't think experienced pianists appreciate the let-off just because it's a familiar "imperfection." Rather, I think they appreciate it because it's a valuable physical cue they're accustomed to... one without which a keyboard feels a little bit "dead."


Edited by Mental Nomad (02/14/16 04:20 PM)

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#2510907 - 02/15/16 01:03 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: pv88]
Mental Nomad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 67
Originally Posted By pv88
Originally Posted By Mental Nomad
Originally Posted By Kawai James

- Improved note-on timing, with ability to trigger notes from the let-off point


This is an interesting (and valuable) tidbit I've yet to see anywhere else.


There are two (2) other digitals that can trigger sound from the "let-off" (i.e., escapement point) as I currently own both of them...



I didn't mean that no other DPs do this.

I meant that I had not seen the improved note-on timing called out as a feature improvement between GF and GF2 in other Kawai literature/web site/articles.

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#2510948 - 02/15/16 03:12 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: Mental Nomad]
JoBert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 182
Loc: Germany
@Mental Nomad:

Thank you for posting your experience with the CA 97 vs. the real SK EX Concert Grand. As an owner of the former (with the latter only a dream) it gives me warm fuzzy feelings to hear how well "my" piano manages to emulate its larger cousin (although I am of course fully aware that there is still a gulf between them). Since I will likely never have the opportunity to make such a comparison myself, it is great to read about yours. It's one thing to read such statements in Kawai's marketing material, but a whole different thing to read them as the opinion of another piano enthusiast.
_________________________
Kawai CA 97 | Yamaha P-115
My piano recordings on YouTube

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#2515485 - 02/27/16 05:50 PM Re: Could someone tell me difference of GF II vs GF? [Re: 8 Octaves]
Ableton82 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 8
This thread originally stared out with comparing the GFI to the GFII. I was able to play both today and noticed a big difference between the two. The GFI felt springy and had less resistance than the GFII. The GFII in my opinion sounded much more authentic. That said, I'm not sure I'm willing to shell out that kind of cash for a CA67. My other options would be the MP11 for the GFI or the VPC1 for the RM3II. Unfortunately I can't find a VPC1 to try in and around Minneapolis. Might just roll the dice on the VPC1...

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