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Hi, new user to the group. I'm hoping to gain some insight into my next purchase.
I'm in the market for a new stage piano. I currently use a Roland RD/600 and it's time to replace. The things I'm looking for in order of importance:
1.realistic piano sound
2. Piano feel and playability
3. Quality of EP sounds
4. Weight- doesn't have to be super light, but should be lighter than my old 55 LB board
5. Additional sounds
I will use it as an acoustic piano 80-90% of the time , so piano sound and feel is of paramount importance. Organ not important to me, as I also run a Hammond SK1
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks,
Dr Dan

1. This is arbitrary, so you will have to decide for yourself. I personally prefer a lot of piano libraries to those in the Rolands or the Nords. But in both cases, these sounds are tweakable to an extent.

2. The Roland RD-800 IMHO will have the "more similar to a grand piano" action. Nord uses the Fatar TP40 in the Piano 2. It is weighted lighter than the RD-800, the drop is shallower, and it does not have escapement where the RD-800 does.

3. Quality of EP sounds. We could debate this all day as well. The RD800 offers the larger on board sample/sound library... which will cover a lot more bases than what is currently in Nord's sample library line up. And certainly, the Nord Piano 2 is lacking in enough memory to carry very much of their library around. But, Nord does let you pick and choose what you want to carry with, and they do allow users to use their own samples, where the RD800 can not. Both have some nice EP presets. However, IMHO there is something to be said about velocity layers in sample libraries for electric pianos. Nord must agree, because they offer multi-samples for their " Piano Libaries ", but not for their, " Sample Libraries". So it depends on your needs, if you need tons of sounds of all types, you go with the RD800. If you're very picky and want to select and bring only what you need, the Nord wins here.
4. The Nord is lighter.
5. Already covered.

$3000 vs. $2500

Tough call.
As always, if you can... play them both.
If you can't make sure they have 30 day return policy so you can try it out.

Best.

I agree with Elmer's assessment. I own both the nord stage 2 (which has a very similar action and plays the same piano sounds as the piano 2) and the RD-800. They are both excellent choices. The Nord has more piano sample sets and arguably better sounding pianos. But the pianos on the Roland are VERY competitive. And not only do the roland's pianos sound fantastic out of the box, the supernatural engine lets you tweak them in an incredible variety of ways so that you can dial in just the piano sound that you're looking for. For non-piano sounds and for electric piano sounds, I'd say the Roland wins hands down. And for pure piano playing, on the two actions again there is no comparison. The Roland has a vastly more authentic feeling action than the Nord. (of course, that doesn't mean that you would like it better).

I'm comparing this to the Stage, but I will also say that the keys on the nord bottom out a lot harder than the ones on the roland, and the keys on the nord are NOISEY! On a stage with a band that doesn't matter, but if you're trying to practice late at night, headphones don't matter so much when that "thump thump thump" of the mechanical key noise is keeping your spouse from falling asleep. .

Another advantage of the RD-800 is that it can drive up to four sounds in any combination of layers and splits that you want. The Nord piano has much less robust capability in that regard.

I would guess that between the two the Roland would give you a better piano playing experience. But with that being said, some of those Nord samples are just so incredibly beautiful. If you play them, you might just fall in love with them. I know I do every time I play them.

So the best bet would be to try them (the yamaha too!) and see which one speaks to you best.

Oh, and for what it's worth, if I recall correctly the fazioli sample came out after the nord piano 2 was released, so I don't think it's one of the default (from the factory) sounds. It's really awesome, so if you can't find a shop that will install it for you to try it out, at least listen to some of the demos.

I love my RD800 and consider it one of the best purchases that I've ever made of any kind, but having said that, I'm going to muddy your waters and recommend that you not neglect the Kawai MP11 as it seems to hit your targets well. It has one of the finest actions out there and excellent piano sounds with great customizability.

The CP4 is more comparable to the RD800 in many ways. The action is heavier like a grand piano, I think maybe slightly shallower so maybe a fraction of a hair faster, but the feeling of escapement is not as realistic, actually I wonder if the NW-GH action even has an escapement mechanism. I'm not sure. The ROM full of sounds is more similar to the RD800. Some people dig the Yamaha samples over the Roland and vise versa. So subjective, you need to hear for yourself. Again, different animals from the Nord Piano 2, either I think would be more piano like to play than the Nord though. $2300 for the CP4. Tough call. Not big enough difference in price for that to be a factor.

petes1,
The MP11 is undeniably a great board, but it does not meet the OP's requirements for weight/portability. The MP11 is a beast. With that being said, the kawai MP7 is also an excellent piano and might be a worthy choice for consideration.

