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#2398417 - 03/15/15 01:28 PM Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds?
JEB NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 18
Many new digital pianos have dozens or even hundreds of sounds, including many that are really just useless novelties. That's fine -- there is plenty of room. But wouldn't it would be interesting and useful to have a wide array of historical keyboard sounds? This is how Mozart's piano might have sounded! Or one of Chopin's uprights. Or an early piano Bach might have played. Or Purcell's virginal. Or a square piano. And so on. How could it not be fun and interesting to hear the music as it was originally heard by the original audiences?

Yet there aren't nearly as many historical options as one might think. I'm in the market right now, and of the three vendors I've been focusing on, Roland has harpsichord and fortepiano, Kawai has harpsichord and clavichord, and Yamaha has only harpsichord.

That seems to be it. I've only checked the online manuals for the models I'm interested in, so I could have missed something, but still, this seems kind of paltry. So this is both an online gripe and a suggestion to DP manufacturers: if you are going to give us 300+ sounds, including ocarina, bird tweet, and car crash (I'm looking at you, Kawai CN35!), couldn't you at least give us maybe 10 or 15 historical keyboards?

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#2398419 - 03/15/15 01:41 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Dennis R in WA Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Spokane
I like the way your thinking Jeb. This is something that has never occurred to me before. I suspect that between the lack of historical pianos, piano forte`s, etc. and the lack of access to the precious these precious few is the reason. That said, it would be pretty darn cool if somehow these samples could be created / made.

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#2398423 - 03/15/15 02:01 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
MRC Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 169
Loc: Germany
There are plenty of historical instruments and excellent copies around. There are also plenty of samples of these instruments, but the big DP manufacturers haven't shown much interest in putting them into their consumer models.

The best solution for the moment is to buy a DP with an action that suits you and add samples such as these: realsamples.

Pianoteq does two nice series of modelled historic instruments: Kremsegg 1 and Kremsegg 2
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Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Casio PX-150 digital (2013), Yamaha NU1 hybrid (2014)

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#2398437 - 03/15/15 02:25 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 705
Loc: UK
Probably because producing sample sets that sound any good is hard work / expensive / memory consuming. The ocarina sound probably only consists of about 4 samples, while a piano-type instrument requires at least 100, and even then it'll be stretched and have audible layer transitions and looping.
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#2398482 - 03/15/15 03:55 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 810
Loc: Dorset, UK
Pianoteq has some free historical (modelled) instruments - the Kremsegg are chargeable - which give some reasonable to good sounds. Recently I have been experimenting with the 1791 Anton Walter, playing the Mozart C Minor Fantasia and comparing the sounds (not the playing!) with a cd of a copy of a 1785 Walter played by Andreas Staier of the same piece. The sounds are comparable. There is also an 1826 Conrad Graf, siutable for Schubert etc. I don't use the Pianoteq harpsichords - and "built-in" DP harpsichords are pretty grim - but would recommend the 1624 Ruckers copy (sampled), from Sonus Paradisi. Not expensive.

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#2398542 - 03/15/15 06:21 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: sandalholme]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1768
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By sandalholme
Pianoteq has some free historical (modelled) instruments - the Kremsegg are chargeable - which give some reasonable to good sounds. . . .


+1.

I only have the "KiViR" instruments (included free in the "base" Pianoteq). They're playable, and interesting.

There is, basically, no market for historical piano sounds in commercial DP's. But it's reasonably easy to "tweak" a modelled software piano (e.g. Pianoteq) to sound like something with lower string tension, thinner strings, etc.

And there are enough people interested so that Pianoteq can charge for some of those instruments.

. Charles

PS -- the Pianoteq software people might argue with "reasonably easy". I'm sure they put significant work into measuring the characteristics of the historical pianos. But they didn't have to sample every note.

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#2398549 - 03/15/15 06:56 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Portugal
Roland has had forte-pianos and such like as standard for years now (two series old). I don't know if they are good, but they do have special section of the DP devoted to them:

In addition to the selection of onboard grand-piano sounds, the HP-505 features a newly added Early Piano category containing four fortepiano variations and two harpsichord variations. Masterpieces composed by maestros such as Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin can be played with the original sounds from the period. The appreciation and understanding for the piece is heightened when using the instrument that was actually used by the composers. You can also play these early piano sounds with built-in historic temperaments which are ideal to play with other classical instruments.
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#2398559 - 03/15/15 07:31 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
peterws Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4185
Loc: Northern England.
I`ve used the ocarina, bird tweet but not (yet) the car crash in my songs . . I take your point about vintage pianos.

