Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Staffpad, what do you think? (on sale now)

It has just been launched and and is on sale for 2 days.
It's not cheap as an app, but this should be seen rather as a fully featured notation program, which works with a pen instead of mouse and keyboard (it comprises a sound library, no in-app purchases, everything is included in the purchase price)
It looks like a great software for those that write or edit scores, but the main obstacle is the the music industry is mainly oriented towards Apple products (Macs and Ipads) which lack a proper pen input. This app only works on Windows 8.1 touch devices with a pen and it was specifically designed with the Surface pro 3 in mind (the recently launched and cheaper 10.8 inches Surface 3 could be a good alternative too).
Here is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_PgKyqE3RU
And here is a full review: http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/staffpad-is-a-music-handwriting-app/
I would be interested in knowing some opinions, even if I know that not many people (yet) own a Windows tablet.

It looks great, but I wouldn't be able to use it until it came out in Android and it sounds like this guy just isn't interested in doing that.

Ya, the promo video suggests its real and working. 9 reviews on the Surface app store only giving it 3 our of 5 stars but I can't see the reviews and read why for some reason.

I'm impressed with what I've seen. Very strange choice to develop this specifically for Windows 8 and MS Surface first and apparently only. Perhaps the developer is being supported by Microsoft, which is not uncommon as they struggle to get developers to take their mobile strategy seriously with most users using iOS or Android.

Steinberg is also working on a new music notation software to compete with Sibelius and Finale. One would hope that Avid and MakeMusic (owners of Sibelius and Finale) are investing in this type of hand writing recognition technology. And web based, we have this the NoteFlight API which is working pretty nicely for a "in the browser" application.

As far as I know, the developer is not supported by MS, but MS is trying to leverage on this app to promote it's Surface line, which at the same time is a nice a free marketing campaign for the developer. This has happened with Apple too in the past.
The reason it was not made for Ipad is very simple and I said it. Apple products lack a proper pen input. This is probably due to Jobs making fun of using a stylus on a phone, which while it doesn't apply to tablets, has probably prevented Apple from developing an active stylus/pen input so far. As for Android, there are other problems that have prevented music app producers from developing apps for this OS. I own a galaxy tab with the Samsung pen as well as another Windows tablet with a Wacom stylus, and I have to say that the experience with the N-trig pen on the Surface pro 3 is by far the most convincing. Having said that I hope one day an Android version will be developed. Also, I believe the music community might be slowly moving towards Windows tablets if Apple doesn't come with a larger ipad with pen input.

Wow,
that looks really cool! I do wonder how well it works in practice. I agree that the surface pro was an odd choice. My impression is that the surface pro is able to handle quite a bit heavier loads than iPads or Android tablets. The surface pro is basically a full laptop in terms of specs, maybe the software needs the higher specs?

In any case, if I ever get a surface pro I'd definitely be interested in trying it out!

Requirement of Surface Pro also suggests that the app needs some horsepower and a more robust OS than RT.

Surface pro is not a requirement. It will work on any Windows 8.1 devices, but it doesn't make sense to use this on a non-touch device or without a pen. However this is not limited to Surface pro (1, 2, 3). There are other tablets and convertibles that have a pen and run Windows. However, cheap Windows devices do not have a pen or are too small. Also, Microsoft has recently released the successor to the Surface 2, which is no longer RT, but uses full Windows (Surface 3). This ones starts at $499 (but you have to buy the pen separately). However, there will certainly be discounts at some point, like for the Surface pro 3 (I bought mine for less than $700). I don't believe it's a matter of horsepower. I think Ipad Air would be more than capable if it had a pen input.

Right, I was mainly referring to the processor needs of the application - I'm guessing at least 4th generation Intel i3, i5, i7. There is so little info on this software at the moment. 9 reviews on the app store only giving it 3 stars out of 5, but I can't seem to find anyone writing why. Granted it's a first release, so if it gets adopted by the musical public they may be able to invest in bug fixes and features. Not sure how the approaching Windows 10 will affect their development but that's for them to figure out.

Hey, I wanted to chime in on this since I am a professional app developer.

Microsoft *absolutely* made a deal with the developer to make it exclusive. I know this, as Microsoft has attempted the same thing with me both in my own company, and the company i am co-founder of. If you agree to remain exclusive to their platform, they will offer you repeated free marketing (of course, only if your app is worthwhile).

Does this matter? Not at all, but it means we won't be seeing an iOS/Android version unless the microsoft one completely flops.