Yes, the MP11 has the best action out of the lot, but is heavier than the OP's current board at 71 lbs.

The MP7 is lighter at 46 lbs., with an action superior to the NP2, and on par with that of the RD800 and CP4. However, the organ-related features will likely be unnecessary if an SK-1 is readily available.

All of the boards mentioned in this thread are great at what they do, however it's important to play-test all of the instruments before making a purchasing decision.

Kind regards,
James
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Wow, thanks for all the quick replies and great info! A couple other things I'll mention. I ruled out the MP11 out of hand due to its 71.5 lbs. I hadn't looked into the MP 7 , but after reading this, I read some more reviews of it. Seems like a number of people have had quality control issues with it, especially with key noise and keys bottoming out. I tend to be a pretty hard player, so I definitely want a rugged mechanism that can handle that . My RD 600 fit the bill for quite some time in that regard, but is now breaking down.
I actually purchased a CP4 last year, but returned it because the piano sounds, particularly in the mid range didn't quite do it for me. I dud love the EP's it had, but I'm hoping to love them as much on one of the other boards -we'll see, but as I said, the acoustic pianos are by far most important to me. I'm actually in Ft Wayne tonight as I speak, ready to compare boards tomorrow. I was curious to gather opinions from those who had already had their hands on these boards. Thanks to all who checked on on this. I'll let you know my thoughts tomorrow after I get my hands on them

I've had my RD-800 for about 6 weeks now, and was able to directly compare it to the CP4 when I bought it. To me the Roland has a much more natural feel than the Yamaha. The hand-to-sound connection is superb, and the escapement is very similar to my grand piano at home. It's an absolute joy to play. The SuperNatural sounds are very tweakable, but also very playable out of the box.

I also own a Nord Electro 3HP. While the HP action is inferior to the Nord HA action, I have played both the Nord Piano 2 and the Stage 88. The HA action (which is the Fatar TP40), has a great feel to it. My concern about it is that it is a 2-sensor system, while most of the other stage pianos are moving to a 3-sensor system. The 2-sensor mechanism prohibits certain playing subtleties such as rapidly repeated legato notes. Roland is not specific about how many sensors there are in the RD-800 action, but it has an incredibly high resolution to it.

With regard to the AP sounds, I mentioned that the Roland sounds are very usable out of the box. The base "library" of SuperNatural AP sounds are rather small; you seem to get a concert (grand) piano and a studio (upright or conservatory) piano. They both have wonderful characteristics, and, like was stated earlier, the adjustability is enormous. Nord gives you a HUGE library of piano samples, and, while it takes time to load them in and play around with them, you can most certainly find pianos you'll be happy with. Most notably, their collection of uprights is sublime, each with it's own distinct personality and set of quirks. The uprights also EQ very well for live playing.

Which brings me to another point about the Nord APs. The front panel of the Nord invites you to tweak, and it's best that you do so. I have found that, while the piano samples are very high quality, it takes a bit of twiddling to dial in the right sound. You need to spend time with the EQ, compression and even reverb types to get what you need. It's probably similar to the type of adjustments you'd have to make if you were mic'ing up a real acoustic for recording or stage. The sounds are that good.

The EPs on the Nord are also fabulous. They are very natural sounding, and invite you to play them. Once again, there are multiple Rhodes sample sets in the library, and you're bound to find a few that suit you. They are very accurate (including the quirks of the real thing), and again I encourage you to make liberal use of EQ and effects.

I think that the biggest challenge with the Nord Piano is that the floor models don't come close to showing you its potential. They can't include all the piano sounds from the full library, so you won't know if it's for you until you bring it home and try out all the samples in your own environment using your own amplification.

EPs on the Roland are (in my opinion) less "organic" than the Nord's sample library, but they are all very playable and mix well with other instruments. The Rhodes samples show both a velvety quality and the ability to bark when you need it. The amp sims on both are very good.

