Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum "The piano is a thing of the past"

Yes, I probably was a bit defensive.
Although I called PW my "hobby" for a number of years, I've worked hard for over 10 years to make it an overnight success.

I will give you that "members" is more ambiguous than something like unique visitors or page views.

Perhaps a better way to look at the continuous increase in registrations is that we are constantly attracting new members.

Most sites report their "membership" based on the number of people who sign up, and don't drop out (Facebook, Flickr, Friendster, etc.).

I also consider the fact our page views on the forums alone continues to increase (without a corresponding increase in the average number of pages viewed per unique visitor), which means there must be more people visiting (as evidenced by a rise in the number of unique visitors).

We are getting off track here now, my fault for trying to support my assertion that the piano is still popular based on our traffic.

I now return you to our regularly scheduled debates.

Quotes from Scott the Piano Guy
Quite true. Most piano teachers have been trained in the classical tradition. (Ask one to comp or sightread a chart cold-turkey at a rehearsal. ) The market for live and recorded classical piano performance is so small that many talented and highly-trained classical musicians earn their daily bread teaching others rather than waiting for the phone call from Carnegie Hall (or even from the Elks Club). How many young pianists who work assiduously for ten to fifteen years mastering the requisite classical literature for competitions and conservatory auditions are dreaming of a career in teaching piano to youngsters?

Talented and highly-trained non-classical pianists are less likely to be teaching and more likely to be out gigging or doing studio work. The work may not be glamorous, but for many it beats teaching. Working non-classical pros will not knock digital instruments since those instruments usually put bread on their table. Good non-classical piano teachers can certainly be found, but not in the numbers that classically-trained teachers can.

Who cares?

The makers of acoustic instruments

Retailers who sell acoustic instruments exclusively

All those in the acoustic piano industry who prefer to harp on negative factors beyond their control rather than cleaning up their own image and practices.

The snobbish piano 'ownership' element who keep insisting that only an acoutic is a real piano, that only a grand is a real acoustic, and that only classical piano literature has real depth.

Turandot: "The snobbish piano 'ownership' element who keep insisting that only an acoutic is a real piano, that only a grand is a real acoustic, and that only classical piano literature has real depth."

All of those things above are true in my mind accept for the snobbish piano ownership attribution.

I have never owned a grand, I am happy with my Yamaha, it has been an excellant teaching piano bought in 1981.

Classical piano literature has depth and volume and a place in music history, I've enjoyed piano classical music greatly.

At the same time, I play digitals upon occasion, I can see what they offer to people in meeting different needs, recording, ear phones, rhythms, fun machines. So many piano students have them.

In the meantime, I've studied and played all kinds of music on the piano, and not limited to classical.

It's better to not make devisive statements about the piano as an instrument. I think each of us chooses what we need and can afford.

Not wearing wedding rings does not make me any less married than my 47 years of marriage. And even without presently owning a piano, I would still be a pianist and teacher, should that come to be.

Choose your instument for whatever reason, but the snob comments have to go. MHO.

Betty

Regarding popular music vs classical, I stick mostly to classical because, for the most part, music written for solo piano is mostly classical and is more interesting to play than most adaptations of popular music for piano. Perhaps there would be more interest in teaching popular music if there was more well arranged material to choose from. I assume this would increase the prices but it would be worth it. I haven't tried to play from fake books which, as I understand it, provide only a melody line and chords, leaving the arrangement up to the player in real time. I don't have that ability.

As for acoustic vs digital, I consider both to be real pianos, each with it's own strengths. A good acoustic piano is nicer to play but digitals are portable, offer expanded functionality and can be played silently. I own both.

Betty,

Thanks for your thoughts. The element of which I spoke does exist. It doesn't take much effort to find it here. In fact, you can't read far on the Piano Forum without bumping into it in one way or another. I was certainly not blaming it on piano teachers.

Keep those ringless fingers lingering on the keys in anticipation of the transfer. I enjoyed that comment a lot!

As a protagonist in the war - I bought a DP! - I could not help but feel a deep sense of loss at the weekend.

I was walking the dog and passed the local piano shop which, being Sunday, was closed. Looking through the glass door, I could see displays of Korg, Yamaha, Roland et al. Outside, obviously awaiting transport to the big pianomaker in the sky, parked nose to tail were seven old uprights in various degrees of disrepair but most seemed capable of at least partial restoration.

Lids were off, falls were open and it was raining. I can't remember when I last witnessed such a depressing spectacle but it did seem a portent of the acoustical future.

