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Joined: May 2015
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OP
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I assume they get some sort of combination
of an hourly wage, with a sales commission on
top of that?
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Usually, yes.
How much do you make?
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It largely depends on the level of business done by the dealer.
Larger dealers (say $2M and up) tend to hire more experienced sales persons who are paid from say $50,000 - $130,000.
Midsize dealers pay about $40,000-$60,000, and smaller dealer somewhat less.
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation
www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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It largely depends on the level of business done by the dealer.
Larger dealers (say $2M and up) tend to hire more experienced sales persons who are paid from say $50,000 - $130,000.
Midsize dealers pay about $40,000-$60,000, and smaller dealer somewhat less. So you are talking a straight salary here. But what about a typical % commission on sales?
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I'm interested to know this information as well, and I think Steve Cohen was about as honest and candid as any dealer here would be regarding this type of information.
However, I learned a long time ago that there are two things you don't ask someone, based on proper etiquette (at least where I'm from)... how much money they make and how often they have relations with their spouse or significant other. If someone wants to divulge that kind of very personal information, then so be it.
Just my .02.
Rick
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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I assume they get some sort of combination
of an hourly wage, with a sales commission on
top of that?
I think Steve gave you a pretty good generalization, but here is more detail: COMMISSION: Every company has a different method, but the two most common are based on a percentage of the sales price or percentage of the gross profit. Typically, 5-10% is paid when its a percentage of the sales price, and 20%-25% is typical when its a percentage of the gross profit. DRAW WITH STRAIGHT COMMISSION: Every state has different regulations, so if a company pays their salespeople on "straight commission" they may be required to ensure that the person earns at least minimum wage. For example, in California that figure is about $10 per hour. So, if a company has a bi-weekly payroll, usually the salesperson has a "draw", say $400 per pay period, and then it is balanced against commission at the end of the month. DRAW AGAINST COMMISSION: More experienced salespeople may be offered this structure if they have a proven sales record with a company. They are given a salary, say $1,000 per week, and at the end of each fiscal quarter, the salary (draw) is calculated against the commission percentage. If the amount is greater, they get a check for that. If it is less...well, depends on the company and the salesperson. Some start clean at the next quarter, but as you can imagine, there had best not be too many fiscal quarters where the draw exceeds the sales commission. SALARY WITH COMMISSION: Some, more experienced salespeople, may be paid a salary plus a small percentage of commission with specific goals. For example, and salaried salesperson, say at $60k, might make 1%, 1.5% or 2% of gross sales if they meet specific targets, say $50k per month in sales. NONE OF THE ABOVE: There are about as many formulas as there are dealers. Needless to say, every company has their own opinions as to what is fair. In the case of owners like Rich, Sam, Steve and me, who sell and are owners, we don't get commission, we don't get a salary, we don't get benefits, we don't get time off, and often don't get holidays. BUT, we do get to be surrounded by pianos, and answer nefarious questions directed to dealers on PW! ![[Linked Image]](http://rockchat.net/smilies/piano.gif)
Russell I. Kassman Technician -Consultant FORMER/Semi-Retired: USA Rep.for C.Bechstein & Sauter; Founder/R. KASSMAN Piano; Consultant - GUANGZHOU Pearl River Piano Co. www.RussellKassman.com
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In the case of owners like Rich, Sam, Steve and me, who sell and are owners, we don't get commission, we don't get a salary, we don't get benefits, we don't get time off, and often don't get holidays. BUT, we do get to be surrounded by pianos, and answer You sure can get "holidays" Provided you work [mostly] by appointment with your prices being so competitive, people line up to buy... Norbert 
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OP
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I assume they get some sort of combination
of an hourly wage, with a sales commission on
top of that?