I would also say that the UI on the Roland and Nord both far exceed the CP4's labyrinth of menus. I personally had a very hard time both playing and using the CP4 in the 45 minutes I spent with it. For my tastes, the flagship CFX sample set is way too bright; I would never use it. I much prefer the CFIII and S6 samples. I also found that I could not tell the difference between the difference Rhodes sample sets. And finally, I wasn't feeling it with the key action. I know there's a lot of people who love the CP4 - I'm not one of them.

Also, +1 on the MP7. It has a divine action and wonderful soundset. It's very playable and usable. The UI is incredibly intuitive. The AP's are really good, on par with the others you are looking at. The EP's rate about a hair below the Roland and Nord pianos. The price differential makes the MP7 very attractive, and I would probably own one if I couldn't afford the RD-800.

Agreed. I think the Nord Faz is the best hardware DP acoustic piano sound out there.

I'm partial to the CP4 . Best substitute non-piano I've found for jazz yet.

I used both Nord Pianos, NP88 and NP2, for close to 4 years. It was a love -hate relationship. I put up with the Fatar action. Once I got the CP4 everything was SO much easier.

On the Nord for chords, I did really like the clarity and vibe of The Fazioli sample. For single line solos though, again I constantly fought the action. It always seemed to impede the creative flow during solos. That coupled with the unevenness of the samples , especially thinning out in the higher registers, were a constant source of frustration for me on the gig.

All that said, I do miss the NP2 since I sold it back in Sept. of '14. I wouldn't mind having another one to alternate with the CP4 depending on my mood. The tone of each is so dramatically different , it would be nice to be able to choose depending on the gig or mood.

Not a fan of the MP7, but I do like the MP11 very much the two times I've played it. To restate the obvious --the MP11 certainly isn't practical for gigs. Although at age 53-54 , I was schlepping the CP300 around (in a soft Yamaha YB880 bag) , not on every gig, but more high profile concert / club dates when an acoustic wasn't available. However that was 8 years ago , wouldn't consider it at almost 62 today. I took my CP5 out yesterday on a single because of the drum loops and my back is bothering me today.

I really like the drums on the RD-800. I think it would work really well for my singles were I play with drum loops , do LH bass and vocals - and at 7 lbs. lighter then the CP5. For straight group playing , I don't know. In the past I've never had good luck with Roland pianos in a live playing context. But this is definitely the nicest one by them I've played , so maybe...

I'm very picky about amplification and speakers , probably as much as which electronic keyboard I use. That can make or break any DP's tone, live, when playing in a group.

I use the RCF TT08As and TT22As with two different pre amp sources depending on if it's just piano or piano & vocals.

For piano alone :JMK Audio JM-110
http://www.jmkaudio.com/110.htm

And when I need multiple channels : APB Dynasonics Pro Spec mixer
http://www.apb-dynasonics.com/downloads/ProSpec/ProSpec-2U-2015-NEW-ADDRESS-022715.pdf

The Rd-800 has 3 sensors. I've seen 'em...

And after having played actions with the triple-sensor (which the Kawai MP7 also features), not having them is a deal breaker. It really does make that much difference, even for a mediocre hack like me. I played an MP5 for years and am finding that the newer action of the Roland has made me play better, quicker, more expressively and with more confidence.

To summarise, action wise the RD is magnificent, Kawai MP7 a close second with the Nord Stage a very distant third (I haven't played the others so can't comment). As nice as the Nord is as a concept, it is yesterday's news as far as action is concerned, in my opinion.

Grand piano sounds on the RD are really nice and super expressive out of the box for the most part and can genuinely be tweaked quite comprehensively to suit your taste and method of amplification (although I'm still working on this - only had the keyboard for a little while). The individual note voicing is the best aspect. Other parameters such as stretch tuning, sympathetic resonance, damper resonance etc are available and pretty much the same on the Kawai and not as comprehensive on the Nord (as far as I can remember).

Upright piano sounds on the RD are just about unusable for anything that requires legato, which is a major disappointment to me. Who at Roland decided that uprights don't have sustain???? The Nord's uprights are gorgeous and I really like the Kawai MP7's upright sound. (A shout out to anyone who has dialled in a workable upright sound on the RD that they would like to share with the class!)

