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#2405062 - Yesterday at 06:31 PM Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585?
eclectic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 3
Loc: San Francisco Bay area, Califo...
Basically, MIDI, MIDI-over-USB, or maybe Wi-Fi?

I know I could go MIDI-to-MIDI and that has the advantage of no ground loops but the disadvantage of requiring a MIDI dongle for the PC.

I think CLP-585 and other Clavinovas might have MIDI-over-USB. Has anyone had any luck with this? What PC software are you using that recognizes the MIDI-over-USB messages? That said I have not seen any documents from Yamaha that specify that Clavinovas are compatible with the USB's standard for MIDI implementation.

There is also the USB-to-Wi-Fi dongle that Yamaha sells - maybe eliminating need for any other cabling. Seems to be mostly for iPad apps but...The connection manual for the dongle (Yamaya UD-WL01) shows a picture of a Clavinova connecting via Wi-Fi to a notebook computer, iPhone, and iPad. The picture of the notebook computer gets my hopes up somewhat. What are the capabilities of a Clavinova-to-computer connection over Wi-Fi? Is using Wi-Fi to control a PC-based virtual piano a possibility?

People touched on the issue in this thread
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2400325/Re:_Yamaha_Clavinova_CLP_585.html
But I don't see a definite answer there about USB and nothing about the Wi-Fi.

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#2405068 - Yesterday at 06:52 PM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 330
The quick and easy way is to just use the USB port. Your PC has one, your DP has one, done. You would use the USB to Host port, BTW. The other USB connector is for a thumb drive.


Wifi MIDI s#cks - sorry to the wifi MIDI fans, but it does.

If the 585 is class compliant MIDI (which the manual suggests it does with the lack of information it gives) then you don't even need to install a driver. Windows or Mac OS will recognize the piano when you make the USB connection.

BTW, congratulations on your acquisition of a CLP-585, it's lovely isn't it?





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#2405072 - Yesterday at 07:00 PM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4036
Loc: North Carolina
Yamaha offers a driver that makes your piano look like a MIDI device over USB. (Unlike other brands, the Yamahas require that driver.)

With that in place, any piano or DAW software will "see" the piano. Just select "Clavinova1" in the DAW's MIDI-selection menu. (You can download that from Yamaha ... but didn't your piano come with that driver on a CD?)

But I don't recommend that approach. The problem is that the driver does not survive a sleep-wakeup cycle. Since I never want to shutdown my computer, I just put it in sleep mode overnight. But when I wake the computer, that MIDI driver chokes and won't revive unless I reboot. Not acceptable. (That was the story when I was running it on Windows XP. I don't know whether that holds true for Windows 7.)

Or you can just use straight MIDI. But in that case ... you have no place on the PC to plug in a MIDI cable. I chose to buy an external audio interface that includes the MIDI ports, as many (most?) of these boxes do. That box, in turn, plugs into the PC via USB. This interface box gives me a place to MIDI-connect the piano ... and it provides a superior audio interface.

The PC "sees" that audio box as:

(1) An audio interface. Now, in addition to the internal "Reaktek HD Audio" device, I have a "Presonus AudioBox" device. I choose the latter in the piano software's audio-device menu.

(2) A MIDI interface. It shows up as "Presonus AudioBox MIDI" device. I choose that in the piano software's MIDI-device menu.

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#2405073 - Yesterday at 07:06 PM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 330
Ah, MacMacMac. You are right.
The 585 needs a driver. Easy, follow the directions here in the:

Computer-related Operations Manual

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#2405088 - Yesterday at 08:22 PM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
eclectic Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/15
Posts: 3
Loc: San Francisco Bay area, Califo...
@MacMacMac and @ElmerJFudd - Wow, very helpful. Does anyone care care to say what software and what virtual pianos you have had best results via controlling with a Clavinova? I'm mainly interested in Windows but a MacBook is a possibility.

@MacMacMac, FWIW there was no CD-ROM in the box and the "included accessories" list does not include a disc.

