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What gives the best results? I'm using a Sony PCM-D50 with a pair of built-in mics. Not sure if I should have it right up next to the rim, or out a little bit (like in the photo). Putting some distance between it and the piano seems to add a bit more reverb.

You'll hear more room ambience the further away it is from the piano.

Generally if you want the cleanest recording, you want it as close to the piano as possible without overloading the mic with high volume dynamic sound (this is going to be your biggest issue with a digital recorder). Does the DM-50 have a limiter so it doesn't clip the recording? Another option is to have it above the piano pointing down.

I don't know what's on the other side of the piano, but if you've got more curtains over there, you'll have yourself makeshift "recording" booth space. It will make it easier to record the sound of the piano (vs. the reflections off a hard wall).

Thanks, that seems to be what I'm hearing. I do like a little room ambiance, but not too much. The other side of the room is a wall covered with a few large bookcases.

The DM-50 does have a limiter, which I have been leaving on. It seems to be working so far, but the positioning is tricky. In the manual, they recommend placing it about 2-3 meters away for solo performance, with the mics in the inward position angled toward each other (right mic records left sounds, left mic records right sounds). However, in most recordings, I see people have mics right inside the piano, so I was little confused.

Maybe I can try a boom mic stand for more options. I tried putting the recorder as close as I could get it to the strings, slightly above the edge of the rim and pointing down towards the hammer line. Sounded good, but maybe a little too "in my face."

You probably are aware of this, but I'll mention it anyway : If your recorder as an "Auto gain" control, make sure it is off. "Auto gain" automatically boosts low volume sounds and lowers louder volume sounds which means, for classical music recordings, there is little dynamic range. It took me some time to find out why my recordings had so little dynamic range; the "auto gain" was the reason.

Since there are many variables with every room and every piano, I think you have to experiment with different mic positions and find what gives you the results you are looking for. Yes, studio recording set-ups often show mics on booms directly over the strings, but those studios are not using hand-held digital recorders.

Regards,

Excellent post!

I would just say the same thing about "Auto Gain". Please be sure that it is turned "Off".
I did a recording with my Zoom Q3HD placing the mics looking towards the strings.
The odd thing is that some listeners preferred to switch their headphones so that the bass would come from the left and the treble from the right channel.

Actually those might work really well as a sound absorbers for reflected sound. Especially if the books are pulled in and out in a random order. If your room is really dead (meaning it doesn't have a lot of sound reflecting surfaces), or if you can get a really good close up recording, you can add "room ambience" after the fact with basic audio editing software.


That's the number one thing to know about microphones, they work better closer to the sound source. It's just that large dynamic levels of sound can overwhelm the recording system.

If you're recording in stereo, definitely set it up to get the bass and treble on the left/right channels.

Also if you have basic audio editing software, run the recording through a compressor you might be surprised by how much you can "sweeten" the sound.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any auto gain. I'll try moving the recorded around a bit and see what happens.

As for editing, I use Audacity, which seems to be pretty good. I don't get too fancy; I just edit out pauses for page turns and boo boos. A lot of times I'll just leave it recording, and if I mess up a part, just do another take, and fix it later. That's probably "cheating" a bit, but oh well =)

I use Zoom H2N and play an upright. I usually set the mic as close as possible to the piano (right next to the rim pointing downwards). Just curious - do you mean we shouldn't do that with hand-held digital recorders? I like to remove as much "noise" as possible to give a "cleaner" sound.

And question for everyone - what recorder you think is best for recording piano? I find my Zoom H2N not sensitive enough to dynamics even though autogain is off. I suspect it still lowers some loud parts even with autogain turned off although of course not as much as when it's on

From the manual I see that there are LIMITER, LOW CUT and MIC ATT switches.

Maker sure that both LIMITER and LOW CUT are OFF and MIC ATT is 0.

Those are most likely directional mics and so I would advise against putting them too close, because you get weird balance due to the fact that a piano produces low notes and high notes in different places. Where you have it right now is a good spot IMO.

In recording there are several factors, but I'll mention two here.

First, the genre of music that you are recording is very important in decision making.

If you play jazz, having the mics or hand-held recorder right at the rim of the curve in the piano case works well. You are apt to get mechanical noises from the grand piano's action. But a lot of jazz pianists and listeners prefer to hear the hammer-on-string effect. They want to hear the making of the tone before it leaves the piano. We call that "close in" recording.

Classical placement is much different. What those musicians want to record and hear is a finished and blended sound. There is no interest at all in mechanical sounds from the piano. So classical recording aims not to hear the making of tone, but rather music that has fully exited the piano.

Thus, for classical application the mics or recorder on-board mics are placed further back from the piano case. The answer to "how far" becomes one of experimentation to find the "sweet spot" given the room and acoustic there. For home recordings each room is different. The house might have open plan architecture, or the living room might have partial walls and/or glass french doors opening into other rooms, or the room might be quite closed off from other rooms. In any case it's wise to aim the mics or recorder at the top of the fully open lid--not (intuitively) the center of the lid, as there is too much "wash" of sound there. Because of the variables I mentioned, the mics or recorder could be three feet out from the curve or more. I have a Baldwin Artist Grand, 6'3" which is classified as a full grand. Given the power of the piano in the living room which has stuffed chairs and sofas, wall-to-wall carpet and openings to other rooms, I set the mics 8 feet out from the curve. How did I decide on an 8 foot setback? Experimenting, experimenting and more experimenting. Again, every recording room is different. Capturing room ambiance is good, but the farther back from the piano, the more distant it will sound on the recording.

Separate mics on stands for classical music best use A-B configuration where the two mics are strictly parallel to one another but with a 12 inch space between them. (For stereo purposes the 12" is the average width of the human head--seriously!) I use a yardstick to recheck the squaring off of the two stands. One cannot be closer or more distant than the other. And I recheck the 12" space between the two mics. The mics are aimed at the edge of the raised lid.

With a hand-held size recorder, ideally on a stand, you have XY configuration there for recording. They appear as an X (or you might see only a V part of the X depending on the brand). For classical recordings, here is a practical tip: Stand at 3' away facing the curve. Then look at where the mics are aimed. Probably one is aimed more toward the front of the case and the other toward the tail of the case. Using that visual, step back to 4' and 5' etc. At some point you'll notice that one on-board mic is aimed at space beyond the tail, while the other is aimed at space past the keyboard. You're best served by moving in toward the curve so that the on-board mics are both aimed at the piano again, not beyond it. Again, experimentation is the key.

I hope this helps.

David