Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum kind to tuning pins?

Hello everyone.

Since this forum is full of kind members who answered all my questions, I'm asking 3 more:

1. It's a new upright piano (Yamaha U1). How can I do the tuning with NO harm to the pins?

2. I've got an extendable Schaff tuning lever (top of their line-up) which comes with a 5-degree head and #2 tip. Is it the most comfortable/safe degree? If not, what degree would you recommend for a comfortable/safe tuning of an upright?

3. What is the secret of a stable tuning? Is it only the notch back after a little sharpening?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Background:

I'm going to fine-tune some drifted unisons only. I have never tuned a piano but have been educating myself for a while (Youtube, books...etc).
the only reason I got a professional hammer is to guarantee the safety of my new piano pins, I paid much money (to hopefully get the honey).

Ulymoon

You are on the right track.

Accordeur,

Your answer is encouraging and makes me feel I'm ready. Thank you.

If you are comfortable removing the action and careful not to damage damper felts etc.-it may be wise to find screwdrivers that will fit the action flange screws and tighten them gently but firmly. The Saudi Arabia climate being dry will result in the screws getting loose after a couple of months.

Good luck!

Are there any piano technicians in Saudi Arabia?

The tighter fitting tip will help. Make sure you place the hammer all the way to the bottom of the pin so it has a solid contact.

Tuning a few pins will not damage them. It is only multiple tunings over many years that may round the edges. But cheap hammer tips tend to round faster than the pins due to the softer metal. I imagine the harder high quality steel could do more damage (with multiple tunings) if it was not set properly on each pin.

That's my setup. It's worked for years for me.

Try it and see if it works:

1. Turn a pin using that technique. Does not matter if the string is left in tune. Then measure and record the pitch of that single string.

2. Play the note three times, fff.

3. Measure and record the string's pitch after the hard blows. It should not drift more than 0.9 cents, and preferably much less. Less than 0.3 cents is great.

Try this method on a few different pins. Check the length of the string between the tuning pin and the upper termination point. (V-bar or agraffe). This is sometimes called the non-speaking length or NSL. Choose a pin with a long NSL, and one with a short NSL.

If you have tight pins that feel a bit jumpy, you may try this:

For any pin foot orientation, there is a range of pitches that will be stable. This is because of the friction at the v-bar or agraffe. If your desired pitch is above or below this range (which you can confirm because you try to gently lean and twist the pin in the direction you want to pitch to go, without turning the foot, and while the pitch may change, it goes back when you remove the lever force, or doesn't move at all), then you must turn the pin foot to get the desired pitch to stay.

If the pins are tight and jumpy, you may have extreme difficulty getting the pin foot to move the tiniest amount you need. Try an impact or impulse technique:

Impact: Get a loose fit on the pin with the tip. Rock the lever back and forth so that the tip seems to "impact" the pin. Be very sensitive to any feeling that the pin foot has moved. Then try again to lean/twist the pin/pitch in the desired direction.

Impulse: Same as impact, but not a loose fit. Just use an impulse of force, going from high to low, but always positive. Never going to zero like with the impact technique. As before, be very sensitive to any pin foot movement, and stop immediately and try to adjust the pitch with the gentle lean/twist.

If the pitch still doesn't stay or doesn't move at all, you will need to move the foot again.


Unisons are a great place to start. You can always mute them off if you can't get them to sound good. And then call the tuner.

IMPORTANT: Always make sure you are on the right pin. You should not have to move the pin more than 5 degrees. If you find you are moving the pin and hearing no pitch change, STOP! You are on the wrong pin and this is the most common error beginners make that results in broken strings.

You can also go flat first. This breaks any rust weld, but also allows for you to be on the wrong pin and loosen it instead of tightening it. You can loosen for quite a while, oblivious to your error, before you realize it. Then the only result would be a very low pitched, floppy string, but at least it's not broken.

Good luck. Have fun.

Thank you all. That's been really informative.

Ed McMorrow,

Thank you. Regarding piano techs. You can hardly find one. The Yamaha autherized dealer here in Saudi Arabia has only one technician who can do a full service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a manager, too busy to do servicing, but he promised that he would do a full sservice if I need, then he said: "when you ask me about regulation and voicing I thought that you were a concert pianist!!! You are, with due respect only an amateur, so do not worry, you won't need in 10 years' time."


!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They also have some tuners only, they're not capable of anything more than tuning and fixing a sticky key!!!!

Mark Cerisano,

Thank you... I really appreciate your generous feedback and good advice. Honestly, I think your feedback has been the best tuning lesson I've ever received (I have been researching piano tuning much and much online).

What do you mean by a tighter tip? Should I use #1 tip? Will it fit the pins of a Yamaha U1?

I think Mark just means a quality tip that fits snugly onto the pin. Cheaper tips are often loose and sloppy. I use a #2 on my Yamaha. I think a #1 might be a bit too small.

>he promised that he would do a full sservice if I need, then he said:

>when you ask me about regulation and voicing I thought that you were a concert pianist!!! You are, with due respect only an amateur, so do not worry, you won't need in 10 years' time

Wow so far for the service. I have my piano just over 5 years now and I had a good bit of regulation and voicing in that time. Things do wear (eg, piano gets brighter) and small irregularities may become annoying when a piece happens to emphasize a small issue in the piano.

-Ando-

-wouter79-

Thanks for joining the discussion here.

-Ando-

I thnik you're right. The #2 tip comes with the Schaff lever, so I suppose it is a good quality one.

-Wouter79-
You're dead right. I just didn't want to have a dispute.... The good thing about it is that if you really need adjustment then Saudi Yamaha will be committed to it (the law of commerce has been harsh on all dealers lately)...maybe it will take time and effort, but I know a guy who bought a Yamaha piano, and he had a problem with it that No guy working for the Yamaha dealer could solve.

After some time and effort, the guy managed to get the Yamaha authorized dealer respond. The dealer made a "Yamaha expert" fly from Dubai right to Saudi. The expert went right to the piano owner's home, checked the piano and fixed it in an hour or so! The piano is still working fine. It was on warranty, so that mate didn't pay any money. By the way, the warranty here is only 1 year!!!!!!

Mark Cerisano,

You said: "Impact: Get a loose fit on the pin with the tip. Rock the lever back and forth so that the tip seems to "impact" the pin. Be very sensitive to any feeling that the pin foot has moved. Then try again to lean/twist the pin/pitch in the desired direction."

This technique must be effective but wouldn't it hurt the pin or the pin hole?

You certainly know that tuning books always say "make sure the tuning lever has accurately fitted the pin ...etc."

A #2 but not all 2's are the same size. Also, the pins are tapered. A tight fit just means make sure the tip is all the way down unless you're using an impact technique. Not good to use that exclusively or even often. Only on particularly difficult pins. And don't wiggle back and forth violently.

(Thank you for the compliment)

Now, I got it.

Thank you.

That wasn't a compliment. It's true; your tuning advice is the best lesson I've ever had; it was to the point and very clear, many tuning lessons are not.