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#2401647 - 03/23/15 11:57 AM YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
Hello,

I'm a beginner. I've played piano in school, but that was 10 years ago. So I want to purchase one and learn again. I had an upright, classical piano back then, but I really hated it, because it had to be tuned every 6 months or so. My teacher would not allow me to play if not tuned.

To the point:
LCD screen and lots of sounds and synths or a more classical look, possibly even a better quality? The YDP 142 also has pedals.

I want to play classical pieces, so I don't need many sounds. Just a grand piano and a harpsichord will be fine.

They're both the same price (800 EUR).

There's also a YDP-162 for 1000 EUR. Is it worth it?

Thanks in advance!



Edited by rowny (03/23/15 11:58 AM)

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#2401723 - 03/23/15 04:18 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4199
Loc: Northern England.
If you don`t want extra sounds and stuff, then you won`t want the DGX650. The piano on it will be the same as that on the YDP 142. Small speaker output, but you shouldn
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"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2401933 - 03/24/15 05:06 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
I'll probably play on headphones most of the time...
How about the YDP-162 ?

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#2401950 - 03/24/15 06:14 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1291
Loc: Sweden
Get YDP-162 rather than YDP-142. The 162 has the better action, GH (Graded Hammer) but the 142, as well as DGX-650, Graded Hammer Standard, GHS, which is lighter. If it were for nothing else, it's worth the extra 200 euros.

Edit The YDP-162 also has better speakers, another plus for it.


Edited by TheodorN (03/24/15 06:17 AM)
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#2402032 - 03/24/15 10:12 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
Thanks!

I have noticed from online videos that Yamaha's have somewhat brighter sound. I also have the Ivory plugin with Yamaha, and it also sounds very bright and I don't like it. Is it the same on their digital pianos? I strongly prefer darker, warmer sound, like from a Steinway.

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#2402041 - 03/24/15 10:29 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
Octaves_Up Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/10/15
Posts: 33
I have a ydp-142 that I'm trying to get rid of, so maybe my opinion isn't the most unbiased here, but I really dislike the action on it, and I say that as someone who plays entirely classical/romantic era music.

Its incredibly light, and even getting a P sound is tough, let alone a PP. The keys are also very noisy, so much that I can hear them through headphones!

But maybe I'm just spoiled by my acoustic piano.

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#2402044 - 03/24/15 10:40 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1291
Loc: Sweden
Yes, the Yamahas are said to have a brighter sound generally, I had a Yamaha P85 once, and didn't feel it was too bright, but each to their own. Come to think of it, Grand Piano 2 was a bit on the brighter side, but I always used the first (main) voice. I don't know the Ivory plugin, I'm assuming it's not the same as the Ivory software pianos.

Sometimes the settings can be changed to make the piano voices sound brighter or darker, for example my Casio PX-5S, which has a socalled Grand Piano Dolce and Grand Piano Mellow, voices I think I even like more than the main Grand Piano Concert voice. So check if the voices of the YDP-162 can be "tweaked" to your preferences. The best thing is to visit a store, try some pianos, and ask about things like the number of voices, and if they can be changed easily or not. Depending on your budget you may also want to consider some models from Roland or Kawai.

Lastly, there are the so called software pianos, or VSTs. Pianoteq, Garritan CFX (which is actually sampled from a Yamaha and consequently quite bright, but it's said to be very tweakable) Ivory American Concert D, and Galaxy Vintage D, the last two sampled from Steinways, so you may prefer them. If you get a software piano, you just need a controller piano, the YDP-162 might even be great as such.
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#2402051 - 03/24/15 10:57 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
I see people here like the Kawai ES100?

Store does not offer testing, but I can return the piano within 30 days. Still, I'd like to skip that.

Software controller is a yes, but then I'll have to purchase the plugin, which is about 300$.

I want to play classical (Mozart, Beethoven, Bach especially). No pop.


Edited by rowny (03/24/15 10:58 AM)

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#2402052 - 03/24/15 11:00 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4199
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By rowny
Thanks!

I have noticed from online videos that Yamaha's have somewhat brighter sound. I also have the Ivory plugin with Yamaha, and it also sounds very bright and I don't like it. Is it the same on their digital pianos? I strongly prefer darker, warmer sound, like from a Steinway.