Now, Pianoteq 5 has these. Amongst them is the Broadwood. I had an old (1856) Broadwood, it didn`t have a modern action but sounded lovely and mellow. NOTHiNG like the picture Pianoteq paints . . .so even if we had these from our esteemed DP manufacturers, I rather think they'd be misleading in the extreme.
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#2398771 - 03/16/15 10:07 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: lolatu]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4600
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By lolatu
Probably because producing sample sets that sound any good is hard work / expensive / memory consuming. The ocarina sound probably only consists of about 4 samples, while a piano-type instrument requires at least 100, and even then it'll be stretched and have audible layer transitions and looping.

Yes. DP manufacturers can barely be trusted to put one decent piano voice in there, asking for more is probably asking for trouble.
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#2398777 - 03/16/15 10:23 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Bellicapelli Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 42
Loc: Tuscany Italy
I got the sensation that somehow, by adding the power cable, digital pianos have made the transition from a professional device, intended just for users who know or are interested in learning, to casual / mass consumer oriented device.

Same reason why there's no digital piano company trying to incorporate near vst - level quality audio in their products, and there seems to be no justification to that, other than market study.
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#2400766 - 03/20/15 07:56 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
JEB NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By MRC
There are plenty of historical instruments and excellent copies around. There are also plenty of samples of these instruments, but the big DP manufacturers haven't shown much interest in putting them into their consumer models.

The best solution for the moment is to buy a DP with an action that suits you and add samples such as these: realsamples.

Pianoteq does two nice series of modelled historic instruments: Kremsegg 1 and Kremsegg 2

Wow, thank you for the links -- the samples are a revelation! I have no special knowledge of historical keyboard instruments; I just think it's an obvious win to be able to play a composition on the same sort of piano the composer might have played, and I'm surprised that the vendors haven't done more in this regard. So it's interesting to see what has been done by others.

I'm a little unclear though about what you mean when you suggest that I "add samples" to a DP. Are you saying that I can buy samples (hmmm, they're expensive!) and install them into a DP, so that they can be called up as additional voice selections, as though they had come with the piano? Or are you talking about attaching a PC to the piano and using the piano as a controller? Or something else?

Originally Posted By dewster
Originally Posted By lolatu
Probably because producing sample sets that sound any good is hard work / expensive / memory consuming. The ocarina sound probably only consists of about 4 samples, while a piano-type instrument requires at least 100, and even then it'll be stretched and have audible layer transitions and looping.

Yes. DP manufacturers can barely be trusted to put one decent piano voice in there, asking for more is probably asking for trouble.

Memory is so cheap these days that I can't believe it's a constraint. And yes, making good samples can't be easy, but if anyone would have the expertise you would think it would be the DP manufacturers. And once you have the sample, you have it forever. Looking at the manual for the CN35, I count 14 different acoustic pianos. Given that a fairly high percentage of buyers of higher end console DPs must be interested in classical music, wouldn't you expect that "Beethoven's piano" would pack a greater marketing punch than "New Age Piano 3" or "Wide Honky Tonk"?

Anyway, this isn't going to do me any good, since I'm going to be buying soon, and I'm pretty much set on a home style console DP, rather than some elaborate keyboard/PC/speaker setup, even though that might give me more flexibility in terms of sounds. But I figure there may be someone reading this forum who will have some say in specing out the next generation of DPs, so I wanted to push the idea a little while I'm here. Can't hurt; might help.

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#2400857 - 03/21/15 03:28 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
MRC Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 169
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By JEB NYC
Originally Posted By MRC
There are plenty of historical instruments and excellent copies around. There are also plenty of samples of these instruments, but the big DP manufacturers haven't shown much interest in putting them into their consumer models.

The best solution for the moment is to buy a DP with an action that suits you and add samples such as these: realsamples.

Pianoteq does two nice series of modelled historic instruments: Kremsegg 1 and Kremsegg 2

Wow, thank you for the links -- the samples are a revelation! I have no special knowledge of historical keyboard instruments; I just think it's an obvious win to be able to play a composition on the same sort of piano the composer might have played, and I'm surprised that the vendors haven't done more in this regard. So it's interesting to see what has been done by others.


