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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Like on the Yamaha AG's?

I don't think the AG has continuous position sensing?

I'm not sure, but I believe the sensors react to the degree of dark or light getting through the grid. For example on the NU1 there is only one sensor per key, so I assume there is a degree of continuity. I recall seeing a write up, maybe a patent, where the slope of variable light detected is turned into a range of 'positions' and 'velocity'. When I have a chance I will see if I can find it again.

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I remember when we got ours years ago reading from Yamaha engineering write-up that the AG N3 uses 256 velocity values when using its internal sound engine. When you use the N3 as a MIDI controller, it down-sample to 128 values to comply with MIDI standards.

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Originally Posted by 8 Octaves
I remember when we got ours years ago reading from Yamaha engineering write-up that the AG N3 uses 256 velocity values when using its internal sound engine. When you use the N3 as a MIDI controller, it down-sample to 128 values to comply with MIDI standards.


How important IS that ?
Given that I can't reliably produce more than a few - a VERY FEW (-:
I seriously doubt that many players can RELIABLY produce more than a couple of dozen.

I suspect that this is just another irrelevant "spec" number, much like the SIZE of a sample library.

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Actually you hit the important point. Since few people if any are capable of reliably producing the exact levels, on an AP it comes across in subtle ways as being more organic whereas it is the first sign on many DP sounding synthetic because it could sound so consistent. The more levels you have, the more inconsistencies will come through in subtle ways that could be perceived but not always easily identified. Also recall that the AG is targeting the highest skilled players who could produce very consistent tone with small variations.

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I disagree on both points.

1. The AG is targeted at the highest bankrolled players.

2. Holding the number of levels to the MIDI-dictated maximum of 127 vs. 256 will go unnoticed. Given the limited dynamic range, and dividing that any more finely than 127 levels is senseless. Even 127 levels is more than adequate.

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I think I may have played on TREASURED pianos that were in fair shape that had many keys that couldn't produce more than a few velocity levels.
I'm not talking about the obvious binary cases where friction in a bushing somewhere is either overcome or it isn't, but keys that won't give what I want, its either too little or OOPS -- WAY too much.

That bumps into the training effect, we learn which are the good ones that can be trusted as well as the ones with stiction (yes, that IS a word, I don't care WHAT the spell checker says).
SOME loosen up over time and/or I am trained by them, I can't tell (-:

If this is another case where plastic manufacturing has serendipitously eliminated yet another shortcoming of centuries old craft work and traditional materials I'll recant and ask for 65535 levels.


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65535 levels? Why?

That would be like owning a Ferrari ... in Manhattan.

Top speed of 220 MPH, and 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds. But you never get to use that because Manhattan traffic limits you to a top speed of 20 MPH. And 0 to 20 MPH offers little excitement.

Why buy (or ask for) something that you cannot use? The Ferrari is useless in Manhattan because its principal benefits cannot be employed. And the 65535 piano levels are useless because you cannot see, hear, feel, or otherwise sense them all.

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I don't waive a big JOKE sign EVERY time.
It is just the SIZE MATTERS joke.

At least I didn't ask for 4Gig of different velocities JUST BECAUSE 32 bits would allow it.

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Anyway......getting back to the topic of the thread.....

Did some digging but found basically nothing. I guess it's like how many licks will it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop drop; the world may never know.

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I think the PRACTICAL answer is that they can "last" longer than the interest that most initial purchasers maintain in them.
Their relatively low cost and marketing push to buy more recent product that is supposedly "better", at least in specs, also means that (on AVERAGE) they don't have to last very long anyway.
The mechanical/physical/electronic wear out life expectancy therefore has little relevance.

Mine has lasted over 30 years without failure or maintenance.
In that time most wooden pianos wood(pun) have needed a lot of expensive work to stay in good/fair shape, probably a fairly major rebuild.
It is doubtful that any family member will adopt it when I go, but that is a matter of interests and lifestyles, not wear out.
I suspect that many wooden pianos have gone the same way, the interest of someone of one generation (or LESS).

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Worst case scenario is the wooden monstrosity found usually in churches complete with candelabras. . . and you're expected to play the bloody thing! Never been tuned for 50 years. . it really hurts to play one o them. . .


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Would those be Cold DAMP churches ?
In the north of England ?

Surely not...


Would tuning make a difference ?

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Originally Posted by bill5
Anyway......getting back to the topic of the thread.....

Did some digging but found basically nothing. I guess it's like how many licks will it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop drop; the world may never know.


It really comes down to environmental conditions. The action is certainly the part most prone to wear - similar to a car in that it won't last indefinitely, but its life can be prolonged by how you 'drive' it, and the steps you take for preventative maintenance. In the case of a digital piano, this might be as simple as keeping a dust cover over the unit when not in use.

Electronic components also have a finite lifespan. Usually the electrolytic capacitors are the components to keep an eye on. They can last a good long time, but their lifespan depends entirely on both the engineering of the instrument and the environment in which they're used. Capacitors can experience a shorter life if they are subjected to higher operating temperatures or if the design of the electrical system in your keyboard calls them to run at or near capacity. A 10 volt capacitor might be rated to last at least 50,000 hours when run at 10v, but could last well over 100,000 hours if run at 5v.

Basically, it totally depends on the design of that particular instrument, and what level of tolerances were taken in to account during the design and engineering phase of the keyboard.

Last edited by LesCharles73; 05/01/15 01:44 AM.

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