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hi all- So I am the person who had and got rid of the smelly piano we got for $300!
I am glad we got rid of it as it was awful and now our house smells good again!

So now we really need to get a piano as I am ready to start my 5 year old on lessons. So we really don't want to spend much over $500.

I have a lead on one that looks good-- it is one hour and 20 minutes drive from me just to go check it out. We live rurally and there are not lots of options near us.

How does this one look: http://westernmass.craigslist.org/msg/5003026651.html

It seems like comparable ones are going for a much higher cost. Of course we have to make the effort to drive there and make sure it smells okay!

There is also this one:
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/msg/5030556525.html costs more but includes delivery.

My gut feeling is the Baldwin is better-- though I do like the newerness of the white one.

Which do you thin is better?

Check out the Baldwin. Don't even consider the Samick. For that kind of money if the strings aren't rusty you can't miss with a 20 year old Baldwin.

The opinion that will be most useful to you would be that of the piano tech you send to inspect the candidate instrument[s]. Try http://ptg.org to find one in the area. In the case of the Samick white, the description suggests that an existing tech knows the piano, and the seller might be willing to put you in touch. Though this would be economical--- free--- the more reliable report would be from the tech employed and paid for by you alone, who is representing your interest, not the seller's.

Your gut feeling about the Baldwin may be right, but it is 2 inches shorter than the Samick and has suffered damage to the soundboard/ribs. And, it is not in tune--- a big problem in evaluating it for touch, tone, and condition. Your tech might want to tune it to verify that the pinblock will hold a tuning. If you buy it, it will need several tunings anyway. Keep in mind that the memory of sellers regarding age and condition is notoriously failing. It is all very well that the finish polishes up well, but you are buying a musical instrument based on what is inside the case.

If you can get the serial numbers of these pianos, you may, at least, be able to find out the date of manufacture. I would suggest that a used piano no older than 15 years will have the best chance of having some musically significant life left in it. However, when it comes to used pianos, condition is everything. I'll give you a ballpark guess that an inspection for condition will run from $100 to $150, and a solid-gold guarantee that it will be well worth the money.

When employing a tech, you might as well ask, while you have them on the phone, how their sense of smell is. I don't think anyone will mind telling you.

Best of luck to you, and your young music student.

Casio Privia Series. After you get that Baldwin moved and tuned, you're looking at $750 total, plus as said above, its suffered not insignificant soundboard damage. For a five year old, a decent digital that has weighted action and is always in tune (very important for developing musicianship) is probably your best bet in this price range. My two cents within A440.

Greetings-
Regarding the Baldwin, I would first get the seller's tech on the phone to get impressions and ask the seller for pictures of the repairs on the ribs, which you can post here for opinions.

Best wishes-

we are trying to get it together to check out the Baldwin today. It is about an hour and a half drive and we are not super motivated--- so it remains to be seen if we will make it.

What is the deal with the possible damage to the back? I am not that picky as long as it sounds pretty good ( and doesn't smell at all!). Is this something to be concerned with?

And is the white piano just a cheap not good piano?

Is 20 years ( more like 25) a decent age for a piano? Is a Baldwin a good brand?
If it were closer to me I would check it out for sure- I just have to get up motivation to drive three hours round trip- just to basically see if it is decent or not.

Closer to me I have only so far seen too expensive or too junky pianos.

My very limited experience with Samick has been good. White pianos are often sold more as furniture, so they often do not get played much, and resell for less because the people who buy for furniture like to buy new.

I agree with Markarian. With your budget, assuming you don't have more money for repairs, tuning, and moving, a new digital like a Casio Privia px-150 is the way to go. Be sure to get a decent stand, adjustable bench, and an additional pedal that's more realistic. As an added bonus, this setup is also very portable.

Thanks everyone. So, I discovered that there is a piano store about an hour away from me. I spoke with the piano guy on the phone just now. He has about 78 used pianos there. He said about 15 of them are in my price range (600 or under thereabout). He said a lot, but not all, of the ones in my range are spinets. I am not sure how much that will matter to me. But the good thing is, I am going to probably go there today, rather than to the craigslist one. So I can look at and play 15 different ones and smell the- and decide! Plus, at the store they are all tuned and cleaned up- and they deliver (for $200). So that is a good plan.

Just don't forget that you will need to get it tuned once or twice a year. Factor that into your budget. If you aren't willing to pay for tuning and maintenance, you'd be better off with a digital. The fact that you want a piano for under $500 suggests to me that you won't be willing to pay for the maintenance. You'll have to pay a piano mover to move it too - unless the dealer is willing to throw that in for free, but I doubt it will be under $500 in that case.

well, I will do my best!

222, spinets are money sinks and have very poor action. I would still urge you to consider something electronic, they have gotten very good over the last ten years.

Not necessarily. I played on a Baldwin Acrosonic until I left for college and then for a decade later on in my life. Only when I was in my 50's did I get a Mason BB. I did just fine and the piano only had tunings once/year.

OTOH I agree that for $500 a digital at that price may be a better choice than most pianos one can find for that amount.

Thanks. I am not interested in a digital.

So=== I went to the piano store today, but was dismayed that all the pianos they had for $500 were OLD! Like from 1957, a few from the 1970-s, and one from 1986. It is making this Baldwin 1991 seem even more appealing- though we opted to go to the piano store for variety today and have not been able to see the 1991 Baldwin due to limited free time and distance.

