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#2403477 - 03/28/15 08:40 AM What monitors do you use with your MP11?
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I'm considering upgrading my monitors for my MP11. I know this has been asked before, but I want to be specific about the MP11 even though probably most good monitors will sound good for any DP. I just want to make sure that they work well with the range the MP11 is capable of. I'm especially concerned about the bass.

I'll probably be looking in the used market, but I am realizing that with the outlook of spending all summer listening to mine on the smaller monitors I currently have (Behringer MS-16s) is not doing the instrument any justice.

For price range, I'd say $500. The space I have it currently in FL is quite a small room, but in WI it's a decent 12 x 14' space, hardwood floors and high ceilings, and it opens up into another similar-sized room, so having a bit more power would be nice. Last summer I was cooped up in an attic while we remodeled the downstairs so the smaller speakers really didn't bother me much, but definitely want a change that will do justice to the MP11.
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#2403492 - 03/28/15 09:07 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Marko in Boston Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 1012
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Good Morning Morodiene

You can probably find some good used monitors for sure in the $500 range, but I would consider looking at the PreSonus Eris E8. From my experience with the Eris E5s, I find them to be an exceptional value for the price. They have a very clean and clear sound and seem to be a well made quality monitor. Also, a second choice might be the JBL LSR308 - some great reviews. Again, keeping your budget in mind.

Or you can consider 5"s with a sub woofer. But if you have the room the 8"s are the way to go and would compliment you MP11 nicely.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ErisE8
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS E5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA

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#2403495 - 03/28/15 09:16 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
PianoManChuck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/12
Posts: 166
Loc: Los Angeles, California
I'm using a pair of Yamaha MSP5's. They're the bi-amplified version of the old Yamaha NS10's that the majority of recording studio's used to mix the most famous recording artists in the industry.

67 Watts per monitor (40w in the bass, 27 in the treble). These are perfect for the MP11. I've been using these for over 10 years (yes, they've been around for a long, long time, and still being sold). You can pick up these monitors for around $249 online, probably even less if buying used.

I use a pair at my home studio, and another pair at my office studio. If you ever do any mixing, or make a recording of any kind... if you can get it to sound the best you can on these monitors, then the recording will sound fantastic on everything else (car speakers, hi fi, home audiophile systems, PA's, everything)! Its built for mixing, but does a super, super job as studio monitors.

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#2403510 - 03/28/15 10:22 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Chuck, that's great they can also be good for mixing. I was also going to look into some speakers for that purpose as well, so even better that they can do double duty! I'll definitely be on the look-out for those.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2403548 - 03/28/15 12:15 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Marko in Boston
Good Morning Morodiene

You can probably find some good used monitors for sure in the $500 range, but I would consider looking at the PreSonus Eris E8. From my experience with the Eris E5s, I find them to be an exceptional value for the price. They have a very clean and clear sound and seem to be a well made quality monitor. Also, a second choice might be the JBL LSR308 - some great reviews. Again, keeping your budget in mind.

Or you can consider 5"s with a sub woofer. But if you have the room the 8"s are the way to go and would compliment you MP11 nicely.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ErisE8


Thanks, Marko. I'll definitely look into the Eris. Do you think these would work well for mixing also? Do you recommend 8" vs. 5" like the Yamaha MSP5 Chuck recommended?

edited to add: I'm wondering if the 8s might be too big, but the E5s might be just the right size considering I'm not in a largish space in either place.


Edited by Morodiene (03/28/15 12:21 PM)
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2403613 - 03/28/15 02:37 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Charles Cohen Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1775
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
An on-going thread on this question (though not specifically about the MP-11):

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/992878-jbl-lsr-305-vs-presonus-eris-e5.html

My bias is still that a 5" woofer is too small for good piano bass. A pair of 5" monitors with a small subwoofer would probably work fine, though.

. Charles

PS -- I'll be playing keyboard bass tonight, through my EV ZXA1 (8" woofer). If it survives, I'll pin a medal on it.

