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What do you mean by a "canicule of a sound"? That's a new term to me.

Thanks.

My dictionary says it is the heatwave of sound from a Steinway piano L19.

well, a canicule is a heatwave, but not just a period of hot weather, but like a feeling that the warmth is wrapping you up, surrounding you, going right through you. I thought it was quite a good way to describe it, since I couldn't find an appropriate English term, I stole from the French.

Reading through the messages on this thread, I'm given to understand that the NYC and Hamburg instruments are, at last, or, alas, converging with respect to the execution of the basic designs.


Rims and bellies have been discussed as have various action bits including the religious arguments over whether softening a hard hammer is less than, equal to, or better than hardening a softer one.

Damper performance hasn't been discussed (in this thread) to my recollection, though I believe there are differences in the two designs. The most important thing there seems to be the quality of the damper felt though some techs seemed to have a special knack for trimming them with scissors to minimize the woosh.

I was wondering about another thing - the bass strings. Aren't there differences in the copper used to wrap the bass strings? the composition of the core wires themselves? How much, if anything, do those things add to the NY or Hamburg sound?

Finally - I would agree that prep by a great technician makes... a huge difference. Are we now saying that, with the convergence of the two great Steinway factory methods and designs, that we can take two Steinways, "same model", one from NY, one from Hamburg, give them to one of our great technicians to prep, and get IDENTICAL RESULTS, two pianos that SOUND and FEEL and LOOK the same?

Good Day to All.

It makes one wonder. In manufactuering widgets wholesale I want each one to be exactly like the others. When you pick up a Widgetron(tm) in China it's the same as in Canada. My question is even if they could would Steinway want every model to be exactly the same with no discernable differences? Every B would have the same tone and touch leaving the factory as every other B.

There are those who would never rebuild a piano because life is indeed a box of chocolates...yet would you order a new Steinway from the factory and trust they will send one you like? Now if everyone were the same?

Practically speaking though then what happens after the first year? Indeed pianos live a life of their own after leaving the factory and each experience is different. The result is an individual. Even if they were all the same originaly they would be much different years later.

Simply because pianos are made of wood, there absolutely will be variations between individual pianos, no matter who makes them. If someone perfects a carbon fiber piano, then perhaps you could trust that each copy would be identical in build.

It seems, though, that different manufacturers have different standards of consistency from piano to piano. Generally, the more modern the tooling and operations, the more consistent the pianos will be. I have found Faziolis and Shigeru Kawais to be consistently excellent.

Steinway has traditionally been considered one of the less consistent makes among the high-end manufacturers. There are various reasons, but a lot of them relate to the traditionalism at Steinway, and a general reluctance to modernize their manufacturing processes. This can lead to a factory that can make an outstanding piano or an unacceptable one.

From what I hear here and from others in the industry, Steinway is making a concerted effort to modernize and to standardize their practices, both intra- and inter-factory. I've heard that new Steinways are getting more consistent.

That said, I went to a Steinway dealer within the past year and played four Bs. Of the four, I would consider only one worth buying. The other three went from decent to almost terrible. The pianos had inconsistent tone and inconsistent touch. For a non-negotiable $95,000, I expect quite a bit more. Let's hope they get there.



Most people here would never buy a piano from any manufacturer without playing it first. Ordering a piano on spec from the factory is very risky. If you're willing to order from the factory, I would presume you're more interested in the piano as a piece of furniture or status symbol than as a musical instrument.

Steve

I think the quality of the tone regulator is more significant to what a pianist will hear and sense in a piano than subtle variations in the wood. There is no doubt a "gestalt" to each piano-but the most significant variable is the skill of and time allowed for tone regulation.

There are very real "differences" piano to piano in the way the string termination at the capo bar is shaped. This can greatly affect the quality of treble tone.

Hi John,

You are correct. Also, moving pianos across the ocean endangered them more at that time as well.

Your reasons were the primary reasons for the European facility though. Thank you for the post.

I think it a real shame that they are trying to homogenize the NY and Hamburg Steinways. No doubt the NY Steinways would benefit from the same QC, fit and finish of the Hamburgs, but the pianos should otherwise remain distinct with both having their own voice and touch.

The Indy 500 is now run with either a Chevy or Honda engine. They like to tell us these engines are based on your cars 2.2l using E85 fuel. Of course the chassis is custom made and the Chevy engine is from a custom shop in England. I believe while the Honda comes out of their California racing shop. Though highly modified with probably more non branded parts than "genuine" and then tuned into a racing machine by a separate team. No one from either company would ever tell you it was a Hond- or Chevwas. Nor would one ever be confused with your Accord. I wonder if Steinway has given any thought to opening up a Gibson like custom shop? What could be better than a visit to the Steinway selection room? A visit to the Custom shop. How about a Keith Jarrett edition? Or a version based on Horowitz's personal Steinway? Not only could you get more custom finishes, but other performance tweaks as well. Of course this would take major shift from their heralded delusion that they already make the best possible pianos in the history of the world. If you continuosly claim it, why not make every effort to produce one? I understand that efforts are being made to improve things, but that really is locking the barn door a century too late.


