Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum What sounds like like mellow Yamaha, except moreso?

i believe it was an esteemed dealer here in chicagoland (who closed their doors recently after a multi-generational run) who said to me once, "if you want to make a million dollars in the piano business, start with 2 mil."

That's funny!

My own take would be this:

"Don't get into this thinking only about $$. If you want to do o.k in this business don't forget to look over your shoulders and accept the changes going on. You get penalized for while going a different way or being ahead of time, but when others will be struggling, you'll be doing just fine"

Wisdom at semi-retirement....

Norbert

Dealers surely must make a fair bit of money. Especially tuner/dealers.

However, I am talking about the piano businesses themselves. It's not the dealer who decides what components go into a piano or what the MSRP will be. Some pianos are better than others and patents for these instruments stop other manufacturers from copying those details, hence they are able to charge a premium and at the same time stagnate the future progression of the piano.

I heard that same joke applied to starting a winery (and vineyard) in Napa Valley. But that joke must be pretty old because $2M doesn't seem like it would get you anywhere close to enough land for a vineyard and then to build out the winery.

Same here in our famous B.C. Okanagan wine region.
Just spoke to a grower who had to sell 20 acres making a huge loss.

But now runs the finest B&B in the area - making profit!!

Norbert

Technicians don't always agree on design elements or material specifications. So getting them to agree on how to make pianos in a business structure like you suggest would be impossible.

If you spend time talking to Steinway tone regulators you will discover that even they have disagreements between themselves and management on how the piano should be built.

Some of this is good because healthy competition brings an incentive for people to show they can excel.

But what about the cartel? I really would like to know about it.

So, what ROCE do the various piano makers earn? How does that compare with equivalent manufacturers of goods? Do the members of the cartel, to which you referred, make a higher ROCE than nonmembers?

A lot is down to the market. Some people can't afford a Rolls, so drive a small Ford instead. They both intrinsically serve the same purpose (A->B), but are targeted at different people. Yes, there are some things a Rolls probably will do (or do better) which my small Ford can't - but at least I can park mine easily. And just because a person could afford a Rolls, they could still choose to drive a small Ford.

Same with pianos - people buy them with different things in mind. Some who could afford a Steinway/Bose choose a Yamaha upright. Some who play brilliantly own an old clunker. Some who own a Tier 1 piano are only average players.

So, if all pianos were equal, it would remove choice.

And what if a Steinway model B was the same price as a Yamaha U3?
Say, 10k each?
I'd still want to play on a U3 from time to time for its brightness, compactness, historical context and comparison. The piano I would take, however, is the B.

If Steinway gave up their scaling patent and other manufacturers were free to produce hybrid pianos based on this and their materials, the more inventive piano companies out there would leap on this opportunity I am sure.

In the future, everyone will have a Rolls. Only it won't just be a Rolls, it will also fly.

If there were no patents to protect inventions research and development would stop.

and why is that?
People are greedy.
Therego, piano corporations are greedy and we have to suffer for it.

Are you saying that we greedy people are suffering because we are greedy? If yes, I agree.

Life is inherently selfish. Those who are not find themselves without money and unattractive to the opposite sex.

So yes, I am blaming humans for the state of affairs we find ourselves in. A very small percent of the population owns a very large amount of the world's finances and they won't be giving it up any time soon.

Therego??

Why would a company do R & D if they then had to share the results with their rivals?

The primary duty of company directors is to maximise the value of the company.

When I go to work it is purely to earn money for me. Companies are no different.

I haven't read the full thread. What are the details of the cartel that is operating? What are the figures for ROCE on which your earlier statements are based?