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#2403651 - 03/28/15 03:51 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
So it sounds like either go with 8" monitors or get 5" with a subwoofer? Is there any advantage to getting 8" over " + subwoofer (or vice versa)?
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2403699 - 03/28/15 05:50 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Charles Cohen Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1775
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
One subwoofer, and a pair of 5" speakers, should be a bit lighter, and cheaper, than two 8" speakers.

Aside from that, the setups should behave similarly. There's not much directionality in low bass sounds; the "stereo effect" comes from higher frequencies.

One other possibility, especially if you do a lot of music away from home (which I think you do):

. . a small powered PA system.

Yamaha made a 300-watt Stagepas powered PA system (out of production now) -- stereo speakers (8" woofers, small horn-loaded tweeters), and a mixer/amp (3 or 4 mic inputs, and a few instrument/line inputs). It's rather clunky, but it integrates nicely, and sounds good. No problem with bass, or volume, there. One of those, used, ought to be within your budget. It's been replaced by higher-power, more-expensive models.

The PA speakers tend to be built tougher than "monitor speakers". The speaker cones are always protected by a grille, and you can thrown them into a car without worrying.

Fender ("Passport") and Samson make similar systems. Whomever runs the sound system in your church might be helpful.

. Charles

Edit -- yes, the used ones are within budget:

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm

and search on keyword "stagepas"


Edited by Charles Cohen (03/28/15 06:01 PM)

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#2403710 - 03/28/15 06:12 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Marko in Boston Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 1012
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By Morodiene
So it sounds like either go with 8" monitors or get 5" with a subwoofer? Is there any advantage to getting 8" over " + subwoofer (or vice versa)?




Hmm, I can not answer if there is any advantage to getting 8" over 5" + subwoofer (or vice versa). My non-technical opinion is that I might consider going with 8"s if I had to do it over. As much as I love my set up, I could have saved a few $$ and skipped the T10 sub woofer (or go with T8). Only because the T10 is almost too much power. So I find myself practicing "sometimes" with it off or turned down only because the 5"s are so good alone. The 8"s might eliminate the need for a sub altogether. However, it is truly an AWESOME playing sensation w/ my sub as I get that soundboard-like resonance to the ear and touch. Perfectly clear lows - never muddy or boomy. Not sure if I can get that feeling with 8"s alone. Plus, I love the fit of my setup. Tough call.

Edit: this is just my personal experience. PianoManChuck is certainly a professional's experience. Plus he is an MP11 owner. So, you might already have your answers.



Edited by Marko in Boston (03/28/15 06:20 PM)
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS E5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA

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#2403835 - Yesterday at 03:11 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Charles Cohen Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1775
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Marko --

Your signature line says that you have a Stagepas 400i.

Have you tried playing the DP through that, instead of the Presonus speakers?

. . . And if so, how did it sound?

Thanks --

. Charles

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#2403888 - Yesterday at 07:07 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Charles Cohen]
Marko in Boston Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 1012
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By Charles Cohen
Marko --

Your signature line says that you have a Stagepas 400i.

Have you tried playing the DP through that, instead of the Presonus speakers?

. . . And if so, how did it sound?

Thanks --

. Charles



Hi Charles, Yes, I use the StagePas all the time with RD and ES7 and sound quality is excellent. I just never use it at home, but would actually work nicely for a good size living room. It's a bit overkill for my little house. Plus, I prefer the accuracy and directional sound of studio monitors when practicing as they clearly point out all my sloppiness. I would certainly use the SP400 for entertaining over studio monitors. Also, the on board mixer and effects are excellent which is a bonus if you like to tweak.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS E5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA

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#2403937 - Yesterday at 10:58 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Charles Cohen Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1775
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Marko --

Thanks. I tried a Stagepas 300 once, with my PX-350 for an evening, and was impressed. But I never used it with Pianoteq, which would be a bit more demanding (and revealing).

My only beef with the Stagepas is that there's no "Aux FX" loop in the mixer. Since I never use effects, I don't know why that should bother me, but it does.