So--- how much does age factor into a piano? I used to thin pianos can easily be decades old and be just fine. Now I am starting to think, the newer the better. Is this right?

And again, what about the 2003 samick I posted in the link? Also a bit far to drive and check out! But we could. Would it just have poor tone?

I don't need the tone to be amazing. I am not going to play a ton- just sometimes, and my son will learn on it. We really can't stretch the budget as we have a lot of other expenses right now.

I noticed when I tried out ten or so pianos in the store today that the sound quality varied greatly. But weirdly, even some of the more expensive pianos didn't sound that good. The smelly piano we got last month and got rid of actually had a better sound quality than a lot of the ones today!

So how much is age a factor in a piano? How old can a piano be and be good still? Should I try to get the newest one I can afford?

again this is the link to one that looks okay - though I have not seen it yet-- I like the newness of it. http://westernmass.craigslist.org/msg/5030556525.html

what can people tell me about this one?

That piano you list was an entry-level model from a company that was making primarily entry-level instruments at the time. The 42" size was the smallest available (spinets haven't been made for decades, thankfully), and without toe blocks, is not as stable on the floor as other pianos that have them.

The Baldwin you list doesn't exactly give me the "warm fuzzies", either. Needs tuning - so it's hard to evaluate the tone. Ribs separating from soundboard - is a problem that needs to be addressed, so you're going to need to spend additional $$ to get this piano into good playing condition.

I'm not interested in steering you in a bad direction, but think you NEED to play some $500-600 digitals before you just dismiss them, in comparison with these marginal verticals you're considering. Newer is usually better, but not always. If well cared-for (that's a big "if"), a good quality vertical piano (and that's another "if") could provide 50-80 years of usable service.

Maybe you could view this piano as a stepping stone to a better one eventually.

I'm not a fan of digitals - many are on stands which aren't secure enough, and often at the wrong height relative to the stool. And I've known too many people who bought one, played it for a short while, got bored & frustrated with it, fiddled with the buttons & additional sounds/effects etc - and put it in the corner to collect dust. Yes, I have played some which were OK - but they all had additional amplifier & speakers which trebled (or more) the cost.

I know many people who are very very happy with a fairly ordinary piano - like the ones you are talking about (Baldwin & Samick), or very much older. They get them tuned every year (or 2+).

The ones in the piano store - possibly may be poorer than the 2 on Craigslist, as the dealer needs to make some profit in the deal (otherwise he can't continue in business), and possibly had some minimal repairs or tuning carried out - not sure if it includes delivery too. But it's amazing what you can find in a store of mixed old pianos - playing each one seriously for a minute or 2, you could find one which suits you.

The ones on Craiglist may be subject to negotiation as well. However, I'd definitely talk to a technician about them - at least the one who has dealt with the piano before (maybe he would discuss it free?) but probably better still by one representing you.

I'd be inclined to think that Baldwin has a better reputation than Samick - but the Samick is a more recent piano. I've played some recent Samicks and they're quite reasonable pianos. There has been talk about white pianos tending to not hold their value as well (particularly with grand pianos), which could be a reason for its reasonable price. They could also need to sell it quickly for some other reason (like moving house). Only a technician could advise categorically about the damage to the back - it may still be playable quite well, and not effect its longevity - possibly. Like driving a car with a scar down the side, maybe. So, for $500 you could take a punt if it plays well. Give it a solid playing, loud and soft, play it for long enough to convince yourself that you could go on playing for as long as you would if you had it home. And if you enjoy it - that's what you're looking for.

If it doesn't - keep watching Craigslist etc - I believer there are often pianos which come up.

Greetings,
I would not put age as the primary factor, so no, I would not necessarily get the newest one I could afford. I didn't.

To answer your question, How old can a piano be and be good still?, the result will look like a statistical curve. It can be 100 years old, but you will find very few good ones at that age.

The older it is, the higher probability is was abused or excessively weathered (humidity, heat, light, etc) somewhere in its life, and the higher probability some parts are worn or degraded with age. In the case of an older piano, you have to understand (hired or from your own knowledge) the state of the piano you are considering - especially high cost problems, and then depending on the situation, you have to allow budget to deal with items that need fixing. It is much better to understand any of those costs before the piano purchase.



You have the professional opinion of Ms Phillips above.

Best wishes-

Woops, sorry - I'd missed Sally's post above - which I'd definitely take note of.

The dealer has to stay in business. You'll get an older piano for your $500 but you'll get to try it out in a convenient showroom, in tune and working properly etc.


Others have answered this question well.
As an example, I have a 90-year-old piano which is mechanically worn out from use AND has some problems with wood splitting from age / environment. It would need a full rebuild to sound good and play well again, and that would cost more than a brand new piano.


That's why people on this forum always recommend trying a lot of different pianos. That experience at the store hopefully helped clarify your own preferences and what your budget will buy you.
There's no one correct answer because there are a lot of tradeoffs and personal preferences involved. I think you should buy the tallest, newest piano you can afford which plays and sounds good to you, assuming it isn't worn out or defective or known to be problematic. Easy.

I've tried new Kohler & Campbell pianos like that white one you posted, and I felt they reflected their price (inexpensive). Maybe your $500 would be better spent on an older but nicer instrument. Or a digital, if you hadn't said no digitals...