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#2423858 - Yesterday at 12:45 PM 'More piano' under a grand
Cue Zephyr Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Howdy folks,

Grand, see what I did there? laugh

Do mind it's in euros.

So I was looking at the P-115, F-20, ES-100 and PX-350 price range and for some reason started checking out the PX-5S (€900). Now, that thing has heaps of features but in the end still has the same keybed and core piano sound, albeit a lot more modifiable.

Is there anything that strips away many of the features but gives you more piano? For under a thousand?

Cheers.

CZ
_________________________
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.

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#2423878 - Yesterday at 01:55 PM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
Alexander Borro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/14
Posts: 267
Loc: UK
While it is often said the piano sounds are the same for the px-150 350 and that's true for the samples, the higher end models like the one I have CN 450, which is the same as the PX-850 does (except for the cabinet) does have a more advanced form of string resonance, as well as the lid simulator to change the sound, so they are not exactly the same in terms of what the sound generator can do.

Now whether such features matter is for you to decide. Without checking I would have thought the px-5s also has those extra features being the top end model for a stage piano, and more, such as being able to apply EQ as well, I think the 150/350 does not have some of those things (IIRC), though no half pedalling on the PX-5S IIRC.

You'll have to check the specs on the Casio website, it is all there in detail.

Other than that I can't help you. All I have experience is my own Casio. Starting out, for me anyway I find it a great feeling keyboard a year on to play, but I don't know any different, so that is not going to tell you much smile

The sound samples build into the Casio for me are now relatively unimportant with software as an alternative option, however it is nice to have just something you can switch on instantly and play, so I do use it from time to time, but less and less I find.

In you other thread you said you are fine with a DAW and have that already and familiar with it. I'd still probably go with the 150 personally if you end up going with the Casio, or the 160 if available. All those extra piano sound features I mentioned will be irrelevant in that case anyway.

Personally I don't think the other sounds besides the piano are that good on my Celviano like the strings for example, harpsichord etc compared to what I have now in software, but this is something that Casio worked on and improved with the 60 range.

Have fun buying smile


Edited by Alexander Borro (Yesterday at 01:56 PM)
_________________________
started June 2014, self teacher.
Books: Barratt classic piano course book 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various others
Hardware: Casio Celviano AP 450 & various peripherals:
Software: Ivory American D, Pianoteq, The Giant, Cubase 7 elements.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro

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#2423935 - Yesterday at 05:02 PM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 472
What else do you need in addition to the action and main piano library?
Is it for home or for stage?

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#2423939 - Yesterday at 05:14 PM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3641
Originally Posted By Cue Zephyr
Is there anything that strips away many of the features but gives you more piano? For under a thousand?

Some of the models you listed are pretty bare bones as it is. But for most piano at lowest cost, you could get something like a PX-150 or P-35, and drive a high quality software piano in your computer, assuming you already have a suitable computer.

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#2423975 - Yesterday at 07:09 PM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: anotherscott]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1923
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By anotherscott
...
Some of the models you listed are pretty bare bones as it is. But for most piano at lowest cost, you could get something like a PX-150 or P-35, and drive a high quality software piano in your computer, assuming you already have a suitable computer.


+1.

I may be biased by my own choices.
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / ZXA1 speaker

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#2424167 - Today at 07:23 AM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
Cue Zephyr Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Bare bones is fine. I wish there was a segment where stuff was still bare bones where the features only get better instead of more when the price went up.

Use will be home/ studio, but stage may be a possibility at some point.

The lack of half-pedaling or tri-pedal support on the PX-5S is a bit of a bummer, but maybe not as much as I think it is. The guy from the store I went to to ask about DPs said the same.

Not necessarily needing a DAW is very important to me, but for recording, a DAW with VST is fine.

What I was hoping to find in the slightly higher price bracket was perhaps better hardware (key action and general wuality) with a better base piano tone but none or less of the bells and whistles.
_________________________
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.

