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Does anyone else notice the difference in tonality in the MP11 when using headphones vs XLR output to recording equipment? The headphones sound so full and lush while the direct output to a DAW is very mid intense and loses the balance. EQ is untouched and using the factory settings. I wonder if there are any known issues with the output circuitry. Sounds very different to me. I'd love to hear what you all think.

This is just a guess, but maybe the headphone output is modified to give a full frequency range sound in headphones. The XLR output will be a straight line out with no modification or tailoring. This can be done in the DAW with the array of VST processors that will be installed - EQs would be what's called for in this case.....though, of course that can, as you imply, be done in the MP11, anyway.

This does not directly answer your question, but I have used on occasion the 1/4 in audio output fed into my hi-fi system. I find the sound through my Paradigm loudspeakers to be actually quite nice, not the same palette as on my headphones, but nonetheless reasonably well rounded and balanced - actually very pleasant to listen to (at least to my ears).

I never did try the XLR outputs as of yet, so I cannot compare the two. Perhaps someone else will be able to chime in.

A lot of things impact how an instrument sounds once you get it recorded. One thing that you should be able to count on though is that the XLR's deliver the best quality signal the MP11 will deliver. There is a skill in recording, getting the levels correct among many other things.

What equipment are you using?

Question: Are you listening to the XLR>DAW recording using those same headphones? Or are you listening to this recording through studio monitors or other speakers?

- OneWatt

This is my suspicion as well. I can definitely shape the sound appropriately for my mix, but there is a distinct difference using the same headphones between different outputs. I just didn't expect it. Thanks.

As you work printing the hottest levels that you can while recording per your input meters, the piano's sound on playback will improve.

Good point.

Listening through headphones connected to the MP11 should sound the same as listening to a recording from the XLRs into a DAW through the same headphones.

Kind regards,
James
x

... and since they don't, this is why I asked the question. Nothing on the unit is touched. I use standard, factory, settings for each patch with no eq in the DAW. There is a significant change from headphone to audio out of XLR into DAW. I'm open to ideas. I would be curious if anyone else can duplicate the problem. If it's specific to my MP11, it needs to be address because its the primary keyboard in my studio.

I wonder what headphones it is model etc and what it is not connected directly to the piano but when recording. I doubt it would make that drastic a difference, but headphones impedance can very a bit in some cases over the frequency range and depending what they are connected to.

I don't know anything about the MP11 headphone out specs. Some headphones really benefit from a headphone amplifier and that will improve bass response in particular, so how easy they are to drive can be a factor. Some models I listened to like AKG open backs are quite sensitive to this, even though on paper their impedance it not awfully high, in the 60+ ohm range they do rather sound different with an without a headphone amp, yet some other makes of headphone the difference is negligible at best.

The really high impedance models can really suffer without significant drive ( input signal ) and lack roundness.

Try another set of headphones if you have them lying around and see if it happens to the same degree.

Thank you for clarifying - sounds like we all agree that the signal path as you've described it shouldn't make any difference. Using same headphones in both cases takes this out of the equation (unless the headphone jacks have different impedence specs, but let's assume not for now).

Further, let's assume you've got a true stereo signal coming out of the XLR outputs (not mono) which could otherwise clearly change the sound quality you're describing. Check the "audio out" to ensure you don't have it set to mono. Now on to more vexing issues...

I own an MP7 (not MP11) which does not have XLR outs. But now I wonder whether you may have (inadvertently of course) introduced any processing in either path that's missing in the other. Without running through the MP11 manual it's hard to know offhand just where and how various effects (like reverb) are introduced into the MP11 signal path (e.g., there may be utility/system settings to apply certain EFX on a pre- vs post-basis to the XLR signal path.)

More specifically, since XLR outputs are usually provided for running output into a mixing board for use with a house system or recording deck/DAW... and that turning OFF spatial effects from the keyboard (again, like reverb) is an important feature to avoid creating sonic "mush" when those effects are applied by the sound guy, or perhaps not applied at all due to the natural acoustics of the venue, there's the possibility that you have the MP11 set up (factory default?) to have the XLR outs NOT affected by those same pleasing effects you're enjoying when listening directly to the headphone output?

Again, without downloading an MP11 manual and doing a deep dive, I'm just guessing here. But this is one possibility that comes to mind. I would suggest checking whether the MP11 permits effects to be turned on/off to the XLR outputs and confirm whether they are indeed set differently for the two signal paths you are comparing.

- OneWatt

ps - next step would be to begin digging into what's going on in your DAW setup. Can you record other instruments into your DAW without detecting a similar change in sound quality, etc.?

I don't agree, signal path can make a big difference, absolutely, but so can headphone amps as mentioned. I think you're chasing a red herring thinking it's the balanced outs.

The moment you send the signal through another recording stage, everything points to how you did that and the headphone amp.

My apologies - I erroneously assumed agreement when it wasn't there, and you raise a valid point!

The OP describes a loss of "full and lush" sound, where the balance is missing. This description would seem to point more to a change in signal content, not just amp coloration or overall volume.

I'm also assuming the OP appreciates that his DAW/computer audio interface has a lot to do with things, and he's also using that same setup and headphone combination to listen to other sounds.

But your point is certainly well taken; these other components can do a great deal to change things at the end of the line. I've perhaps wrongly assumed he's aware of all that and has taken those factors out of the mix.

-OneWatt

Thanks for the comments. Since the audio becomes very mid intense, it makes me wonder. Headphones direct into the MP11 are nice and full. MP11 recorded via XLR outs (stereo) into interface/daw with no eq, compression, or effects of any kind (totally flat) produces a mid range intense audio. This is why I suspect different audio circuitry for the headphone jack vs the XLR outs. Sure, I can eq it all up just fine, but I was wondering if anyone else noticed the same thing and why the difference in the first place. Thanks again!

One Watt,

I appreciate your consideration of my viewpoint, thanks.

It seems a little funny to go on about the MP11's XLR's because that is the only thing that is known about the issue. A computer and a set headphones are being used as well and those are not described.


To the OP,

What sort of levels are you maintaining with you input meters when you record. What equipment are you using.

Questions like that. Do you use monitors as well?
What interface are you using?

Impedance really has the effect on signals that you describe.

Can you specify the whole chain ?
What soundcard do you have, what amplifier ? Have you tried with different cables ?
There's very little chance it's MP11 related imho, it must be something else in the chain.

Sure. XLR out to Focusrite OctoPre into iMac (Logic Pro X). Very straightforward. That's it.

which Octopre is it because when I look online I see no headphone connectivity on it for the one I find, so how are you connecting the headphones, and for that matter what headphone is it ?

use the TRS too, not the XLR's and make sure it's padded correctly and that you have healthy meter levels.
People will say the TRS and XLR's are the same but I always will use the TRS for line, too many problems with recording not to start with the proper basics-

That's an interesting thought. It might be worth experimenting with that. Thanks.