While I use Apple products near exclusively (I am an iOS dev after all), I actually think using a surface pro with sibelius (my software of choice) or any other composing software is an absolute delight. It gives you the power of proper composition software, with the natural ease of using a pen to write your music. Though full disclosure, I do not own a surface pro, or anything similar by microsoft. I have just had the pleasure of using a friends' surface to try it out.

My .02

It's normal that there is no review, it was launched yesterday... And there are not tons of musicians that do notation with an SP3 or similar tablet to make review. The guy that made the review I linked to had a pre-release version of it. As for the 4th gen i3 to i7, I am not certain it's a requirement, but it will certainly make everything faster and therefore nicer to use. If I buy it, I will test it in slower tablets to see how it performs.

This app looks terrific.

It's not my intention to hijack the thread, however I would like to point out that Kawai has a similar app available for iOS called 'Touch Notator'

http://cmusic.kawai.jp/products/tn/

The Japanese version was released last year, and an updated version for overseas markets is awaiting approval on the AppStore and should be available next week.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hi James, thanks for the info! As far as I understand this app uses the universal stylus that can be used on any touch device. My experience with this kind of input has been quite mixed and far from that of active pens (like the Samsung pen or the better N-trig pen). However, it would be worth trying. Do you know if there are going to be any trial/demo options for this app or what the price is going to be for the upcoming English version?

There are several active stylus pens on the market for iOS devices. I haven't studied it closely was just curious what would keep something like Staffpad or even Staffpad itself from being developed for iOS. Although the hardware isn't standard, the iOS accessories market is staggering and the user base isn't foreign to the concept of buying everything from a wireless page turning pedal to a microphone, printer, dock, watch, active tylus for their iDevice.

While there is no shortage of composition and scoring apps for iOS, the developers of Staffpad have done something nice here. I think in the long run they have two choices, port it to iOS or sit back and watch someone else beat them to it.

I don't know which model you are referring too, but in my opinion only lack of experience with both native and non native stylus pens can lead someone to say that the experience is anywhere close. It's night and day in terms of precision and how natural if feels... And I think the real game changer will be the introduction (this year, one day, never?) of a native pen in the future ipad air plus / pro. This would open a lot of new possibilities for iOS. I do hope Apple with catch up on this point as soon as possible.

The market is there, it's only a matter of time. Then the 300,000 illustrating, painting, drawing, etc. apps (am I exaggerating? I don't even know, but there are a lot of art apps) will add support and that will be that. Don't forget, it appears both MS and Apple are on a trajectory to merge their mobile and desktop OSes and when that happens the game changes again.

Funny, my developer friends often lament about coding and how it never ends. An application is never done. You just try and make it work at this moment in time. Something will break it (OS update, "standard" changes, etc.). So you just keep writing.

Back on topic, here are a few active stylus pens the google says work with iOS. Don't know if they are any good.:
DotPen
Lynctec Apex Stylus - not compatible iPad Air 2 for some reason
Joy Factory Pinpoint Precision Active Stylus
Cregle iPen 2
But a few look legit.

I'm looking forward to the iPad Pro if only for screen size and resolution. I'm not currently a huge fan of reading sheet music off the current iPads for piano. It's ok for like singers (choir octavo, lyrics, etc. where you can bring the device close to your eyeballs). But I wear glasses. And on a piano music stand it's still a bit too small for me, even with the sharp lines of the retina display. Ideally I'd like to see two letter size pages at a time like we do with "real" books. But I'll take one full size page if it becomes available. Others say they've had nice success with the various large screen Surface models and PDF music.

* bump *

I'm deciding between two new laptops; one with active pen touchscreen support, one without (HP Spectre x360 has it; Asus Zenbook Pro UX501VW does not, but is otherwise a superior [and more expensive] device [at least on paper...]).

I currently use Sibelius (can't use active pen with Sibelius...), and writing with a pen to "staff paper" electronically would be the sh!t.

Can anybody confirm if this StaffPad is worth getting, and, if so, whether it works on NON-SURFACE, active pen enabled, Windows touchscreen devices such as the aforementioned HP Spectre 360? Thanks...

No. It needs a stylus.

What do you mean? That StaffPad can ONLY be used on a Microsoft Surface? Or that it merely needs an "active pen")? Or something else? I am assuming that "stylus" and "active pen" are the same animal. Thanks!

Yes it needs an active stylus. So Thinkpad Yoga 260/460 as an example would work. I have a friend that has the Surface Pro and
staffpad works well with it. It is better than the yoga because of the screen ratio of 3:2 instead of 16:9 like a wide screen TV.

Meh. I bought a surface 3 just for StaffPad. The videos were so slick and the app looked so easy to use. I just had a horrible time with. Kept going back and forth with support but didn't get anywhere. I finally sold the Surface.