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#2424174 - Today at 08:05 AM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3641
Originally Posted By Cue Zephyr
Bare bones is fine. I wish there was a segment where stuff was still bare bones where the features only get better instead of more when the price went up.

I think the issue is that, once there is some more budget in making the device, the incremental manufacturing cost of throwing in some of the features is relatively small, while making the board atractive to a larger group of potential buyers. Still, there are some boards for purists, higher priced boards where the non-piano features are pretty minimal, like the Kawai MP11, Nord Piano 2 (or even more so, the original Nord Piano), Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CP1 (though now discontinued). But that purist market is relatively small. People who want no sounds/features except great piano still come out ahead using a computer, so I think that also motivates manufacturers to include other features in their boards.

Originally Posted By Cue Zephyr
The lack of half-pedaling or tri-pedal support on the PX-5S is a bit of a bummer, but maybe not as much as I think it is. The guy from the store I went to to ask about DPs said the same.

I think it's particularly unessential for live gigging, unless maybe you're doing solo piano. It's more important for home/recording work... and there you have the benefit again of the availbility of software pianos you can trigger from the same board.

Originally Posted By Cue Zephyr
What I was hoping to find in the slightly higher price bracket was perhaps better hardware (key action and general wuality) with a better base piano tone but none or less of the bells and whistles.

Casio doesn't make a better action (nor a better base piano tone, for that matter). So you can get their best action and few bells and whistles in the PX-150, or the best action plus more bells and whistles in their higher priced models. (That said, IMO, the PX-5S is a significantly better piano than the lower priced models, even though it has the same basic tone (and despite lacking half-pedaling), for reasons discussed elsewhere. Maybe you'd like the things that make it a better piano in a lower priced model, but maybe it wouldn't end up all that much cheaper.)

Kawai has a pretty minimal model with their low end action/sound in the ES100, and a pretty minimal model with high end action/sound in the MP11, so they're covered pretty well.

But really it all comes down to the fact that these brands all need to compete with each other in the market, and none of us can get boards custom made to our specs. They are putting in features at prices that they think will give them competitive advantages to attract more customers. Since none of them sound as good as a computer, they need to compete other ways. The alternate approach has only been taken by Kawai with the VPC, allowing you to basically buy nothing *but* their high quality action, and prompting you to mate it with whatever sound you like best.

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#2424178 - Today at 08:29 AM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
Cue Zephyr Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Eindhoven, Netherlands
anotherscott,

Gotcha! THat was very helpful. Thank you so much.

Since all these companies are competing, it basically means it mostly comes down to what features you want and taste, right? So every offering from the manufacturers, provided it's in the same general price range, they're all perfectly valid choices.

I found a video yesterday where the PX-5S took on the Nord Stage 2 at more than double the price. They both sounded exceptional and I gotta say, at the price the PX-5S is at, it's very good indeed.
_________________________
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.

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#2424182 - Today at 08:40 AM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
Groove On Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/20/15
Posts: 167
For me the Yamaha P-255 hits the sweet spot for most piano for the buck a little more expensive, but you get the better keyboard, polyphony, sensors and speakers. Worth a look.
_________________________
The question is, am I making music or just playing a bunch of notes?

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#2424212 - Today at 10:30 AM Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
Cue Zephyr Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Eindhoven, Netherlands
The PX-5S is already a stretch. Sadly, the P-255 falls quite far from that price range. frown
_________________________
Guitar, mandolin and banjo player, hobbyist producer.

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#2424230 - 33 minutes 43 seconds ago Re: 'More piano' under a grand [Re: Cue Zephyr]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 472
Keep your eye on eBay.
In the UK there is one up "Buy it Now" today for £644.41
PX-5S on eBay.uk

A lot of pros in the US are giving the PX-5S a try for its weight, price, feature set. Some love it, and some decide to sell pretty quick because although its a great keyboard for the price, it's not quite what they are used to.
PX-5S for sale on eBay

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