. Charles

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#2404040 - Yesterday at 04:04 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Charles Cohen]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Charles Cohen
One subwoofer, and a pair of 5" speakers, should be a bit lighter, and cheaper, than two 8" speakers.

Aside from that, the setups should behave similarly. There's not much directionality in low bass sounds; the "stereo effect" comes from higher frequencies.

One other possibility, especially if you do a lot of music away from home (which I think you do):

. . a small powered PA system.

Yamaha made a 300-watt Stagepas powered PA system (out of production now) -- stereo speakers (8" woofers, small horn-loaded tweeters), and a mixer/amp (3 or 4 mic inputs, and a few instrument/line inputs). It's rather clunky, but it integrates nicely, and sounds good. No problem with bass, or volume, there. One of those, used, ought to be within your budget. It's been replaced by higher-power, more-expensive models.

The PA speakers tend to be built tougher than "monitor speakers". The speaker cones are always protected by a grille, and you can thrown them into a car without worrying.

Fender ("Passport") and Samson make similar systems. Whomever runs the sound system in your church might be helpful.

. Charles

Edit -- yes, the used ones are within budget:

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm

and search on keyword "stagepas"


Charles, I actually own a Stagepas already. I'm using it for when I play or sing elsewhere, and I am using them for lack of something better right now for mixing, but obviously that's not an ideal for that. I do love the unit for performing though...it sounds great!
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2404142 - Yesterday at 11:10 PM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Dan Clark Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 179
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Morodiene,

I have a slightly different view. I have two KRK Rokit5's plus the Rokit 10" sub-woofer. The sound is decent, but if I were to do it over, I'd make two changes.

First, I would research a different brand. Perhaps the Presonus.

Second, I would forgo the sub-woofer and get two 6" or 8" speakers instead. Even after tweaking the sub-woofer settings extensively, it overpowers that piano sounds. Right now, the sub-woofer is completely unplugged, with the signals going straight into the Rokit5's.

Regards,

Dan.


Edited by Dan Clark (Yesterday at 11:11 PM)

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#2404222 - Today at 04:49 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
sandalholme Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 811
Loc: Dorset, UK
I am happy with the Presonus Eris 5s with my ES7. Interesting that people seem to place the monitors facing the player. Mine are tucked away inside (and touching) the stand, facing outwards on a sprung wooden floor, thus, I believe, transmitting some resonance up towards me. (Not as much as I got in the same place with the Kawai RX2!) No problems with weak bass. Transferring recordings to my floorstanding Monitor Audio domestic speakers, having added some room ambience - I play Pianoteq 5 with no reverb - the sound is a little more civilised - the 5s are quite clinical - but no significant increase in bass. Listening to PT playback from about 25 feet away to judge my playing is helpful: some natural room resonance and a sense of listening to a clean, fairly bright small to medium-sized grand. I also play software harpsichord and organ - here the 5s produce a lovely sound, with ample bass from a 1624 Ruckers, just not quite as open as the real thing. (Many people are not aware just how resonant the bass is on a good acoustic harpsichord) Obviously large organs would be a different matter, but as I tend to play a 1741 Dutch single manual organ, there is no problem here either.

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#2404290 - Today at 08:49 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Dan Clark]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Dan Clark
Morodiene,

I have a slightly different view. I have two KRK Rokit5's plus the Rokit 10" sub-woofer. The sound is decent, but if I were to do it over, I'd make two changes.

First, I would research a different brand. Perhaps the Presonus.

Second, I would forgo the sub-woofer and get two 6" or 8" speakers instead. Even after tweaking the sub-woofer settings extensively, it overpowers that piano sounds. Right now, the sub-woofer is completely unplugged, with the signals going straight into the Rokit5's.

Regards,

Dan.
Interesting...I had heard good things about the Rokits too, so I'm surprised you're not happy with them. Reading up I hear a lot of good things about JBL LSR 305s over the Presonus for that price point.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2404375 - Today at 11:15 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Dan Clark Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 179
Loc: Bellevue, WA USA
Originally Posted By Morodiene
Originally Posted By Dan Clark
Morodiene,

I have a slightly different view. I have two KRK Rokit5's plus the Rokit 10" sub-woofer. The sound is decent, but if I were to do it over, I'd make two changes.