Kawai's interface is still the best, Roland's is very comprehensive but nowhere near as intuitive, particularly in relation to patch selection - too much scrolling necessary. Nord's is not as easy as I thought it would be but I am coming from being accustomed to the Kawai way of doing things for years...old habits and all that... The Nord's split/layer functionality is way too rudimentary for a keyboard of this class/price.

EP's are all good, but noticeably different from each other. I rate Roland's as the best all round - the "connection to sound" thing is just great, and they are also very tweakable - one area where the "tone colour" gimmick actually adds value.

Well, I checked out all 3 pianos today and made a decision. As I previously stated, I purchased a CP4 last year and returned it. I confirmed my initial impressions of it- great usable board, good feel, fantastic EPs- best EPs of the bunch IMHO. However I didn't love the piano sounds. There was only one of them I liked at all, and that one still sounded wonky in the midrange. I tried the Nord first and was impressed with the sound and action. Until I tried the Roland. The Roland to me felt the best, better than the Yamaha feel, with the Nord not really close- the Nord really does not feel like a piano. The sounds were good on the Nord, but I felt that the Roland APs were superior . ( admittedly , they did not have the Fazioli patch on the Nord in the store, or at least I couldn't find it). The Roland and Nord were literally side by side , so I would go from one to the other and Roland was a clear winner in both the action and realism of the piano sound. I'd give Nord the edge in the EPs, but still not as good there as the Yamaha there. I would have to echo Rusty Mike, the hand to sound connection is superb on the Roland. There's no doubt that more expression can be wrung out of the Roland than the Nord, as there is greater range from hitting the note very softly to hitting the note very hard on the Roland. I could certainly see how each board would have its advocates, but for me the Roland wins easily. I could see someone liking the Nord better if they like to tinker a lot with the sounds, and there are potentially more to tinker with, but for me, I'll use it as an AP 90% of the time, and to my ear, Roland beats Yamaha on the sound of that easily and in touch slightly, and they beat Nord in the sound by a bit and decisively in the action. While very playable, I don't think anyone will mistake the Nord for a real piano keyboard. But I guess there's something for everyone depending on what you like and what you're looking for. All of the boards are definitely high quality instruments!

I'm a big fan of the CP4's EPs too. I had a good play on it at a trade show last year. I was probably sat down for at least 45 minutes and was struggling to pull myself away to check out the other boards.

Cheers,
James
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Congrats on your decision Dan!

The RD-800 is a killer board, no doubt about it.

By the way, did you have a chance to try the MP7 at that Fort Wayne store (Sweetwater?)?

Cheers,
James
x

Dr Dan
It's a great choice. I think I would have made the same one. I hope that you love your new board. The keyboard feels awesome and the sounds are great! Regarding the Roland EP's, they're supernatural with a tone designer feature which means that they have the same level of customizability as the acoustic pianos. You can really tweak a lot about the EP sounds. If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to take a look at Jay Roland's TurboStart videos (they're short and cover a lot of important highlights to get you up and running quickly):

http://rolandblog.ca/get-roland-rd-800/

Also, the tone color feature is particular nice for the EP's; it allows for quick and broad adjustments of the sound. I know that you're primarily interested in piano, but the RD-800 has a very sophisticated layering/splitting abilities and you can create a very wide palate of sounds with it. Definitely worth exploring some of the other sounds on the board and what you can do with them in regards to layering them under a piano tone.

Anyway, congratulations on your decision!

Congrats on your decision. As I've mentioned, I too have the RD800 and absolutely love it to pieces and predict that you will too! By the way, what type of "Doctor" are you?

James,
I didn't check out the MP7, as they didn't have it out there. They did have the MP11, but I didn't test it.

Fizikisto, thanks for the link to the Turbo Start videos! I'm sure those will come in very handy.

Pete, why a New Orleans piano professor of course!...........well. no actually, a dentist. Started using the handle at an open jam, when the host kept wanting to introduce me by first and last name, and kept butchering it ( in repeating it to me, not in the mic). Finally, I told him , "just call me Dr. Dan". Made sense since that's what they call me all day anyway, might as well use it at night too!

Anyway, thanks to all for the great input. Looking forward to its arrival in the next day or two! And checking here for more great tips.

Then I'm Doctor Pete, and nice to meet you!

Congratulations! Keen to hear back from you about how you get on and what kind of tweaks you discover. Enjoy!