I think Steve gave you a pretty good generalization, but here is more detail: COMMISSION: Every company has a different method, but the two most common are based on a percentage of the sales price or percentage of the gross profit. Typically, 5-10% is paid when its a percentage of the sales price, and 20%-25% is typical when its a percentage of the gross profit. DRAW WITH STRAIGHT COMMISSION: Every state has different regulations, so if a company pays their salespeople on "straight commission" they may be required to ensure that the person earns at least minimum wage. For example, in California that figure is about $10 per hour. So, if a company has a bi-weekly payroll, usually the salesperson has a "draw", say $400 per pay period, and then it is balanced against commission at the end of the month. DRAW AGAINST COMMISSION: More experienced salespeople may be offered this structure if they have a proven sales record with a company. They are given a salary, say $1,000 per week, and at the end of each fiscal quarter, the salary (draw) is calculated against the commission percentage. If the amount is greater, they get a check for that. If it is less...well, depends on the company and the salesperson. Some start clean at the next quarter, but as you can imagine, there had best not be too many fiscal quarters where the draw exceeds the sales commission. SALARY WITH COMMISSION: Some, more experienced salespeople, may be paid a salary plus a small percentage of commission with specific goals. For example, and salaried salesperson, say at $60k, might make 1%, 1.5% or 2% of gross sales if they meet specific targets, say $50k per month in sales. NONE OF THE ABOVE: There are about as many formulas as there are dealers. Needless to say, every company has their own opinions as to what is fair. In the case of owners like Rich, Sam, Steve and me, who sell and are owners, we don't get commission, we don't get a salary, we don't get benefits, we don't get time off, and often don't get holidays. BUT, we do get to be surrounded by pianos, and answer nefarious questions directed to dealers on PW! Thanks, that's quite detailed. To Rickster: I'm aware people are very private about how much they make, but I'm not asking about any specific person's income. I'm only asking a ball-park, general range as the market stands now. Sort of like asking what an electrical engineer with a Bachelors degree, and 10 years of work experience would make in today's market. So to put this another way: How much would you dealers offer to a piano teacher/tuner/tech-in-training, who has done some piano tunings and piano evaluations for you, but who has no previous experience selling pianos specifically, but who has certainly been in retail in the past? I just need ballpark figures, and it would likely be part-time work, so maybe an hourly rate (and % commission) would be better than a straight salary. And of course, only state what you are comfortable to mention in public!
Last edited by Scriabin67; 05/09/15 08:20 PM.
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Just ask the dealer who you plan to work for.
The better question may then be, how much do you need?
Be prepared to work for less considering your experience.
One suggestion might be, volunteer to work the floor and sell a few pianos for free. Anyone who is confident in their ability would not criticize this suggestion. If you do not feel you could sell some pianos for this dealer for free, you won't be able to sell them for a commission. Once money becomes your only motivation, performance slips. Unless you play for the Montreal Canadians. GO HABS GO!
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I would suggest that a piano salesperson who is neatly turned out, knowledgable and can play a variety of genres to demonstrate a variety of pianos should do well. Unfortunately there seem to be too few of such people in the trade.
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
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Scriabin67, Why do you ask?
Are you thinking of piano sales as a career choice?
Is your daughter hoping to marry a piano salesman?
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It largely depends on the level of business done by the dealer.
Larger dealers (say $2M and up) tend to hire more experienced sales persons who are paid from say $50,000 - $130,000.
Midsize dealers pay about $40,000-$60,000, and smaller dealer somewhat less. So you are talking a straight salary here. But what about a typical % commission on sales? This figure reflect the total earnings, regardless of methodology.
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation
www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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Joined: May 2001
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Inexperienced sales people are a huge liability.
Most dealers need a fairly high closing percentage to stay in business. We can't afford to lose sales while a newbie trains.