First, I would research a different brand. Perhaps the Presonus.

Second, I would forgo the sub-woofer and get two 6" or 8" speakers instead. Even after tweaking the sub-woofer settings extensively, it overpowers that piano sounds. Right now, the sub-woofer is completely unplugged, with the signals going straight into the Rokit5's.

Regards,

Dan.
Interesting...I had heard good things about the Rokits too, so I'm surprised you're not happy with them. Reading up I hear a lot of good things about JBL LSR 305s over the Presonus for that price point.


Morodiene,

I bought the Rokits for pricisely that reason - good reviews. Without the sub-woofer, the Rokit5's sound a bit thin. With the sub-woofer, the sound is less thin, but the sub-woofer overpowers the monitors. I've not found the settings that will provide a nice, balanced, full sound.

Part of the issue may be placement for the monitors and sub-woofer. That said, there are very limited placement options and even there it's pretty much limited to moving the sub-woofer. And that would require running long wires and drilling holes in the family room Oak floor. I.e. major hassle. And then I don't have a lot of confidence that the sound would improved substantially.

Using 6" or 8" Rokit monitors alone would probably be better. I'm just questioning how much better. I.e. at that price point, are they the best combination of size, sound quality, and price?

Right now, I'm stuck with what I have. Maybe next year...

Regards,

Dan.

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#2404380 - Today at 11:23 AM Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Dan Clark]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12558
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By Dan Clark
Originally Posted By Morodiene
Originally Posted By Dan Clark
Morodiene,

I have a slightly different view. I have two KRK Rokit5's plus the Rokit 10" sub-woofer. The sound is decent, but if I were to do it over, I'd make two changes.

First, I would research a different brand. Perhaps the Presonus.

Second, I would forgo the sub-woofer and get two 6" or 8" speakers instead. Even after tweaking the sub-woofer settings extensively, it overpowers that piano sounds. Right now, the sub-woofer is completely unplugged, with the signals going straight into the Rokit5's.

Regards,

Dan.
Interesting...I had heard good things about the Rokits too, so I'm surprised you're not happy with them. Reading up I hear a lot of good things about JBL LSR 305s over the Presonus for that price point.


Morodiene,

I bought the Rokits for pricisely that reason - good reviews. Without the sub-woofer, the Rokit5's sound a bit thin. With the sub-woofer, the sound is less thin, but the sub-woofer overpowers the monitors. I've not found the settings that will provide a nice, balanced, full sound.

Part of the issue may be placement for the monitors and sub-woofer. That said, there are very limited placement options and even there it's pretty much limited to moving the sub-woofer. And that would require running long wires and drilling holes in the family room Oak floor. I.e. major hassle. And then I don't have a lot of confidence that the sound would improved substantially.

Using 6" or 8" Rokit monitors alone would probably be better. I'm just questioning how much better. I.e. at that price point, are they the best combination of size, sound quality, and price?

Right now, I'm stuck with what I have. Maybe next year...

Regards,

Dan.
Is your room treated at all? That might be a better alternative to buying something else, and may resolve your issue. I know next to nothing about treating a room, only that it plays a huge part in how we perceive the sound.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



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#2404408 - 20 minutes 17 seconds ago Re: What monitors do you use with your MP11? [Re: Morodiene]
Charles Cohen Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1775
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
[quote] . . .
I bought the Rokits for pricisely that reason - good reviews. Without the sub-woofer, the Rokit5's sound a bit thin. With the sub-woofer, the sound is less thin, but the sub-woofer overpowers the monitors. I've not found the settings that will provide a nice, balanced, full sound. . . . [/quote

FWIW --

I once read that the right setting for a subwoofer is just below the point where you notice that it's turned on. If you can hear it, it's too loud.

If it won't go soft enough -- limited range on the controls -- consider putting a resistive pad into the audio line to the subwoofer. Or just add a variable resistor, or a switched fader box (if such a thing exists).

. Charles

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