I agree. It can be illuminating to play on the sort of instrument the composer may have used. Very few people have the money and space to buy copies of historical instruments: samples are a much cheaper alternative. Some of the modelled instruments from Pianoteq are pretty convincing, too.

Quote:
I'm a little unclear though about what you mean when you suggest that I "add samples" to a DP. Are you saying that I can buy samples (hmmm, they're expensive!) and install them into a DP, so that they can be called up as additional voice selections, as though they had come with the piano? Or are you talking about attaching a PC to the piano and using the piano as a controller? Or something else?


Attaching a PC to the piano and using the piano as a controller. If the DP has a Line In input you can run the audio from the PC through the piano speakers. Otherwise you can play it through whatever speaker system you possess.

It would be nice if it were possible to install new samples directly into a DP and not have to connect a computer, but I don't know of any DP that allows this to be done.



Edited by MRC (03/21/15 03:29 AM)
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#2400880 - 03/21/15 07:03 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By JEB NYC

Anyway, this isn't going to do me any good, since I'm going to be buying soon, and I'm pretty much set on a home style console DP, rather than some elaborate keyboard/PC/speaker setup, even though that might give me more flexibility in terms of sounds.


As I said above, Roland console pianos, since the HP503/5/7 range have a section of period instruments, so that seems to fit your requirement. It is certainly worth trying them to see what you think.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2400941 - 03/21/15 10:32 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: toddy]
JEB NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By toddy
Originally Posted By JEB NYC

Anyway, this isn't going to do me any good, since I'm going to be buying soon, and I'm pretty much set on a home style console DP, rather than some elaborate keyboard/PC/speaker setup, even though that might give me more flexibility in terms of sounds.


As I said above, Roland console pianos, since the HP503/5/7 range have a section of period instruments, so that seems to fit your requirement. It is certainly worth trying them to see what you think.

I did note in my original post that Roland has a fortepiano sound. (In fact it additionally lists "mellow" and "brilliant" fortepianos, which I assumed were just variations of the same instrument, but maybe they're actually different). But it lacks a clavichord. (It does have a full set of GM2 midi sounds, including "clavinet", but these are synthesized, not sampled). So nobody has what I consider the basic three: harpsichord; clavichord; and fortepiano. But now that I've heard MRC's samples I'm spoiled. I want some of those! I continue to argue that a set of good historical keyboard sounds would be a significant marketing plus for any DP vendor that acquired them. I'd like to see at least three distinct pre-piano sounds and three distinct historical pianos. There is plenty of room inside the pianos; all that is lacking is the will.

I also have a problem with Roland availability. The only Rolands I've been able to find on the floor in my area are the F-130R, DP90Se, and LX-15e, at Sam Ash in Manhattan. The former is too low end, and the latter out of my price range. The extremely compact DP90Se is intriguing (although I would want the less expensive DP90e version, which a Sam Ash salesman insisted was no longer available, no matter what Roland's web site suggests). It does have the fortepiano sounds, which is a plus, and if it were a close race that could be a deciding factor. But of course this is only one consideration among many, and in the end I like the Kawai's I've been able to try better. (I do have to say I wasn't actually all that impressed with the Roland fortepiano sound, but I don't know if that's the fault of the sample or the fault of my playing).

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#2400948 - 03/21/15 10:55 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1983
Loc: Portugal
For what it's worth, the Roland set actually includes at least two harpsichords, quite separately from the clavinet (which, in any case, is a modern instrument beloved by 1970's funk bands, mostly).

The harpsichords include a doubled (at an octave) sample. Whether you think they're any good is another matter. I suppose they are of a similar quality to other rompler GM sets: not bad, but certainly not very interesting, or of premium quality.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2401000 - 03/21/15 02:43 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Sundown Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/06/15
Posts: 6
I think it boils down to market demand. If you hang out in a piano or keyboard store and listen to the styles of music being played, not many would be drawn to historical instruments. I think it's an intriguing idea, but it's not going to have mass appeal (not enough to get the manufacturer's attention).
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Kawai MP11 / Korg Wavestation EX / Roland XV-3080 / Roland D-20
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#2401005 - 03/21/15 03:10 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
EPW Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 75
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
I think with PianoTeq doing historical instruments the incentive for manufacturers
is not strong.

