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#2426521 - Yesterday at 03:05 PM Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others
Schick Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/15
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
I realize this forum isn't here to assist me on every issue, I just need a pointer on what the issue may be related to, so I can begin research in the right direction.

The key sounds weak. It needs to be struck (correct word?) much harder to get a volume equal to others.
Things of note:

1. It has a newer hammer. One of two in the complete set.

2. If I press the keystick and hold it, the hammer remains much further forward than any of the others. Appears as only a centimeter or so from the strings, while it neighbours are at least double that.

3. While the bridle strap is old, it is intact.

4. The capstan screw appears to be at the same height as the others.

5. The keystick moves freely.

My apologies about the info I provided. I am unsure what other data to include. Thanks for any advice as to where to start looking/researching.
_________________________
The other side of 50, and a piano and keyboard newbie.
http://www.kevinschick.com

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#2426647 - Yesterday at 05:30 PM Re: Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others [Re: Schick]
David Boyce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Scotland
Check
1) the backcheck - has it got pushed forward somehow, or is it in line with its neighbours at rest?
2) that the jack flange is secure in the wippen and hasn't risen out of it due to the glue joint failing
3) that the key is level with its neighbours and that the key depresses by only the same amount as its neighbours (if the front rail washer is moth-eaten away you will have too much 'dip')
4) that something odd hasn't happened with the catcher buckskin or the hammer butt notch buckskin and the hammer butt notch felt pad that the jack tip rests on.

Is the new hammer the right size?

Two centimeters is too much for the checking distance of the other keys - it should be around 15mm or 5/8".


Edited by David Boyce (Yesterday at 05:31 PM)

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#2426670 - Yesterday at 05:55 PM Re: Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others [Re: David Boyce]
Schick Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/15
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By David Boyce
Check
1) the backcheck - has it got pushed forward somehow, or is it in line with its neighbours at rest?
2) that the jack flange is secure in the wippen and hasn't risen out of it due to the glue joint failing
3) that the key is level with its neighbours and that the key depresses by only the same amount as its neighbours (if the front rail washer is moth-eaten away you will have too much 'dip')
4) that something odd hasn't happened with the catcher buckskin or the hammer butt notch buckskin and the hammer butt notch felt pad that the jack tip rests on.

Is the new hammer the right size?

Two centimeters is too much for the checking distance of the other keys - it should be around 15mm or 5/8".


The backcheck is in line with its neighbours. Quite close, in fact.

The jack flange seems fine looking quite solid. It also looks very much like its neighbours.

Key leveling. The washers on the front rail seems to be in about the same shape, fair. the balance rail felt is a mess, with only a small bit of the washer remaining. Sadly it very similar to most of the washers I have examined onthe balance rail. Looks like while the keys seem level, all the washers will have to be replaced. Time for me to save, and then source out a few kits.

The catcher buckskin and hammer butt buckskin seem okay, or at least similar to the neighbouring keys. The hammer butt felt seems okay as well. Too be frank, I know so little and will have to educate my self more in determining what conditions to recognize as bad. I don't know how you guys do it. Just getting a good look while the action is in place is tough. :-)

The new hammer extends back (towards) the strings about .15 - .2 inches further. The replacement hammer is about .12 inches shorter than the originals.
Pictures would be handy, but I have just taken my camera in for warranty repair, and am in the process of finding a loaner.

I will try and put a few images up later.

Thank you for responding.


Edited by Schick (Yesterday at 06:11 PM)
_________________________
The other side of 50, and a piano and keyboard newbie.
http://www.kevinschick.com

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#2426675 - Yesterday at 05:57 PM Re: Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others [Re: Schick]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22476
Loc: Oakland
It is difficult to make hammers from different sets sound the same.
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Semipro Tech

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#2426705 - Yesterday at 07:06 PM Re: Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others [Re: Schick]
Schick Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/15
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
Some pics. Looks like I have some study ahead of me. Picture quality is not great, as I was forced to borrow my sons camera. Mine went in for warranty today.

The rails are in need of some serious work. The balance rail washers are the worst.


This washed out image (sorry) does not show much.


The hammer in question.


Hammer side by side. The problematic hammer is on the right. This spliced image is with both hammers full forward as I push up on the wippens. The right hammer is touching a bit,


Not sure if the oics help at all.

I am wondering if I should pull the action when I decide to start repairing some hopefully easy things (I am so naive). The piano needs a serious tuning, and I am in the middle of nowhere, I would hate to pay extra for the tuner to come all this way and have to deal with some of the issues such as this quieter key, and the straps and washers, etc.

Maybe I am too foolish to realize I am in over my head. I am diving in to try and learn elements of a profession that clearly takes years to learn.

I mean no offense to the pros. I am simply remote from services and trying my best. I hope you all understand my respect for you all.
_________________________
The other side of 50, and a piano and keyboard newbie.
http://www.kevinschick.com

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#2426861 - Today at 09:44 AM Re: Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others [Re: Schick]
Steve Senseney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/14
Posts: 53
In the last two pictures, it looks like the hammer is longer, and has less distance from the string.

This means it will have less power as it strikes the string, and will be somewhat less volume.

It increase the strike distance, you might remove the hammer, plug the original hole, and redrill at the correct distance.

With a couple of new hammers, their weight, and felt hardness may be different than the originals, and it may be difficult to match the volume and tone easily.


Edited by Steve Senseney (Today at 09:45 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#2426910 - 7 minutes 35 seconds ago Re: Key requires more velocity to achieve same volume as others [Re: Steve Senseney]
Schick Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/15
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By Steve Senseney
In the last two pictures, it looks like the hammer is longer, and has less distance from the string.

This means it will have less power as it strikes the string, and will be somewhat less volume.

It increase the strike distance, you might remove the hammer, plug the original hole, and redrill at the correct distance.

With a couple of new hammers, their weight, and felt hardness may be different than the originals, and it may be difficult to match the volume and tone easily.


I may have o do some research and see how to remove the entire assembly for that key, if needed. It is odd that the rear of the hammer is forward as well.

Is the entire group of parts for one key referred to as a hammer assembly?
_________________________
The other side of 50, and a piano and keyboard newbie.
http://www.kevinschick.com

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