Hello everyone - and let me start by apologizing for not getting in on this topic sooner. I have a brief comment related to the very gloomy article that started this discussion - which was sent to me multiple times, by multiple business acquaintances.

After reading the "melancholy" article, I actually communicated directly with its author (Sean Nealon). I told him that I had personal, firsthand knowledge of two Southern California piano dealer representatives who had spoken with him, giving him positive views about the piano industry. I asked him why he didn't include those comments in his article. His answer was not at all satisfactory - as is typically the case when these so called "journalists" are the ones being asked the questions, rather than asking them.

In my view, he had a conclusion already determined - and the only "facts" he included were those that supported his pre-defined position - to which he was already committed.

I'm sensitive to the press - because I've seen this sort of thing happen over and over again. In one case in particular, it had a tremendously negative impact on us for quite some time. How many reporters are there who have any interest in "good news" - or in "positive news"? This guy - he's the sort of guy who, if home building was way up - - would report "Shortage of Building Materials Looms"!

The other side of the piano story can be dramatically and powerfully presented - just by visiting any one of the many RMM (Recreational Music Making) groups that have been started all over the country. What we as an industry must continue to do is consistenly and effectively communicate the benefits of music - and specifically the benefits of playing the piano - and offer our clients the convenient and enjoyable opportunity to do so. When the pure joy of music making is combined with the "fellowship" component, you have something that will never die.

And while I'm not at all naive as to the realities of the business climate - and the piano market today, I can tell you that there are dealers out there who's business is UP.

Let's identify people who "always wanted to play the piano" - - and prove to them that they can do it! Once that happens, they'll purchase the piano that makes the most sense for them. Let's be so busy doing this that we literally will not have time to read articles by authors who reject any positive story, simply because it's positive.

Thank you!

While pianos sales are down, so is everything else. To blatantly say that the piano is dead is simply not so. For what it's worth and it probably doesn't mean much in this topic but, you might find it interesting regardless... I believe, it was Yamaha that came up with figures back in 1970 that stated at that time, there were roughly 10 million pianos worldwide. I have no idea how many more have been added since.

I get calls every single week sometimes several times daily from people that have either been given a piano, purchased a piano either new or used; their parents bought them a new one as a gift, or, their grand parents bought them a new one and now they want it tuned as their child is going to take lessons.

I also get many calls asking for references for piano teachers as "I have just bought a new piano" and need a recommendation. (not having it tuned at that time)

In just one piano sale, for one dealer here last spring, they sold in 2 days, 35 pianos. Not a lot perhaps but, not bad either for a 2 day sale in a slumped economy. That's 35 new pianos in one town added in only 2 days. And that is just one dealer. There are two dealers left here that have sales regularly and usually do fairly well in each sale, considering...

Are sales down? Of course they are but, new pianos ARE selling.

I haven't kept an exact count but, I know that at least 30 of my own clients have purchased brand new pianos this year alone upon my recommendation to do so and I, am just one technician among many in this city and throughout the USA.

I know as a fact that most piano teachers also run into very similar situations asking for advice on what to buy besides what we see here on the forums.

So, while sales are down and again as I said, everything is, pianos are most certainly NOT dead by any means. What's more, is that people still take very good care of their good quality instruments because I am as busy as a beaver in a state forest full of dams.

turandot makes a good point about non-classical repertoire being almost nonexistent in teachers' offerings. As a decent classical pianist and ardent jazz listener, in fact, I'd like to find just such a teacher.

However, I do take exception to the implication that teaching piano is a kind of fallback position. For better or worse, there are many professions in which the teachers of said skill or knowledge far outnumber the practitioners. Ever met an actual philosopher, as opposed to a professor of philosophy? So it goes with most of the humanities. The question for me is why we've evolved this separation between teaching and practicing: in the old days, there were masters and apprentices, the boundary between study and work effaced. Now we have trade schools, conservatories, and other institutions of "learning" totally isolated from garages, concert halls, and other places of "doing."

Our celebrity-obsessed culture, ease of travel, and of course stereos, only exacerbate the situation: why listen to a good performance by some local unknown when you can follow the herd to Lang Lang et al? Sadly, our obsessive demand for the superstars ensures they won't do more than a token amount of teaching, even if they want to. (And yes, some people actually enjoy teaching!)

The piano is a victim of its own success, in that the number of highly competent players has for a long time far outweighed the number of gigs or venues. This is why savvy parents encourage their kids to study the bassoon, bagpipes, mandolin, etc. If digital pianos do someday outnumber acoustics (a horrid, horrid thought, to me), those who can play acoustics may suddenly find themselves in much higher demand, just as today players of harpsichords, organs, sackbuts, cornetti, and the like are often in undersupply.