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#2401044 - 03/21/15 06:28 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: Sundown]
JEB NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By Sundown
I think it boils down to market demand. If you hang out in a piano or keyboard store and listen to the styles of music being played, not many would be drawn to historical instruments. I think it's an intriguing idea, but it's not going to have mass appeal (not enough to get the manufacturer's attention).

I could be wrong of course, but I think it's just possible the manufacturers have misjudged demand. Gigging pop keyboardists who aren't interested in classical music probably spend a lot more time in the stores than your typical buyer of a home console DP, so that may not be a representative sample. I remain convinced that historical sounds would carry at least some weight with a portion of the home market (and certainly more weight than sounds like "New Age Piano 3"). Like the first person who responded to my post, this market may not even realize it wants these sounds, until the manufacturers do a little communicating. (I mean, did the home market know it wanted built-in piano tutors before the manufacturers let it know that it did? wink )

The main issue I guess is really return on investment. Once a DP manufactures has some good samples, the marginal cost of including those samples in every DP it makes from then on is effectively zero, and that seems like an obvious win. But I have to admit I don't know the up-front costs of acquiring good samples. It doesn't seem like it ought to be prohibitive. (The DP manufacturers are not tiny companies; if they wanted to they could probably buy Pianoteq or realsamples outright.) Still, I have to admit I don't really know what I am talking about here, so I would be curious if anyone had a ballpark estimate of how much it costs to get a good sample from a historical instrument.

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#2401062 - 03/21/15 07:14 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Johan B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 1608
Loc: The Netherlands, Grootegast-Gr...
I don't know any dp that has a real Pianoforte-sound.

Since 31 january I have a Kawai CA95. This instrument has a virtual technician. In this modus it's possible to use old temperaments such as Pythagorean, Meantone, Werckmeister III, Kirnberger III.......very nice for an authentic sound......

Best regards,
Johan b


Edited by Johan B (03/21/15 07:19 PM)
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#2401066 - 03/21/15 07:33 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: Johan B]
JEB NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By Johan B
I don't know any dp that has a real Pianoforte-sound.

Since 31 january I have a Kawai CA95. This instrument has a virtual technician. In this modus it's possible to use old temperaments such as Pythagorean, Meantone, Werckmeister III, Kirnberger III.......very nice for an authentic sound......

Best regards,
Johan b

I've been looking forward to trying out temperaments in my next piano. I don't have golden ears, and I suspect I won't hear much difference. I still want them though. smile

Actually I had meant to bring temperaments up earlier. The people who appreciate temperaments are the exact same people who would appreciate historical keyboard sounds! The fact that temperaments are included in higher end DPs pretty much proves that DP manufacturers see at least some market for historical accuracy.

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#2401106 - 03/21/15 09:46 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
lolatu Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 705
Loc: UK
Pianoteq comes with two harpsichords, a cimbalom, a clavichord, and 5 historical pianos for free download. There are loads of others that you can buy (e.g. here and here).

I was playing around with some of them this afternoon. I don't really like the historical pianos much, but the Grimaldi harpsichord is good, and the Neupert clavichord is really excellent for playing baroque pieces. It feels very real, and sounds great over the CA95's speakers.

As for different tunings, whenever I've tried them everything just sounds out of tune to my ear. Wasn't all music from Bach onwards (i.e. the entire piano repertoire) written for equal temperament? That was kind of the point of the Well Tempered Clavier, wasn't it?
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#2401110 - 03/21/15 09:54 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: lolatu]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4600
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By lolatu
As for different tunings, whenever I've tried them everything just sounds out of tune to my ear.

Same here, the old tunings sound off to my ears.

I think it's extremely fortunate that our modern ears can and have been trained to hear equal temperament as something of an ideal. It solves so many problems when it comes to fixed tuning instruments like the piano.
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#2401134 - 03/21/15 11:30 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 250
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By JEB NYC
Once a DP manufactures has some good samples, the marginal cost of including those samples in every DP it makes from then on is effectively zero...