Garritan CFX will give you a beautiful sound with anything you play it on. Trouble is, the computer requirements are high . . . .Don`t know how they are for Galaxy D but that sounds good too.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2402077 - 03/24/15 11:53 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 218
Loc: Ohio, USA
Note that the brightness can be adjusted with various piano settings, and is highly dependent on your speaker or headphone setup. You can use darker sounding speakers to help negate the brightness. But ultimately Yamaha does have a brighter sound.

The GH key bed is substantially better than the GHS key bed. There is an extra contact point which virtually eliminates 'slop' so with the GH you don't really feel like you're playing plastic like you do with the GHS.

The sound will be different coming from the on-board speakers, due to size, power, and location of the speakers. Even if they are the same piano sample.

I played both a couple of times this week. The Arius presents more like an acoustic, at least to me (look/feel/etc). That being said, the DGX is a lot of fun to play especially when you're starting out. It has a lot of great features, I personally like the sound (particularly the stereo sustain Yamaha uses), and I would have fun with the other music making features and sounds. It is certainly not a bad purchase if it does what you want it to do.

I like the classic look, a lot. My MP10 doesn't have it quite so much, but it certainly feels like a digital piano as opposed to a keyboard.

Kawai has a warmer sound and a really nice action. Check out the ES (ES7 or ES100, I forget). Also the CN32-CN34 series for a more traditional console look.

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#2402094 - 03/24/15 12:33 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1291
Loc: Sweden
Just so there is no misunderstanding, a software controller doesn't necessarily require that you get a software piano. You can use any digital piano, as a controller. It can have no internal voices, like the Kawai VPC1, and it can have hundreds of it's own voices, like the Yamaha DGX-650. That's more what I meant, having a VST/software piano as an alternative, not the only option.

It's just that if you go the software route, you can get away with buying a less expensive digital piano, even a Casio PX-150, for about $500. Some users here have done that, others have even paired software pianos with the very top end instruments, like Roland V-Piano and Yamaha AvantGrand. Even though $200 - $300 software pianos are quite a sum for many, it pales in comparison to what these high end models cost. Still, that tells me that owners of the aforementioned pianos, consider the software pianos even better sounding than their high quality instruments, or at least not worse.
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#2402135 - 03/24/15 02:14 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: Joe Garfield]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4199
Loc: Northern England.
"The GH key bed is substantially better than the GHS key bed. There is an extra contact point which virtually eliminates 'slop' so with the GH you don't really feel like you're playing plastic like you do with the GHS."

I don`t think I`ve ever played an acoustic piano that has no `slop` or, bounce . . . you can hit, or flick the keys instead of pressing them, if need be. That`s what I do on my GHS . .


Edited by peterws (03/24/15 02:14 PM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2402169 - 03/24/15 03:51 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 218
Loc: Ohio, USA
If you compare the GH and GHS to an acoustic, you will find the GH has a much more similar amount of play or slop to the acoustic than the GHS does, especially over time. Again I'm not trying to say the GHS is a bad key bed, just that the GH is justifiably an 'upgraded' key bed.

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#2402195 - 03/24/15 04:35 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
Guys, I'm a beginner at best. All I remember is how to read notes and what a metronome is. I'm pretty sure I won't feel the difference, but I still want the best value for the money. So if it's worth the 200 EUR for YDP-162, well, fine. I'm not buying pianos every day.
I'm also considering the Kawai ES100, but I don't quite like it's plastic portable look. With stand and pedals it's around 900 EUR. Some excellent review though.
Also I hope the difference between the piano gloss and matt YDP-162 is purely cosmetic? The difference is 300 EUR!

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#2402196 - 03/24/15 04:37 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: Joe Garfield]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4199
Loc: Northern England.
Most here do prefer GH. This comes in many forms IMO. That on the CVP 609 was wonderful. That on the CVP 601 was not. Wonder what the difference is. . . seems like its down to individual models every time.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2402206 - 03/24/15 04:56 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: peterws]
Bellicapelli Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 59
Loc: Tuscany Italy
Hello,

If you want to study and play just classical piano, a dgx with all the accompaignment crap could not just reveal superfluous, but even distract you from the hard (though rewarding ) way you have to face.

So, assuming that you want a plain piano, last saturday i test played both ydp142 and 162 side by side, and the second is noticeably better both in sound ( probably just due to the much better amplification ) and action. I got the impression of good and enjoyable piano for the price.

But then again, Yamahas deliberately do sound brighter ( even among acoustics ) and this disturbs me just in classical / romantic repertoire, so that is the reason why in the end personally i would probably not chose the Yamaha.