Never encourage a child to play the bagpipes. Do you want to listen to the sound of a cat being strangled, day after day, for year after year? There is a reason why so few people live in Scotland you know.

Quiet--hear something? That's the ground rumbling beneath the feet of the horde of angry kilt-wearers about to descend on you.

In the long term, the piano industry (and the music industry in general)relies on a continuing supply of new players, many of whom will become repeat musical instrument customers, irrespective of type of instrument or brand, and some of whom will, at some point, become piano customers. The fact that there are still a lot of potential musicians out there has already been confirmed by Scott and can also be seen by the fact that Yamaha music schools, for example, have approx 700000 active students (still mostly keyboard)at the moment. Many of these learners are taught using contemporary, popular music, but even if only a relatively small percentage end up serious enough to drift towards classical music and/or the Piano, that still makes a substantial number of piano customers for the future.

I just wanted to say, and I hope I'm not reiterating what's already been said in this thread (it's a long thread), that I think what really drives people towards a particular instrument is usually inspiration from the music they listen to.

While piano may have traditionally been supported in this regard by classical music, I really do think piano is being incorporated into more and more pop/modern music.

For example, in terms of popular western music, you can hear the piano being used prominently in songs by groups/people like Muse, Alica Keys, Ben Folds, Coldplay, etc. As long as you have this in modern music, I really don't think piano will ever go away. As long as the inspiration is there, so will the interest in piano also be.

In China, I think a large part of the popularity of the piano has actually been from pop music icons. There's one artist you may have heard of called Jay Chou (or Zhou Jie Lun in Chinese pinyin) who's insanely popular over there, and features the piano in some of his most popular songs.

Personally, I picked up piano again within the last year after listening to music (mostly modern, but also lots of classical) and realizing how much I've been wanting to play again.

Granted, much of what I talk about is anecdotal, but I really find it hard to believe the piano is a "dying" instrument. Like someone else on this forum said, this is probably just another casualty of the current economic situation.

I am sorry that I missed this thread the first time around. The business is more certainly not dieing in Orange County, CA. Our single store sells in the neighborhood of 500 instruments per year. That number includes a representative sampling of digitals, acoustic uprights and grands in all price points.

I will say that we are fortunate to be located in an area of a high concentration of ethnicities that value piano lessons in the home. The bulk of our sales are drived by Asian, Persian, and Indian families who are embracing piano music in the home in a big way. A recent survay showed 300 piano teachers within 20 miles of our store.

We are closely connected with Clavinova Connection, Yamaha recreational music making program in a near by community.

The business has gone through ups and downs and evolutions during my 35 years, but is not dieing or dead.

Quoting the original post's quotation from the media ...

These author's reasons seems valid, but I think he underestimated the effect of the recession.

I think the drop-off didn't start sooner because there **wasn't** a recession.

Let's wait and see. I'm guessing 2009 will be as bad as 2008. But in 2010, things might be very much better.

Well ... better for the dealers, anyway. Maybe not for the customer ... If some dealer close up shop during the recession, there will be less competition and prices will rise.

Is it really just 54,000 pianos sold last year? Surely that's only counting new pianos. Still, that seems awfully low.

I have so many gigs in Dec. that I barely have enough time to post my usual 25 times a day on Piano World.

Yes, accordions are definitely sexy! Look at this video clip and you will see what I mean. Stadium rock played on an accordeon. Now, that´s really cool. These instruments could become the next status symbol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOq13SA6OW4

Gregor

The purchasing of a piano is always going to be a luxury to some extent and in these times, sales of luxuries such as that are always going to recede, especially when there are cheaper alternatives like digital pianos. I myself have a digital precisely because of the cost but hope to buy an acoustic as soon as I can afford.
Ultmately, I don't think this decline is terminal, but indicative of the times. The piano's popularity has endured through wars, economic collapses and through centuries.

I work in a music college and we are inundated with applications to study piano. No other instrument, including guitar, touches it in popularity and we have to turn scores of people away. The popularity is truly staggering and we have pianos stuffed into nearly every room to accomodate it. That said, I hope it continues as often music lessons can be the first thing to go if a family are facing difficult financial times.

I don't think it is accurate to say the piano will die. However, the popularity and importance of the acoustic piano is declining and will continue to do so. At one time, there was a banjo boom. How many people play it now? I do (a little) and I do love the acoustic piano. As my wife said, the acoustic piano feels like a living thing when she plays it while digitals just feel dead. There will always be a place for the acoustic piano. I just think it will continue to get smaller over time.