@ElmerJFudd, thanks for the link to the computer operations manual - I hadn't seen that before. What problems did you encounter with MIDI over Wi-Fi? Bad news in a way, though it saves me from spending ~$120 on the adapter. As for the CLP-585 itself, everything that's living-room friendly in this price range has its plusses and minuses and I picked CLP-585 over the comparably priced Kawai and Roland units for the combination of feel plus the sound system.

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#2405093 - Yesterday at 08:48 PM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 330
Wifi midi is sluggish... No where near capable at the moment of delivering the low latencies you will get with the USB cable. In other words, you'll play a key in the CLP and wait a moment for the software piano to react.

A MacBook Pro is a great idea. You can use a PC laptop, but you'll have to install an ASIO driver and experiment a bit to get optimal performance. If you do go PC, spec at least as well as the MBP. i5 or i7 processor @ 2.7ghz or better with 8gb of ram and a 256 or 512mb SSD. Or if you go spinning hard drive, get a 7200rpm drive.

Some popular software pianos include Synthogy Ivory, Pianoteq 5, Ravenscroft 275.

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#2405146 - Today at 12:50 AM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 163
Loc: France
I connect my CLP150 in MIDI and back the PC to the CLP-150 in audio to get the sound come from the piano.

With USB, I have ground loop.

With both MIDI, I have ground loop. With only the piano to PC MIDI I could prevent ground loop.

I can also insert the PC to MIDI halfway and have no ground loops, but a functional link.
N

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#2405262 - Today at 08:33 AM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
MacMacMac Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 4036
Loc: North Carolina
You can download the driver ...
Originally Posted By eclectic
@MacMacMac, FWIW there was no CD-ROM in the box and the "included accessories" list does not include a disc.
... but I've just now read the CLP-5xx manual, and it's ambiguous on the subject of the driver. It seems to say that you might need the driver, or you might not ... depending on your computer. Not very helpful.

(My piano is a CLP-2xx series. The manual is pretty clear: You must use the Yamaha driver.)

Anyway, the driver is a free download. So if you connect the piano to the PC, and the piano software cannot "see" any MIDI device, they install the Yamaha driver and see if that fixes things. (But I'd still prefer to skip the USB/driver issue and instead use a proper MIDI interface, for reasons I gave earlier.)

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#2405264 - Today at 08:40 AM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 330
It's tricky to nail down the source of a ground loop issue though. I don't think it's fair to say that if you are experiencing a ground loop problem using USB on your CLP-150 with your PC that eclectic is going to experience the same. This happens more typically because there is an electrical problem in the home or in the design/build of your PC. Also, many users don't run into it unless they are also running audio back to the digital piano's aux inputs.

So, I wouldn't worry about solving that problem unless it actually occurs. Cross that bridge when you get to it.

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#2405270 - Today at 08:52 AM Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 163
Loc: France
I was perhaps not clear : all ground loops noise were heard with an audio link from the PC to the piano.

The original poster may not have such problems, but if he has, knowing a mean to avoid them could be usefull.

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#2405277 - 52 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 330
In your situation there are a few things you could experiment with to try to eliminate your ground loop. Plugging your USB cable halfway in of course isn't the most ideal solution. It sounds like you are sending/receiving data but most likely aren't making contact with the 4-5V of power supplied by the computer. But this sounds like a recipe for shorting out your USB port at some point.

The topic has come up before in this thread, and others.

Hum with USB and Audio connection

A USB isolator ($28) worked for at least one of our members. Another solution would be a direct box (a bit more expensive for a good one) or using a MIDI interface or USB to MIDI cable instead (also not too expensive) instead of direct USB connection.

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#2405280 - 45 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: Best way to control a PC virtual piano from Yamaha CLP-585? [Re: eclectic]
Frédéric L Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 163
Loc: France
My ground loop noise was created also with both MIDI and no USB. It was one of the MIDI plug which was inserted half way in order to connect the 2 pin which send data to the piano and not the ground which seems not isolated in my Yamaha. Then the advice "use MIDI instead of USB" may not work.

However, knowing that USB isolators exist and are cheap is interesting.

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