Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Playing with both hands together

Ah, thank you, qazsedcft.

Ray OS

I have this problem frequently and the best thing to do is to work on one hand separately, then work on the other hand separately and then very slowly try playing both hands together note by note.

The key is to slow the song way, way down and count it out if you need to. Every time I have a rhythm problem or two hand problem this technique will generally solve it.

Good Luck!

Hi dmd,

I haven't got up to the bit where he explains playing with both hands yet and examines how to tackle the Minuet.

I thought it would be helpful to pick forum brains on these areas as well as learning from Jaak.

Perhaps the way to start learning the minuet is first to learn the series of skills that Jaak teaches before getting to the minuet.

+1

Learning the piano is a long hard slog. It takes time to develop the skills to do it well. It's a mistake, imo, to try to rush into repertoire before you've built the skills needed to tackle that repertoire. From what I've read, Jaak's course is systematic and actually pretty streamlined so that you're playing real music sooner rather than later. Don't rush through it. Work the program. You'll struggle so much less and you'll be far less likely to develop bad habits that you have to deprogram later. In essence, by trying to go too fast, you can actually set yourself back and end up making slower progress than you would have made if you just followed the plan.

So glad I am not alone, losing my mind is exactly how it feels at the moment as I attempt my second invention.

As everyone has said Bach looks easy on paper but the devil is in the detail.

earlofmar, which invention are you learning? Which was your first invention?

The greatest challenge you will have in your journey is picking a direction and staying with it.

It has been my observation that those students that just do what they are told to do, almost robotically, week after week, lesson by lesson, end up with (BY FAR) the best result.

I have heard complete beginners after only 1 or 2 years of lessons play music that is absolutely beautiful to hear.

AND ... I have heard those that have been working on things (their way) for 10 years or more and they still can't play in a manner that is pleasant to listen to.

So, my advice would be to follow the suggestions of this "Jaak" guy and try not to jump around with your "enhancements". It will be difficult and perhaps a little boring, at times, but you need to trust in the process.

It is not easy, I know ... but it seems to work the best. At least that has been my observation.

Good Luck

My advice would be to never play anything hands separately more than two or three times, just to learn what the notes are. Thereafter, always practice hands together.

If you can't play the piece you want hands together, work on something easier, take it slower, and build up to it, but always hands together. I'm still having trouble with the one thing I tried HS on.

The first thing I do with a new piece is play it hands separately. My goal is to find the best fingering and write it on the score if it's not obvious. Those first few times HS allow me to nail down the fingering, hear the melody (usually RH) and scope out the chords and leaps (LH, generally). After that, hands together. SLOW. Often one hand will help the other--for example, in a waltz the left hand will keep the beat while the RH does the melody. Like most things in piano, there is no shortcut or special sauce. Practice, patience, perseverance.

I agree with others who have said save Bach for later. I am currently learning the Two-Part Inventions. They are little stealth bombs.

PianoStudent88, my first Invention was No 1 and now I am working on No 2 In the scale of the inventions No 1 is the easiest following by No 2 and in a grading level both should be the same. However I am finding No 2 a lot more difficult but perversely fun.

Stubbie, which Inventions are you working on? I started with #1 in C major, and then added #9 in F minor.

earlofmar, I'll have to look at #2. I'm not sure my teacher is choosing them for me in easiness order. Or maybe she thinks I can handle all of them, in any order (gulp). But I do love Bach.

I see no reason to do No 9 next either but your teacher obviously believes you can handle it. This is one list of the Inventions sorted in difficulty.

Grade Composer Composition
5 Bach Invention 01
5 Bach Invention 02
5 Bach Invention 04
5 Bach Invention 08
5 Bach Invention 10
5 Bach Invention 13
5 Bach Invention 14
6 Bach Invention 03
6 Bach Invention 05
6 Bach Invention 06
6 Bach Invention 07
6 Bach Invention 09
7 Bach Invention 11
7 Bach Invention 12
7 Bach Invention 15

Just looked at No 9 and had a listen and obviously can see why your teacher chose it, it looks so easy (on paper)

PS88, the order my teacher has me doing them is: #1, #4, #8, #14, #13. So far, #4 and #8 have been the (relatively) easier ones for me.

I haven't taken any of these to performance level. My guess is that my teacher will have me do what she said her teacher did: after she finished with the set, she started over. There's enough depth and complexity in Bach to stand up to that kind of repetition.

Thank you, Don (dmd). I work in the media and we tend to get information from lots of sources and then make sense of it. Maybe that's the way I've been approaching piano - sample lots of information and then absorb and digest it to come to a conclusion.
I suppose I sub-consciously drew a parallel with learning to drive. You do it again and again and again, make an awful lot of mistakes, but eventually you work through those so you do it without thinking. It becomes instinct.
This approach is not reaping benefits with music.
I do have faith in Jaak's methods and am happy to follow through with them.

Ray OS, if you are following Jaak's course, then you should follow it in the manner and order that he presents. He is not so much teaching a piece, as using the piece to develop skills, so following what he is teaching - and taking the time to master each skill as much as possible is crucial. One thing builds on the next.

I'm looking at the lesson right now. In the first one, he dwells only one or two measures, and he reduces that to four notes at one point. The movements that were in the first free section are now being used and refined. You should practice in as much detail, dividing up your practice into smaller mini sessions, and building these things every day.

If you ask for advice in the forum, you might get all kinds of ideas of different ways of approaching the piece, but you will no longer be following the series that is building the skills through the piece.

Actually your analogy of driving also applies, because the skills he teaches first cannot be perfected at one time. He refines it along the way, and keeps bringing those skills back in various forms. It's a particular way of teaching.

Thanks, Keystring. I appreciate the advice.

I'm really struggling with playing with both hands together as well; I gather that this is a common issue for beginner piano players so I don't feel too foolish at the moment.

I've decided that I'm going to try to play this to get over this hurdle: http://makingmusicfun.net/htm/f_printit_free_printable_sheet_music/adeste-fideles-piano-solo.htm

It doesn't look too complex, but the left hand-right hand actions are sufficiently different that I figure if I can manage to play this properly then I'll be in better form than I can manage right now.

I can play either part (left or right) separately without any particular difficulty, but when I try to play both parts together I suddenly can't play either one unless I play at about 15 beats per minute and even then I can't do it correctly for more than one or two measures at a time. Oh well. I just found my project for this week, I think.

Playing HS and playing HT are two very different things, and one does not let you do the other.

The trick to playing HT is to NOT try to play 2 different things at the same time. That does not work. What you need to do is think of any given motion as ONE thing.

So, you need to play say RH 1st, 2nd and 3rd finger in a bar. At the same time you need to play LH 5th, 3rd and 1st finger. You learn to play each hand. Easy. Then you try to do it at the same time. Impossible (at first).

What you do is play TWO notes, one in each hand, thinking of that as ONE motion, ONE thing. Step one: Play RH 1st and LH 5th at the same time. Easy. Do it till it's ONE motion. Step two: Play RH 2nd and LH 3rd at the same time. Equally easy. Repeat till it's ONE motion. Then try to put Step one and two together, it's only two motions, one after the other. Not hard. Then learn step 3: RH 3rd and LH 1st in the same way. Add to the steps one and two. Continue onwards, one motion at a time.

Very simple example, but the principle applies.

PS... 15 beats per minute might even be racing at this stage. How about 2 beats per minute? Starting SLOW is the key, and slow means SLOOOOOOOOOW.