Nonsense, if you are talking about high quality sound - the memory that current chips utilise is not cheap. Currently the manufacturers struggle to include one good quality piano sample (i.e. not stretched, preferably unlooped sound with long sustain and sufficient number of dynamic levels).
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#2401141 - 03/22/15 12:13 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Dwscamel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 608
I finally bought Pianoteq recently, and the historical instruments collection is one of my favorite parts. The harpsichord and bell add-ons put a big fat smile on my face, too, especially when I'm playing Bach (for some reason) smile. I'm never going back to samples . . . it's modelled or a real-deal acoustic, nothing else for me!
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#2401175 - 03/22/15 03:27 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: lolatu]
Bochi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By lolatu

As for different tunings, whenever I've tried them everything just sounds out of tune to my ear. Wasn't all music from Bach onwards (i.e. the entire piano repertoire) written for equal temperament? That was kind of the point of the Well Tempered Clavier, wasn't it?


Not quite. The point of the Well Tempered Clavier was that it used a Well Temperament (or Good Temperament) which would have been an irregular temperament that allowed for more key modulations than the Renaissance meantone temperament.

Kirnberger temperament is one such, and he was a pupil of JSB, but alas fell out with Bach over just this issue so his tuning, while contemporary with Bach, is probably not what Bach used.

There's even a theory that Bach's own temperament is given in code on the front page of the first edition of the Well Tempered Klavier, hidden in the whorls and flourishes of the decoration...

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#2401178 - 03/22/15 03:40 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: dewster]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 958
Originally Posted By dewster
Originally Posted By lolatu
As for different tunings, whenever I've tried them everything just sounds out of tune to my ear.

Same here, the old tunings sound off to my ears.

I think it's extremely fortunate that our modern ears can and have been trained to hear equal temperament as something of an ideal. It solves so many problems when it comes to fixed tuning instruments like the piano.

Well, using the old tunings - all of which require to set the base key and all of which have unequal intervals - requires some understanding of how harmonies and intervals work in a given piece, or a given temperament. When used with insight these temperaments may be wonderful to play with the right kind of music. So much so in fact that when you return to equal temperament after an extended time of playing in some mean tone temperament, say, you'll find the thirds in equal temperament out of tune and grating.

Most recordings of baroque harpsichord music are using a historical temperament. Go play a Chopin or Shostakovich piece in one of these temperaments, on the other hand, and it won't work. With Jazz, as usual, anything goes, in the right hands.
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#2401182 - 03/22/15 03:46 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Bochi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 3
I do agree about early keyboard instruments. My new LX15-e (so new I am still at the stroking it stage) has 14 grand pianos and 5 uprights but only two harpsichords and the dubious fortepianos. This seems like overkill. How about early Flemish virginals for playing Byrd and Bull, and a Clavichord too?

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#2401196 - 03/22/15 05:40 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 958
Clavichord would be difficult as it requires individual key aftertouch (pressing a key harder should increase pitch) wink .

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#2401247 - 03/22/15 10:39 AM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: PtJaa]
JEB NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/15
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By PtJaa
Originally Posted By JEB NYC
Once a DP manufactures has some good samples, the marginal cost of including those samples in every DP it makes from then on is effectively zero...

Nonsense, if you are talking about high quality sound - the memory that current chips utilise is not cheap. Currently the manufacturers struggle to include one good quality piano sample (i.e. not stretched, preferably unlooped sound with long sustain and sufficient number of dynamic levels).

According to the realsamples requirements page, their samples require 1 to 20 GB of disk storage, which is more than I was thinking when I wrote that. Still, I can go to Amazon and buy a 120 GB solid state drive at retail for $52.99, and a regular 1 TB hard drive for about the same price. (I'm not sure which are currently used in DPs). So memory costs aren't a big factor, at least on the high end. And every year memory is going to get cheaper, so in a few years including additional high quality samples will be close to free.

Of course, by the same logic, extra samples were much more expensive in the past, so I guess that could have something to do with the lack of historical keyboard sounds up until now. Still, if you are going to give us 14 grand pianos and 5 uprights, is including a couple of historical sounds, in more or less the same quality range as the others, really too much to ask?

(BTW, is there a standard way to link to someone else's post in these forums, the way I linked to Bochi's comment about grands and uprights just now? I can do it by hacking the URL, but usually there is a "permalink" or something that gives you a URL you can cut and paste.)

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#2401327 - 03/22/15 03:07 PM Re: Why don't DPs have more historical keyboard sounds? [Re: JEB NYC]
Bochi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 3
I should have corrected myself: I forgot that the 14 grands include the three fortepianos (normal mellow and bright) and the two harpsichords (single and doubled).

That's still nine "grands" and five uprights, not to mention lots of electric keyboards. But no virginals...

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