Piano Industry Consultant
Co-author (with Larry Fine) of Practical Piano Valuation
www.jasonsmc@msn.com
Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer
Retired owned of Jasons Music Center
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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Selling pianos can be a "sales job" or something carried by higher convictions. Many moons ago I once worked as a "salesman" and know the rigor of the trade. It's basically all about money and how much you make. If this is the basis of your question, I would frankly advice to look for a different career. If you like to become a 'piano consultant' instead,[unfortunately an overused term..]you would need to familiarize yourself with most pianos on the market first. You need to know the strength [and weaknesses..] of the piano you will be selling as well as those of the competition. You will need to make a convincing presentation why your pianos are a better buy and better value for your customers. Plus you will need to have your customers find this out by themselves as well - you can't fake this any longer. So,perhaps think of becoming a "guide" rather than "salesman" You gotta set your mind right. And don't forget about a healthy measure of passion. Without it you will be lost in the ongoing battles out there. With the other "salesmen"...  Once you have mastered this and of course accumulated a good amount of knowledge,, success and money will follow. It's the secret by which those in the business have become successful and remain so. It's not just about dollars and cents. They have to be the natural outcrop of what your doing. That's why my answer is slightly different from the above. best of luck to you! Norbert 
Last edited by Norbert; 05/10/15 02:23 PM.
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I am inclined to agree with those who would like to know why the OP "needs" the information. And with Rickster, who makes the valid point that one should never ask anyone else what they earn.
As for the response from the OP, that the OP only wants general information, there are a few points to be made about that.
First, what part of the country (or the world) is under discussion? People who live and work in the New York City area need far more salary than people who live and work in (say) West Virginia or South Dakota.
Second, any specific information, if shared here, would potentially supply dealers with information about each other to which they are not entitled and which their competitors might prefer them not to have, especially if a dealer supplies the information. For an employee to supply the information carries great risk for the employee's job.
Third, it is asking a lot to ask dealers to share information that could potentially be used by prospective employees (or even by current ones) in making demands as to starting salary (or raises).
In short, if the OP is planning a career in selling pianos, he or she would be better off to learn about salary once he or she has started on a serious job search.
My less than two cents.
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OP
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It largely depends on the level of business done by the dealer.
Larger dealers (say $2M and up) tend to hire more experienced sales persons who are paid from say $50,000 - $130,000.
Midsize dealers pay about $40,000-$60,000, and smaller dealer somewhat less. So you are talking a straight salary here. But what about a typical % commission on sales? This figure reflect the total earnings, regardless of methodology. Ok, then you've answered my question, pretty much. Regarding the other posts here: I most certainly would not do something just for money at this point in my life. I have a piano addiction that needs catering to, and sales would be another way to help feed that need. I think Steve's answer has been broad and wide enough not to cause anyone any harm. So now I play piano, teach piano, tune and regulate pianos, evaluated pianos, and maybe soon I'll be selling them too. Maybe I'll sell one to YOU!
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Asking for information about salaries is completely valid IMO. I wish more young people did this before enrolling in a journalism or psychology major (no offense). I "wasted" my first year in college studying a pretty un-marketable major - the advisors and their advice was worthless because I suppose if they really understood the economy and the job market they wouldn't be working as advisors. Anyway, thanks to the internet this stuff isn't so opaque anymore. There's a site called Glassdoor. Did a search for "piano" around NYC but didn't come up with too much. Some guy at the Mason & Hamlin factory reported he earns $15.50/hr. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Mason-and-Hamlin-Piano-Salaries-E726156.htmThis whole culture about "not talking about what you earn" is disguised as some benefit to protect people's privacy but it's really designed as a way for large corporations to exploit labor, especially from immigrants, minorities, and women. Similarly, this custom we still have in the piano retail industry where the salesman tells you, "don't tell anyone the deal I gave you" Why, so you can charge the next guy double, or maybe I just paid double... What if you went to Target and there weren't prices on anything. You'd have to go to the cashier and secretly negotiate everything. Hahah... Anyway, if you have some spare time maybe become an Uber driver. Drive on the weekends when everyone's getting out of the bars. You can mix your love for the piano by playing Rachmaninoff for them. Or maybe become a TaskRabbit, assemble people's Ikea desks, make beer runs. Tons of ways to make a few extra pennies in this <strike>sharing</strike> renting economy.
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Asking what the typical salary is in any field is perfectly valid and TOTALLY different from asking an individual what their personal salary is.
I also don't think this would be giving away any information to dealers that they don't already know.
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I earn nothing, I'm retired.
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