I believe this experience has been all too common and one I've shared at our local gallery, including a B that even had the manager stumped on why it sounded so bad.

It seems really strange to me, from the European side of the pond, to hear people talk so disdainfully about the Steinway piano. There are a couple of people on the forum who really like the Steinway, but the rest of the comments go from lukewarm to downright scathing. The only US Steinways I've ever played have been excellent pianos, but I haven't played all that many.

In my experience the only bad Steinways I've played are ones that have suffered improper maintenance. The same goes for some Bösendorfers and Blüthners here that I've played and found to be downright awful - and we're not talking old instruments - some of their new pianos over the past 15 years have fallen so wide of the mark. Yet these two makers have also given me some of my most joyous playing experiences.

Norbert - you said that you'd be interested to put two pianos of a different make - say a Boston and a Brodmann or a Steinway and an Estonia - side by side, both prepped to the highest degree possible and do a real comparison of them. I guess you mean similar to what Rich Galassini is doing with Piano Tastings (excellent videos). I would be interested to do that too, but I'd be interested to do that with instruments that had been in a music studio for 10 years too - the experiment would have to involve both instruments receiving proper care throughout the period they were in use. To be honest I couldn't speculate as to which instruments would be better although in the past, Hamburg Steinways have always done very well in practice rooms in conservatoires (by in the past - I graduated in 2002 from my Bachelors and 2006 from my Masters and there wasn't a fleet of pianos bought by the Conservatoires between my graduations).

I'd also be interested to take a NYC model B that someone didn't like - a new one I mean - have it properly prepped and possibly played in - and then take a cross section of people to review it properly. I'd like to see how many people thought it was really bad, and how many people thought it was beautiful. Actually it wouldn't have to be a model B - it could be any piano, but since we're talking about Steinways here it's on my mind. The people playing in the test would have to disclose their ability level and repertoire because these two things I think would affect the outcome of their conclusions. We might find that all the classical pianists liked it and all the jazz pianists hated it (or whatever), or we might find a totally mixed review with some loving and some hating it, or we might find a majority vote from everyone one way or the other.

I think it's the natural American way of responding, when someone (or a company) says, "our piano is the better than yours;" everyone else will instinctively say, "no it's not."

Steinway positions their piano as being the best of the best.....not just extremely good, but better than all the rest. And for a while, they were.

Yes, Steinway were the best for even much of my life. As late as 1999/2000 a Hamburg Steinway out-performed virtually every piano. At that time Blüthner hadn't yet moved into the level of refinement it has reached today, and even C. Bechstein was kind of an outsider that not many people paid much attention to, and Bösendorfer was virtually on its knees making beautiful pianos and then giving them away.

Fazioli wasn't well-represented here at that time and the pianos that were in this country weren't well prepared. The Chinese market had yet to offer a piano that could be taken seriously and Yamaha and Kawai were both excellent mid-range pianos but not particularly regarded as anything that could be called exciting (although, I have played quite a few older Japanese pianos that have been excellent). Boston, at that time, was something of a laughing stock amongst professional pianists, because the pianos frankly sounded awful, and Essex - well, nobody in the UK would seriously buy a piano that had Essex on the fall board - we'd think it had been spray-tanned and fitted with false fingernails whilst worrying about its VPL and wax line...

Nowadays things are very different of course, and it's time Steinway's marketing caught up with that.

Have you tried Forshey Piano?

If you are going to Europe to find a Hamburg Steinway, I suggest you stop at Steinway Hall in London, UK. They have an amazing collection of splendid instruments

I very much love Steinway pianos. What I complain about are very specific technical issues and unprofessional, even slanderous general marketing efforts against independent rebuilders.

If Steinway pianos were not ones I liked I would mostly ignore them. It is a measure of my esteem that I comment about relevant issues.

My last visit to the S&S dealer was November 2014. The S&S pianos were in good shape. The tech that worked there told me (and I probe these kinds of things) that required prep time went down from more than a day for the pianos in the past to around half a day (or on that order, per my impression).

That more recent experience was unlike my experience 1.5 years ago, when trying them out, it was clear to me the hammers were not optimized. At that time, playing the right hand runs in Fantaisie-Impromptu measures 7 & 8, I was wondering to myself, does my right hand still exist? I could hardly hear the money/killer octave playing how I usually balance the right and left hand key presses. So, that was a let down then.

In the more recent pianos, now that the regulation and evenness has been addressed, I was questioning the tone. Though I do not criticize it, it was difficult to judge - big room, carpets, young piano. On this last point, James Barron book, "Piano, The Making of a Steinway Concert Grand," he tracks a D that was made in NY and then given to C&A. He tracks opinions about it and descriptive words are given such as "has a little kick to it but does not have the ugliness to go along with it" and "a flower that has yet to bloom." So, it would seem time is also a factor for the tone to develop. This is difficult to judge in a new piano shop then.

Best wishes-