Edited by Bellicapelli (03/24/15 05:00 PM)
_________________________
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#2402209 - 03/24/15 05:10 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
Jasper E. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/15
Posts: 32
Originally Posted By rowny
Guys, I'm a beginner at best. All I remember is how to read notes and what a metronome is. I'm pretty sure I won't feel the difference, but I still want the best value for the money. So if it's worth the 200 EUR for YDP-162, well, fine. I'm not buying pianos every day.
I'm also considering the Kawai ES100, but I don't quite like it's plastic portable look. With stand and pedals it's around 900 EUR. Some excellent review though.
Also I hope the difference between the piano gloss and matt YDP-162 is purely cosmetic? The difference is 300 EUR!


Check out Kawai KDP-90 / Kawai CN-14 then? (as far as I know the two differ in colour and in sales distribution channels)
_________________________
Kawai KDP-90

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#2402212 - 03/24/15 05:20 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
There's a shop in Netherlands that has it...845 EUR. Is it the same as ES100 ?

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#2402268 - 03/24/15 08:36 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10256
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By rowny
There's a shop in Netherlands that has it...845 EUR. Is it the same as ES100 ?


The KDP90 is a console digital piano with built-in stand and pedals, while the ES100 is a slab-type digital piano, although stand and pedal accessories can be purchased separately.

While their functions are not identical, the main sound (Harmonic Imaging, 88-key sampling) and keyboard action (AHA IV-F) specifications are indeed the same.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2402361 - 03/25/15 06:53 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
Thank you James.

I found the Kawai CN-14. Are KDP90 and CN-14 identical? The logo seems different, also I can't see a red strip on the CN-14. Otherwise, they look the same.

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#2402599 - 03/25/15 08:59 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10256
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By rowny
I found the Kawai CN-14. Are KDP90 and CN-14 identical? The logo seems different, also I can't see a red strip on the CN-14. Otherwise, they look the same.


Yes, I believe these are the main differences.
In addition, the CN14 is sold in the Satin Black finish, while the KDP90 is sold in the Rosewood finish.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2404833 - Yesterday at 10:17 AM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
rowny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 8
CN-14 is on the way for 800 EUR including bench and headphones...I think it was a good deal...:)
I'll report when it arrives...

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#2404894 - Yesterday at 12:01 PM Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: rowny]
OneWatt Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 127
Loc: Mountain Time, USA
Originally Posted By rowny
Guys, I'm a beginner at best. All I remember is how to read notes and what a metronome is. I'm pretty sure I won't feel the difference, but I still want the best value for the money. So if it's worth the 200 EUR for YDP-162, well, fine. I'm not buying pianos every day.
I'm also considering the Kawai ES100, but I don't quite like it's plastic portable look. With stand and pedals it's around 900 EUR. Some excellent review though.
Also I hope the difference between the piano gloss and matt YDP-162 is purely cosmetic? The difference is 300 EUR!


@rowny -

I took note of your comment above and would share this...

Putting aside the technical differences between the GH and the GHS, the feel may or may not be an issue for you and the 200 EUR price difference is not insignificant (e.g., it could buy a LOT of music books and/or lessons!)

FWIW, a couple of years ago I bought my (adult) daughter a YDP-142 as a birthday present and she still absolutely loves it. She still plays it all the time, has friends over for sing-alongs, etc. The speakers in the YDP-142 are more than ample to fill her apartment with a nice sounding piano over the singing.

She is not a serious performing musician but really enjoys playing for her own relaxation and pleasure. So given your self-description, this model may be a good balance between price and performance for your needs. The additional 200 EU may not get you much of a difference in enjoyment.

Many of us on this forum are deeply into all this keyboard stuff and understandably our own preferences and priorities may not be the best roadmap for how you can best meet your own needs - especially if your piano playing will be more on the casual side.

Best wishes - OneWatt

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#2405155 - 1 minute 27 seconds ago Re: YAMAHA DGX-650 vs. YDP-142 Arius [Re: OneWatt]
Kawai James Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10256
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By rowny
CN-14 is on the way for 800 EUR including bench and headphones...I think it was a good deal...:)


I agree, that's a good deal. Congrats!

Originally Posted By OneWatt
...the 200 EUR price difference is not insignificant (e.g., it could buy a LOT of music books and/or lessons!)


I'm not sure how many lessons could be bought for 200 Euros, but I agree it's not an insignificant amount of money, and could be used for purchasing accessories such as headphones or indeed music books.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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